Zone1 is the church built upon Peter? HELL NO

[Cougarbear]

The "stupid" thing is inmyour case that you said with your statement only that you will ignore everything what someone else is saying - even when he would say "I have a message from god for you". But you do not ignore Joseph Smith when he says "I am a messenger of god".

And you said her with this statement only that the Cathlich chruhc is eveiel because Gutenberg opened the way for mass-printings and the "infornaition age". The processor you use is by the way also a print product. Now tell me please why or how PC's make Catholics evil.

Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who ushered in the last dispensation before the fulness of time. He was the one the Lord chose to restore his Church and reintroduce all the ordinances and doctrines Christ gave the early apostles in His days on earth. Through vain traditions and denial the power of the Priesthood, the bishops after Paul and John were gone, changed the everlasting gospel and the ordinations of the Priesthood. Doctrines and ordinances were lost. Through Joseph Smith, the book of Joseph was found and translated into the Book of Mormon. The prophecy of Isaiah 29 was fulfilled. The doctrine was restored. And, to answer the question why I know this to be true? The Holy Ghost has opened my heart, eyes and mind to this truth.

What is the “PC” you are referring to? Some kind of Catholic tradition or something?

 

[zaangalewa]

Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God

Nice that you say so - but what means this for me? Nothing or nothing? You say this to yourselve.

who ushered in the last dispensation before the fulness of time. He was the one the Lord chose to restore his Church and reintroduce all the ordinances and doctrines Christ gave the early apostles in His days on earth. Through vain traditions and denial the power of the Priesthood, the bishops after Paul and John were gone, changed the everlasting gospel and the ordinations of the Priesthood. Doctrines and ordinances were lost. Through Joseph Smith, the book of Joseph was found and translated into the Book of Mormon. The prophecy of Isaiah 29 was fulfilled. The doctrine was restored. And, to answer the question why I know this to be true? The Holy Ghost has opened my heart, eyes and mind to this truth.

Sigh. What a lot of bullshit. Even if anything would be true what you say here - it is not - what would it justify? If I would be the devil personally - how would this make you to a good person?

What is the “PC” you are referring to?

PC= personal computer. An invention of IBM as far as I know.

Some kind of Catholic tradition or something?

 

[ding]

PC= personal computer. An invention of IBM as far as I know.

MITS co-founder Ed Roberts invented the Altair 8800 — which sold for $297, or $395 with a case — and coined the term “personal computer”.

 

[hadit]

Are you aware of God telling people to ask a certain person to pray (i.e. intercessory prayers) for them, because God says he hears the prayers of his servants. God told Job's friends to have Job pray for them; someone else was directed to ask Abraham to pray for him. Do you recall God called Jeremiah as a prophet, giving him a well-trained tongue? Do you recall the many times Jeremiah interceded for Israel...all through the power of God.

You summarily dismiss God's power over Mary, saying Mary can't intercede in so many prayers. In other words, you believe God cannot empower Mary to be one of the intercessors bringing prayers before him. Scripture tells us the value of the prayers of a righteous man. Yet you wish to summarily dismiss the intercessory prayers of a woman filled with God's grace. Despite what Jesus said about God being God of the living, you seem to believe those who have passed on are lifeless.

Finally, you're getting to the meat of the argument. You claim, without Scriptural evidence, that Mary and the Saints (terrible name for a rock band) are divinely empowered to hear millions of prayers simultaneously. Good, that's what I've been asking about this whole time. It's not Biblical that they have been so empowered, it's a church tradition, and when tradition meets Scripture, tradition takes a back seat. If I recall correctly, you don't agree with that. And, of course, if they have been so empowered, do ALL those who die in Christ also get the same power to hear and discern such prayers from everyone, and if so, why do you not call on the ENTIRE body of Christ, including ALL those who have passed on, instead of just Mary and the Saints? This is not asked mockingly, it is asked sincerely, because you keep claiming the entire body of Christ includes those who have passed on. You also say that they communicate with you, so why do you focus only on a handful instead of all of them? It would seem to me FAR more powerful to call on the ENTIRE body to pray instead of just your congregation and M&S.

I don't get you. You argue the limits of God's power.

No, I ask for Scriptural evidence that God has so empowered people. I know, for example, that the apostles raised people from the dead. Obviously, they were empowered to do so, and equally obviously, God can and does grant people power to do His will. That does not translate, however, into an entire belief system being valid without Scriptural backing. Now, I expect you to read that and NOT come back claiming that I don't believe God grants people power to do His will.

You argue the limits of those who have passed on. You argue the limits of Mary. One of my favorite quotes: 'Those who argue for limitations get to keep them."

I DO argue the limits of those who have passed on, because there is no Scriptural backing for the idea that they are not completely overwhelmed in the presence of Christ and therefore not listening to the prayers of millions. God could easily grant them the power to do anything He wants them to do, but it's not limiting Him to ask for Scriptural backing for the idea.

No one has to respond to Mary's request of joining with her to pray for peace and forgiveness. No one is required to ask Mary, or anyone who has passed on, to intercede for them. No one is required to pray for those who have passed on. Obviously God has not asked you to do any of these. Simply because he has not asked you is not sufficient reasoning for you to declare that since God never asked any of this of you, it means he has never asked this of anyone else, either. You are certain of this....aren't you?

You have to understand something about me. I was raised in a church environment that included a LOT of traditions, traditions that were acknowledged as such, yet unconsciously sometimes given the same level of authority as the Bible. As a result, portions of Scripture were either ignored or rarely talked about because they were inconvenient to those traditions. I have been on a life-long quest to understand and embrace the bedrock truth of Christianity, and that requires looking at everything I believe and holding it up to Scripture for either validation or rejection, as well as being willing to be humbled by the Holy Spirit in understanding what God wants me to hear from it. In so doing, I have found things that were GOOD, and served a GOOD purpose to someone in a by-gone era, but were not commanded by God, and sometimes hinder His will from being done today. That means when I look at a heavily tradition bound body such as the Catholic Church, where tradition can easily over-take Scripture in importance and authority, I am skeptical, and I extend that skepticism to every denomination. I've not found one yet that is completely and totally true only to Scripture and the Holy Spirit. Until we can openly and honestly acknowledge that God's kingdom extends far beyond man-made denominational barriers, we artificially limit His kingdom.

One very basic thing that has to do with Mary, her virginity. Catholic Church tradition (to the best of my knowledge) holds that she was a virgin her entire life. That's not only an extra-Biblical idea, but one that flies in the face of actual Scripture. When you have to explain away actual Scripture or invent from nothing other children from another mother to hold onto a tradition, there is a problem. That is why I find it extremely difficult to accept your traditions as more authoritative than actual Scripture and am very skeptical that Mary is somehow elevated to the level of super-intercessor. Again, I ask, why do you only ask HER to pray with you and not ALL those who have passed on?

 

[Meriweather]

Finally, you're getting to the meat of the argument. You claim, without Scriptural evidence, that Mary and the Saints (terrible name for a rock band) are divinely empowered to hear millions of prayers simultaneously. Good, that's what I've been asking about this whole time. It's not Biblical that they have been so empowered, it's a church tradition, and when tradition meets Scripture, tradition takes a back seat. If I recall correctly, you don't agree with that. And, of course, if they have been so empowered, do ALL those who die in Christ also get the same power to hear and discern such prayers from everyone, and if so, why do you not call on the ENTIRE body of Christ, including ALL those who have passed on, instead of just Mary and the Saints? This is not asked mockingly, it is asked sincerely, because you keep claiming the entire body of Christ includes those who have passed on. You also say that they communicate with you, so why do you focus only on a handful instead of all of them? It would seem to me FAR more powerful to call on the ENTIRE body to pray instead of just your congregation and M&S.

Bible, tradition, experience.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I ask for Scriptural evidence that God has so empowered people. I know, for example, that the apostles raised people from the dead. Obviously, they were empowered to do so, and equally obviously, God can and does grant people power to do His will. That does not translate, however, into an entire belief system being valid without Scriptural backing. Now, I expect you to read that and NOT come back claiming that I don't believe God grants people power to do His will.

I read it and understand that scripture is also one of the things you limit.

 

[Meriweather]

I DO argue the limits of those who have passed on, because there is no Scriptural backing for the idea that they are not completely overwhelmed in the presence of Christ and therefore not listening to the prayers of millions. God could easily grant them the power to do anything He wants them to do, but it's not limiting Him to ask for Scriptural backing for the idea.

Ever color outside the box? Ever research Christian experiences?

 

[Meriweather]

one that flies in the face of actual Scripture

No, it doesn't.

 

[ding]

Finally, you're getting to the meat of the argument. You claim, without Scriptural evidence, that Mary and the Saints (terrible name for a rock band) are divinely empowered to hear millions of prayers simultaneously. Good, that's what I've been asking about this whole time. It's not Biblical that they have been so empowered, it's a church tradition, and when tradition meets Scripture, tradition takes a back seat. If I recall correctly, you don't agree with that. And, of course, if they have been so empowered, do ALL those who die in Christ also get the same power to hear and discern such prayers from everyone, and if so, why do you not call on the ENTIRE body of Christ, including ALL those who have passed on, instead of just Mary and the Saints? This is not asked mockingly, it is asked sincerely, because you keep claiming the entire body of Christ includes those who have passed on. You also say that they communicate with you, so why do you focus only on a handful instead of all of them? It would seem to me FAR more powerful to call on the ENTIRE body to pray instead of just your congregation and M&S.

No, I ask for Scriptural evidence that God has so empowered people. I know, for example, that the apostles raised people from the dead. Obviously, they were empowered to do so, and equally obviously, God can and does grant people power to do His will. That does not translate, however, into an entire belief system being valid without Scriptural backing. Now, I expect you to read that and NOT come back claiming that I don't believe God grants people power to do His will.

I DO argue the limits of those who have passed on, because there is no Scriptural backing for the idea that they are not completely overwhelmed in the presence of Christ and therefore not listening to the prayers of millions. God could easily grant them the power to do anything He wants them to do, but it's not limiting Him to ask for Scriptural backing for the idea.

You have to understand something about me. I was raised in a church environment that included a LOT of traditions, traditions that were acknowledged as such, yet unconsciously sometimes given the same level of authority as the Bible. As a result, portions of Scripture were either ignored or rarely talked about because they were inconvenient to those traditions. I have been on a life-long quest to understand and embrace the bedrock truth of Christianity, and that requires looking at everything I believe and holding it up to Scripture for either validation or rejection, as well as being willing to be humbled by the Holy Spirit in understanding what God wants me to hear from it. In so doing, I have found things that were GOOD, and served a GOOD purpose to someone in a by-gone era, but were not commanded by God, and sometimes hinder His will from being done today. That means when I look at a heavily tradition bound body such as the Catholic Church, where tradition can easily over-take Scripture in importance and authority, I am skeptical, and I extend that skepticism to every denomination. I've not found one yet that is completely and totally true only to Scripture and the Holy Spirit. Until we can openly and honestly acknowledge that God's kingdom extends far beyond man-made denominational barriers, we artificially limit His kingdom.

One very basic thing that has to do with Mary, her virginity. Catholic Church tradition (to the best of my knowledge) holds that she was a virgin her entire life. That's not only an extra-Biblical idea, but one that flies in the face of actual Scripture. When you have to explain away actual Scripture or invent from nothing other children from another mother to hold onto a tradition, there is a problem. That is why I find it extremely difficult to accept your traditions as more authoritative than actual Scripture and am very skeptical that Mary is somehow elevated to the level of super-intercessor. Again, I ask, why do you only ask HER to pray with you and not ALL those who have passed on?

Why do you think people visit the gravesites of the ones they loved and talk to them?

 

[Cougarbear]

Nice that you say so - but what means this for me? Nothing or nothing? You say this to yourselve.



Sigh. What a lot of bullshit. Even if anything would be true what you say here - it is not - what would it justify? If I would be the devil personally - how would this make you to a good person?



PC= personal computer. An invention of IBM as far as I know.

The only thing worth responding to is the fact I know you know my testimony is true. What is required is for you to put this to the test and receive your own testimony by the Holy Ghost. You cannot exist forever on borrowed testimony. Connect with our missionaries from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in your city. They will lay out the only prescribed method to know if it is true starting from James 1:5-9. Then, once you read The Book of Mormon, similar plus additional instructions. Without this, your words to me mean nothing because I’ve gone through this process of knowing and conversion. May God teach you patience.

 

[hadit]

Bible, tradition, experience.

Again, why not ask the ENTIRE body? Why limit it to just M&S? It would seem that YOU are now limiting God instead of me.

 

[hadit]

I read it and understand that scripture is also one of the things you limit.

I do not support things that violate Scripture, that is true.

 

[hadit]

Ever color outside the box? Ever research Christian experiences?

An entire belief system should have more than some peoples' experiences in support of it.

 

[hadit]

Why do you think people visit the gravesites of the ones they loved and talk to them?

Because they miss their loved ones, and it can be a therapeutic experience for them. Some may believe their loved ones can hear them, but I guarantee they'd run the other way if their loved ones showed up and started talking to them.

 

[hadit]

No, it doesn't.

I've read the Scriptures, and it does. Like I said, when you have to invent things to explain away plain Scripture, there's a problem.

 

[ding]

Because they miss their loved ones, and it can be a therapeutic experience for them. Some may believe their loved ones can hear them, but I guarantee they'd run the other way if their loved ones showed up and started talking to them.

But you only have an issue if they are Catholic, right?

 

[ding]

Because they miss their loved ones, and it can be a therapeutic experience for them. Some may believe their loved ones can hear them, but I guarantee they'd run the other way if their loved ones showed up and started talking to them.

Does God hear them when they do that? And since God knows they were going to do that before and when their loved ones died, isn't that an appeal to God for mercy on their souls? Or do you believe God knowing the future or hearing appeals for different outcomes isn't biblical?

 

[hadit]

But you only have an issue if they are Catholic, right?

Why would you think that?

 

[ding]

Why would you think that?

Because it seems like you have an ax to grind.

 

[hadit]

Does God hear them when they do that? And since God knows they were going to do that before and when their loved ones died, isn't that an appeal to God for mercy on their souls?

No, it's simply speaking at the grave of a loved one that's moved on, something that can be very therapeutic for someone that's grieving.

Or do you believe God knowing the future or hearing appeals for different outcomes isn't biblical?

That has nothing to do with what I'm saying.