Zone1 Who or What is God according to the Bible?

[onefour1]

It is interesting that all Christian sects that believe in the Bible do not agree on all aspects of who or what God is. In your particular Christian sect, who and what do you believe God is according to the Bible and what scriptural evidence do you have to back up your belief? In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe that God the Father is an exalted man. In Luke chapter 24 we learn that the resurrected immortal Christ has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mankind has and is able to eat and be touched by his disciples.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

From this we know that Jesus, who is part of the godhead, has an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones. Thus a part of the godhead is in the form of mankind and does have a body of flesh and bones. One question I would have is why would you expect the Father to be a different being that the Christ? In Hebrews 1 we learn that the immortal resurrected Jesus Christ is the express image of the person of the Father:

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If the immortal resurrected Jesus, with a body of flesh and bones, is the express image of the person of the Father, wouldn't that mean that the Father also has an immortal body of flesh and bones just as Jesus has? This makes even more sense when we realize that God made mankind in his very image and likeness.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Here we learn that there was more than one being in the creation when we read the words "us" and "our" in this verse. I believe this is referring to both God the Father and Jesus Christ since it was through Jesus that God created all things that were created according to John 1:1-3:

John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Other verses that indicate that God the Father is also in the form of a man are as follows:

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How can Jesus sit down on the right hand of the Father if the Father doesn't have a right hand?

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Again, Jesus is seen standing on the right hand of God the Father.

Revelation 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Here we read that God the Father sits upon a throne. How is this done without a body?

Since Jesus is the express image of the Father, does not the following teaching of Jesus make sense?

John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

If you disagree with this, please present the scriptural evidence to back up your belief.

 

[Moonglow]

God looks like Peter O'Toole.

 

[onefour1]

God looks like Peter O'Toole.

I would say that if Jesus is the express image of the person of the Father, then the Father looks exactly like Jesus. Question is what does Jesus actually look like?

 

[BreezeWood]

what does Jesus actually look like?

whatever the 10 commandments -

forbid.

 

[Clyde 154]

It is interesting that all Christian sects that believe in the Bible do not agree on all aspects of who or what God is. In your particular Christian sect, who and what do you believe God is according to the Bible and what scriptural evidence do you have to back up your belief? In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe that God the Father is an exalted man. In Luke chapter 24 we learn that the resurrected immortal Christ has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mankind has and is able to eat and be touched by his disciples.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

From this we know that Jesus, who is part of the godhead, has an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones. Thus a part of the godhead is in the form of mankind and does have a body of flesh and bones. One question I would have is why would you expect the Father to be a different being that the Christ? In Hebrews 1 we learn that the immortal resurrected Jesus Christ is the express image of the person of the Father:

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If the immortal resurrected Jesus, with a body of flesh and bones, is the express image of the person of the Father, wouldn't that mean that the Father also has an immortal body of flesh and bones just as Jesus has? This makes even more sense when we realize that God made mankind in his very image and likeness.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Here we learn that there was more than one being in the creation when we read the words "us" and "our" in this verse. I believe this is referring to both God the Father and Jesus Christ since it was through Jesus that God created all things that were created according to John 1:1-3:

John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Other verses that indicate that God the Father is also in the form of a man are as follows:

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How can Jesus sit down on the right hand of the Father if the Father doesn't have a right hand?

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Again, Jesus is seen standing on the right hand of God the Father.

Revelation 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Here we read that God the Father sits upon a throne. How is this done without a body?

Since Jesus is the express image of the Father, does not the following teaching of Jesus make sense?

John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

If you disagree with this, please present the scriptural evidence to back up your belief.

True Christianity has only one source to calibrate truthful doctrine (the Word is the Sword, the defender of Truth ..........The Word of God. If you can't find it in the Word, then its not from God. The Word is the Sword of the Holy Spirit. (Eph. 6:17)

One answer: God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth. (John 4:24). How did God sit down on His own right side? Because Jesus is the Son of God and the Son is equal to the Father..........What is Jesus, the only Begotten of the Father (John 3:16)....if not God? His Father is God.....therefore Jesus is God, Jesus could be nothing else other than God Himself........Jesus has the "essence" of the Godhead.

There are 3 distinct persons (a family) that make up the Godhead. Even in the Old Testament God is presented as a trinity. "Let US make man in our image...." -- Genesis 1:26, "The man has BECOME AS "ONE OF US".......... -- Genesis 3:22 The Holy Spirit of God is mentioned many times in the Old Testament.

Jesus (the word) was with God and was God when the worlds were created (John Chapter 1) The Apostles declared the exact same...........Jesus created the worlds (1 Col. 16-20) God spoke/commanded the world to come into existence.........Jesus is that Word, and the Light of the World ( Genesis 1, John 1, John 8:12)

Jesus was with God even before the worlds were formed or time itself began, "Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world...." -- 1 Peter 1:20 Paul declared the same...Jesus existed before time existed (2 Tim. 1:9)

Jesus gave up His divinity when He became the Son of Man.......born of a woman, born under the Law (Gal. 4:4). Our Lord Jesus, "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN; And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." -- Phil. 2: 6-8

The miraculous ministry of Jesus lasted but 3 years...........there is no record of Jesus the Son of Man preforming any miracles until the Holy Spirit fell upon Him while He was being baptized in the river Jordon by John, when all the persons of the Godhead are witnessed at the same time and same place. God was speaking from Heaven, the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus in the form of a dove, and Jesus the only Begotten of the Father....all 3 persons of the Godhead presented at the same instant. "And Lo a voice from Heaven saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." -- Matthew 3

As far as God taking the form a man, that is explained in such a simple language that an 8th grader has no excuse not to comprehend. The scriptures explain The Godhead (the throne of God in heaven) exists in 3 distinct family members. The Father, The Son (our Lord Jesus Christ who was made both Lord and Christ by the Father -- Acts 2:36), and the Holy Spirit. Explained, "........there is One body (the church/kingdom) and One Spirit (Holy Spirit), even as you are called in One Hope of your calling: One Lord (Jesus), One Faith (Christianity), One Baptism (Water). ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS ABOVE ALL, AND THROUGH ALL, AND IN YOU ALL......." -- Eph. 4:4-6

How is Jesus both Lord and Christ? The Father (God) has given all authority in heaven and on earth to Jesus Christ (Matthew 16, Matt.28:18-21). Jesus will remain sitting on the right hand of the Father ruling over His kingdom....the church/kingdom, until DEATH is DEFEATED at the last trump (when Hades (the grave) gives up its dead -- Rev. Rev. 20:13 after death/hades/the grave is defeated along with the god of this earth (the Devil -- 2 Cor. 4:4) -- Rev. 20:10-15.

After the judgment when Jesus has collected His bride (the church).............Jesus' gives up His authority and returns the kingdom to the Father (1 Cor. 15:24)

 

[cnm]

Who or What is God according to the Bible?​

An ignorant Bronze age patriarch.

 

[Clyde 154]

An ignorant Bronze age patriarch.

Ain't the 1st amendment a "Grand Thing"..........helps us identify and separate the wheat from the chaff. If you were in one of the despotic nations seeking Social Justice you would have no free speech....and could not tell everyone how religion sucks. Russia, China, Cuba.......

 

[ninja007]

It is interesting that all Christian sects that believe in the Bible do not agree on all aspects of who or what God is. In your particular Christian sect, who and what do you believe God is according to the Bible and what scriptural evidence do you have to back up your belief? In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe that God the Father is an exalted man. In Luke chapter 24 we learn that the resurrected immortal Christ has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mankind has and is able to eat and be touched by his disciples.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

From this we know that Jesus, who is part of the godhead, has an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones. Thus a part of the godhead is in the form of mankind and does have a body of flesh and bones. One question I would have is why would you expect the Father to be a different being that the Christ? In Hebrews 1 we learn that the immortal resurrected Jesus Christ is the express image of the person of the Father:

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If the immortal resurrected Jesus, with a body of flesh and bones, is the express image of the person of the Father, wouldn't that mean that the Father also has an immortal body of flesh and bones just as Jesus has? This makes even more sense when we realize that God made mankind in his very image and likeness.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Here we learn that there was more than one being in the creation when we read the words "us" and "our" in this verse. I believe this is referring to both God the Father and Jesus Christ since it was through Jesus that God created all things that were created according to John 1:1-3:

John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Other verses that indicate that God the Father is also in the form of a man are as follows:

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How can Jesus sit down on the right hand of the Father if the Father doesn't have a right hand?

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Again, Jesus is seen standing on the right hand of God the Father.

Revelation 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Here we read that God the Father sits upon a throne. How is this done without a body?

Since Jesus is the express image of the Father, does not the following teaching of Jesus make sense?

John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

If you disagree with this, please present the scriptural evidence to back up your belief.

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE churchJesus Christ started?​ Robert Millet is part of the Church Public Affairs (Manager of Outreach andInterfaith Relations) Millet is the Mormon churches spokesman to try and make peace withChristians, he currently does public tours called dialogues between anEvangelical and Mormon. Millet states, “much of the misunderstanding in modern Christendomstems from a “vocabulary issue” -- the need to educate ourselves as towhat our friends mean.” I agree, the meaning of what is said can bedifferent than the words. The meaning can alsobe more important then the words said. We will consider the LDSchurch own words and statements; themeaning becomes obvious. In this article the main differences between true Christianity and what thereligion of Mormonism proposes as the truth will be laid out for anyone tounderstand. The choice of which is true will be their own. I want to make it clear for both Mormons and Christians how divided we areon the essentials of the Christian faith, that is based on the teachings ofJesus Christ and His Apostles. My intent is not to make Mormons angry (it maybe unavoidable) but to have them understandthe basic differences and why we do not accept their religion as authenticChristianity. I will only quote from their officials; their president’s,prophet's and apostles. We will concentrate on only three things: 1) The nature of God. 2) JesusChrist, and 3) the way of Salvation. With their own quotes next to the Bibleand the explanations of the text it will be proven they have a very differentmessage than the Christian church does from the Bible. A message that is not compatible at allwith Jesus Christ, nor with the apostles. 1) The Nature of God Mormons teach there are many Gods and that man himself can become a god.Mormon teaching- “Question- Are there more Gods than one? Answer- Yes,many.1 Cor 8:5” (Catechism, by Elder John Jaques, chapter 4, page 13.) The Bible teaches there is only ONE true God who eternally exists beforeanything was made and that all other gods are false. MORMONISM -“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, andto be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you”(Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, The Journal ofDiscourses, Vol. VI, page 4) Their own prophet taught that men who are created by God can become God. Ofcourse their concept of God is not the same as the bible because the Bibleteaches God always existed as God, does not change, so no creature created byhim can become Him. “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sitsenthroned in yonder heavens ( Founder and Mormon Prophet JosephSmith, April 6, 1844, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI,page 3 “...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all,dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...” (History ofthe Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306). The Bible- “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of theincorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:22-23) They are teaching that God was a man “as we are now” and then achieved hisexalted rank. So God the Father was not always the Father, but becamethe Father (see John 17) “Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint andsinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into itwith a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.(Second President and Prophet Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, recorded inThe Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50). “As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become.”(LorenzoSnow the fifth President of the Church, LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983,p. 14) “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each oneof whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to hisredemption, while yet in his mortal state” (The Seer, by ApostleOrson Pratt, Vol. 1, March 1853, No. 3, page 37) “The Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (“Bookof Abraham,”4:1, in The Pearl of Great Price, by the Prophet JosephSmith, page 38. “The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council tobring forth the world.” “I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I havepreached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…thedoctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any otherdoctrine.” (founder J. Smith History of the church Vol.6 pp.308,474) The founder Smith was so convinced of his Godhood that he declared “MyFather worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same;and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he mayobtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then takea higher exaltation, and I will TAKE HIS PLACE, and thereby become EXALTEDMYSELF.” (LDS “Founder” and “Prophet” Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 6, p. 4, 1844, emphasis added) “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods;and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it”(sermon by Founder and Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, recorded in TheJournal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 5) Joseph Smith said “God himself was once as we are now, and is anexalted man.” “…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see himlike a man in form- like yourselves, in all the person, image and very form asa man…” (founder Joseph Smith history of the Church vol.6 p.305 also teachings ofthe prophet J.Smith p.345) “It [Mormonism] is the only system of religion known in heaven or onearth that can EXALT A MAN TO THE GODHEAD, and this it will do to all thosewho embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” (LDS “Prophet”and second president Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 251, 1863) Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church stated: “Brethren,225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. Thereseems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has provedthat he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us helpmake, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p.80, Nov. 1975). Brigham Young the second president of the church, “How manyGods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were noGods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7p.333). What Mormon can believe in only one God? If they did, they would go againsttheir founder, the prophets, presidents, apostles and all the teachings intheir church.They would not have the testimony of their founder Joseph Smithbeing a prophet. The Bible- Isaiah 44:6 “Beside Me there is no God” Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, orever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting toeverlasting, thou art God” Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God” Deuteronomy 6:4 “our God is one LORD” Deuteronomy 4:35,39 “Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightestknow that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.v.39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORDhe is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.” Isaiah 44:6, 8 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and hisredeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besideme there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told theefrom that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there aGod beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isaiah 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there isno God beside Me” Isaiah 45:18 “For thus says the Lord, Who created the heavens, Whois God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did notcreate it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and thereis no other.” Isaiah 45:21 “and there is no God else beside me; a justGod and a Savior; there is none beside me. God says that he alone is God, not just over this world but in all thingsHe alone created. He is the Eternal One (“I AM”, Exodus 3:14). No onecould or ever will be able to become deity or God. Psalm 86:10 “For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thouart God alone. I Chronicles 17:26 “Thou alone art God” 2 Samuel 7:22 “O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither isthere any God beside thee” 1 Kings 8:60 “the LORD is God, and that there is none else. ISAIAH 46:9 “For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, andthere is none like me.” This means that none become God like the gods before them John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” 1 Timothy 2:5 “ For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 2) Jesus This brings us to the next Mormon distinctive that differs from orthodoxChristianity – the Jesus of Mormonism. Mormon theology widely differs from Christianityon this subject, they teach that a “Heavenly Father” and “HeavenlyMother” begat spirits, Jesus was born in heaven with many other spiritbrothers-including Lucifer. The Bible does not teach of a mother (or Father andson as a family) but the Mormon church does. “This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmedin plainness by the First Presidency of the Church (Mormon Doctrine,Apostle McConkie 1979, page 516) Milton R. Hunter, who served in the First Council of the Seventy, confirms:“The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, aswell as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology”(The Gospel Through the Ages, 1958, p.98). Their own president should settle the matter-Hinckley was asked on aprime-time Australian TV broadcast if his church taught that God the Fatherhas a wife, he replied, “I don't know, but I suppose so. As we have aFather I assume we have a mother.” Pressed by interviewer David Ransom,Hinckley acknowledged: “Yes. Well we...Yes, we have a mother in heaven”(From a transcript of the 9 November 1997 Compass TV program, AustralianBroadcast Company president Hinckley) “In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were thespirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp.15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). Apostle Bruce McConkiewrote, “The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (MormonDoctrine, p. 129.) This agrees with Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of theLDS Church, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born wasand is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors” (GospelDoctrine, p. 70). According to Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, “Amongthe spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or JesusChrist, to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).Joseph F. Smith, Jr., made this plain in his book,: “The birth of theSavior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree ofmysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh aswell as in the spirit”( Religious Truths Defined, page 44) In the book of Mormon, Alma 7:10 Jesus was born at Jerusalem. In Micah 5:2;Luke 2:4 the Bible states it was Bethlehem. The Mormon’s argument is that“Jerusalem” refers to the general vicinity, but in I Nephi 1:3 itis called a “city.” Bethlehem and Jerusalem are two different citiesaccording to the Bible. So they have a Jesus also born in a different city. Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that, “Christ, the Firstborn,was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.” Joseph F.Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said this of Jesus, “Among thespirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ,to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70). The Mormons Jesus is created, the Bibles Jesus is the creator. Jesus cannotbe both created and non- created, the brother of the devil and the creator ofthe Devil. He is either one or the other. The Bible- Tells all those from the time of Jesus onward toour day who Jesus ACTUALLY is- 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us “God wasmanifested in the flesh.” This goes along with various other passages suchas Romans 9:5 “According to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all,the eternally blessed God. Amen In Hebrews 1:10 The Father speaking of the Son, “And, Thou, Lord, inthe beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens arethe works of your hands... and they shall be changed: but thou art thesame” (quoting Psalm 102:25). John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and withoutHim nothing was made that was made.” Colossians 1:16-17 “For by Him all things were created that arein heaven and that are on earth, Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eyewill see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth willmourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, theBeginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is tocome, the Almighty.” In conclusion on this topic. What kind of God became flesh? For the Mormons-none. Jesus is an angel that became a man, and was exalted to become a God. The Bible- “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Donot be carried about with various and strange doctrines.” (Hebrews13:8-9) The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible. They cannot be bothcreated and non- created. 3) The Gospel​ Now we come the most important part of this article. I’m speaking thetruth in love, there is nothing more that I would desire than to see Mormonsunderstand the gospel that is the Bible. Galatians 1:8-9: ”But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preachany other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him beaccursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, ifanyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you havereceived, let him be accursed.” Paul states in 2 Corinthians11:3-4 “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by hiscraftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is inChrist. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus(that’s what Mormons have) whom we have not preached, or if you receive a differentspirit (that’s what Mormons have) which you have notreceived, or a different gospel (that’s whatMormons have) which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it!” Mormonism “The Sectarian Dogma of justification by Faith alone has exercised aninfluence for evil since the early days of Christianity” (The Articlesof Faith, by Apostle James E. Talmage, 1899 edition, page 120. In his1925 edition of The Articles of Faith, on page 479, he calls “justificationby faith alone” “this pernicious doctrine.”) “As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save allmankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, asit is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is nosalvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are notof God” (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; Robert Millet,p. 73) Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth prophet, explained “Our EternalFather would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation,however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is onlyobtained through compliance with divine commandments” (Nov. 1965, p.962). George Q. Cannon speaking of Joseph Smith “If we get oursalvation, we shall have to pass by him, if we enter our glory, it will bethrough the authority he has received. We cannot get around him” (George Q.Cannon, 1988 Melchezedik guide, p.142) 2 Nephi 25:23 by grace we are saved, after all we can do.” “Therefore, acting alone, the grace of Christ is notsufficient for salvation. The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation,the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary forsalvation...” (By Grace Are We Saved: The necessity of God'sgrace in addition to man's good works, 1989 ed., p. 70) Robert. Millet is the one who is going around in discussion with GregJohnson telling people that we can get along and that believe the same thing.Here he calls being saved by faith through grace a doctrine of the Devil. “Aswith the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so withthe doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught inmodern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in eitherof them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God’ (WhatThink Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; cf. Robert Millet, p. 73). Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, “This Church is the ensignon the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, thetruth, and the life” (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). “So hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdomof God, it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jewsand Gentiles, to the bond and free; to friends and foes; no man or woman inthis generation will get a resurrection and be crowned without Joseph sayingso. (Second president Brigham Young, Conference held on October 8, 1854) The Bible - “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [itis] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”(Ephesians 2:4–9). “being justified freely by His grace through the redemptionthat is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). V.28 “Therefore weconclude that a man is justified by faith apart from thedeeds of the law” “But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yeadoubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of theknowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of allthings, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found inhim, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that whichis through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith”(Philippians 3:7–9). “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according tohis mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewingof the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ ourSaviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirsaccording to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5–7). The Bible speaks of the grace of God through faith to be saved- there is noOTHER way. As Robert Millet stated “...if everything we teach and believe isin the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a Joseph Smith, a Book ofMormon, a Doctrines and Covenants or a restoration!”(43 minute video, Source: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/49068/6036%20) Their spokesman for Church Public Affairs believes that the Bible is insufficient, and they defendthis position today- nothing has changed. The Bible-Jesus said in Jn.17:8 “I have given them your words you have given me.” Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice, they will flee from thevoice of stranger.” John 8 “He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do nothear, because you are not of God.” The whole Old Testament testifies that there is only one God who madeeverything that exists. The whole New Testament testifies that Jesus Christ isthat God who came in human flesh. No matter how one tries to reform or adjustMormon doctrine it does not make it Christian doctrine. Softening the Mormonposition on these 3 points does not make it authentic and can only bring intoquestion anyone’s honesty in their motives. If the concept of many gods isnot abandoned, if the belief that Jesus is a spirit creature is not abandonedthen the gospel that centers on Jesus Christ cannot be the true gospel. And ifit is not the true authentic one, then it cannot save no matter how sincere aperson is.

 

[ninja007]

The Truth About Mormonism - Apologetics

(What You Have NOT Been Told) By Dennis and Rauni Higley President Joseph Fielding Smith (President … The Truth About Mormonism Read More »

www.namb.net

 

[luiza]

Probably one of the Anunnaki local to our ME of today .
Probably not Marduk himself but one of his Regional Commanders .
Not really much good at his job unfortunately but good enough to convince the local idiots that he was a Sky God and probably King of the Universe . .

 

[Moonglow]

I would say that if Jesus is the express image of the person of the Father, then the Father looks exactly like Jesus. Question is what does Jesus actually look like?

I know what he looks like since I got his autograph one day.

 

[Moonglow]

Probably one of the Anunnaki local to our ME of today .
Probably not Marduk himself but one of his Regional Commanders .
Not really much good at his job unfortunately but good enough to convince the local idiots that he was a Sky God and probably King of the Universe . .

Same with Nanna/Sîn

 

[onefour1]

True Christianity has only one source to calibrate truthful doctrine (the Word is the Sword, the defender of Truth ..........The Word of God. If you can't find it in the Word, then its not from God. The Word is the Sword of the Holy Spirit. (Eph. 6:17)

One answer: God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth. (John 4:24).

John 4:24 is often translated as "God is spirit" or "God is a spirit". The question is whether this verse is telling us that God is strictly a spirit without a body or not. In Paul's famous discourse to the Corinthians, he tells us the following about a resurrected immortal body:

1 Corinthians 15:42-47
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

In this verse we are told that our bodies are sown a natural body but then it is raised a spiritual body. We know from Luke 24 that Jesus, when resurrected, had a physical body of flesh and bones that could be touched and he could also eat. The life of his resurrected body was his spirit and not the blood of the natural body. Thus the whole thing becoming spiritual or quickened by the spirit. So to say that "God is spirit" could mean that God's resurrected body is alive by his spirit and not that he is simply a disembodied spirit. To say that "God is spirit" could simply mean that he is not a flesh and blood body. He is a spiritual being with a body of flesh and bones. So is Christ also. Thus the Son is the express image of the Father's person and they are both immortal spiritual beings with bodies of flesh and bones. To say that the Father does not have a body would mean that the immortal resurrected Jesus is not the express image of the person of the Father as Hebrews 1 declares. Also if our bodies are made in the image and likeness of God this would make sense.

How did God sit down on His own right side? Because Jesus is the Son of God and the Son is equal to the Father..........What is Jesus, the only Begotten of the Father (John 3:16)....if not God? His Father is God.....therefore Jesus is God, Jesus could be nothing else other than God Himself........Jesus has the "essence" of the Godhead.

Jesus was able to sit on the right side of the Father because the Father has a right side. If Jesus sits on the Father's right side, then Jesus is not the same person as the Father. He occupies a separate and distinct space.

There are 3 distinct persons (a family) that make up the Godhead. Even in the Old Testament God is presented as a trinity. "Let US make man in our image...." -- Genesis 1:26, "The man has BECOME AS "ONE OF US".......... -- Genesis 3:22 The Holy Spirit of God is mentioned many times in the Old Testament.

I agree that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct beings. The doctrine of the trinity, which is not biblical, states that they are the same being but separate persons. I do not believe they are the same being at all. They are one in purpose and as a godhead they work together in perfect unison. Nothing in the Bible suggest that they are the exact same being. They show separation of space and wills. Speaking of Adam God said, "The man has BECOME AS "ONE OF US". God and Jesus had a knowledge of good and evil and after Adam partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God exclaimed that Adam had become like them knowing good and evil. John in John 17 tells us that we all can become one even as the Father and Son are one. This does not mean that we become the same being. It only means that we become one in purpose and unity with God.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

It is the light and glory that emits from one another that is shared and not that we all become the same being.

Jesus (the word) was with God and was God when the worlds were created (John Chapter 1) The Apostles declared the exact same...........Jesus created the worlds (1 Col. 16-20) God spoke/commanded the world to come into existence.........Jesus is that Word, and the Light of the World ( Genesis 1, John 1, John 8:12)

I agree that Jesus, through the direction of the Father, was the creator of all that was created. As a member of the godhead, he was given the power to do so. He shared in the title of "God" as a member of the godhead. It does not imply that God and Jesus are the same being. I believe the word "create" implies creating something from something already in existence. I do not believe it implies speaking something into existence out of nothing.

Jesus was with God even before the worlds were formed or time itself began, "Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world...." -- 1 Peter 1:20 Paul declared the same...Jesus existed before time existed (2 Tim. 1:9)

I agree that Jesus existed with God before the world was. I believe that time is nothing more than a sectioning off of eternity with a beginning and end. The concept of time may have always existed with God even thought eternity is without beginning or end. 2 Timothy 1:9 says nothing about time not existing.

Jesus gave up His divinity when He became the Son of Man.......born of a woman, born under the Law (Gal. 4:4). Our Lord Jesus, "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN; And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." -- Phil. 2: 6-8

I don't believe that Jesus gave up his divinity but still considered himself the Son of God and the Savior of the world. I believe that Jesus, as a child of Mary, gained the ability to lay down his life but it was his choice to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The miraculous ministry of Jesus lasted but 3 years...........there is no record of Jesus the Son of Man preforming any miracles until the Holy Spirit fell upon Him while He was being baptized in the river Jordon by John, when all the persons of the Godhead are witnessed at the same time and same place. God was speaking from Heaven, the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus in the form of a dove, and Jesus the only Begotten of the Father....all 3 persons of the Godhead presented at the same instant. "And Lo a voice from Heaven saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." -- Matthew 3

As far as God taking the form a man, that is explained in such a simple language that an 8th grader has no excuse not to comprehend. The scriptures explain The Godhead (the throne of God in heaven) exists in 3 distinct family members. The Father, The Son (our Lord Jesus Christ who was made both Lord and Christ by the Father -- Acts 2:36), and the Holy Spirit. Explained, "........there is One body (the church/kingdom) and One Spirit (Holy Spirit), even as you are called in One Hope of your calling: One Lord (Jesus), One Faith (Christianity), One Baptism (Water). ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS ABOVE ALL, AND THROUGH ALL, AND IN YOU ALL......." -- Eph. 4:4-6

Jesus was created as a man in the very image and likeness of God as all of us are as Genesis 1 teaches.

How is Jesus both Lord and Christ? The Father (God) has given all authority in heaven and on earth to Jesus Christ (Matthew 16, Matt.28:18-21). Jesus will remain sitting on the right hand of the Father ruling over His kingdom....the church/kingdom, until DEATH is DEFEATED at the last trump (when Hades (the grave) gives up its dead -- Rev. Rev. 20:13 after death/hades/the grave is defeated along with the god of this earth (the Devil -- 2 Cor. 4:4) -- Rev. 20:10-15.

After the judgment when Jesus has collected His bride (the church).............Jesus' gives up His authority and returns the kingdom to the Father (1 Cor. 15:24)

I don't believe that Jesus gives up any authority but I do agree that he does glorify the Father in saving and presenting the Father's kingdom of this earth to Him.

 

[onefour1]

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE churchJesus Christ started?​ Robert Millet is part of the Church Public Affairs (Manager of Outreach andInterfaith Relations) Millet is the Mormon churches spokesman to try and make peace withChristians, he currently does public tours called dialogues between anEvangelical and Mormon. Millet states, “much of the misunderstanding in modern Christendomstems from a “vocabulary issue” -- the need to educate ourselves as towhat our friends mean.” I agree, the meaning of what is said can bedifferent than the words. The meaning can alsobe more important then the words said. We will consider the LDSchurch own words and statements; themeaning becomes obvious. In this article the main differences between true Christianity and what thereligion of Mormonism proposes as the truth will be laid out for anyone tounderstand. The choice of which is true will be their own. I want to make it clear for both Mormons and Christians how divided we areon the essentials of the Christian faith, that is based on the teachings ofJesus Christ and His Apostles. My intent is not to make Mormons angry (it maybe unavoidable) but to have them understandthe basic differences and why we do not accept their religion as authenticChristianity. I will only quote from their officials; their president’s,prophet's and apostles. We will concentrate on only three things: 1) The nature of God. 2) JesusChrist, and 3) the way of Salvation. With their own quotes next to the Bibleand the explanations of the text it will be proven they have a very differentmessage than the Christian church does from the Bible. A message that is not compatible at allwith Jesus Christ, nor with the apostles. 1) The Nature of God Mormons teach there are many Gods and that man himself can become a god.Mormon teaching- “Question- Are there more Gods than one? Answer- Yes,many.1 Cor 8:5” (Catechism, by Elder John Jaques, chapter 4, page 13.) The Bible teaches there is only ONE true God who eternally exists beforeanything was made and that all other gods are false. MORMONISM -“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, andto be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you”(Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, The Journal ofDiscourses, Vol. VI, page 4) Their own prophet taught that men who are created by God can become God. Ofcourse their concept of God is not the same as the bible because the Bibleteaches God always existed as God, does not change, so no creature created byhim can become Him. “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sitsenthroned in yonder heavens ( Founder and Mormon Prophet JosephSmith, April 6, 1844, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI,page 3 “...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all,dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...” (History ofthe Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306). The Bible- “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of theincorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:22-23) They are teaching that God was a man “as we are now” and then achieved hisexalted rank. So God the Father was not always the Father, but becamethe Father (see John 17) “Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint andsinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into itwith a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.(Second President and Prophet Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, recorded inThe Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50). “As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become.”(LorenzoSnow the fifth President of the Church, LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983,p. 14) “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each oneof whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to hisredemption, while yet in his mortal state” (The Seer, by ApostleOrson Pratt, Vol. 1, March 1853, No. 3, page 37) “The Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (“Bookof Abraham,”4:1, in The Pearl of Great Price, by the Prophet JosephSmith, page 38. “The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council tobring forth the world.” “I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I havepreached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…thedoctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any otherdoctrine.” (founder J. Smith History of the church Vol.6 pp.308,474) The founder Smith was so convinced of his Godhood that he declared “MyFather worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same;and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he mayobtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then takea higher exaltation, and I will TAKE HIS PLACE, and thereby become EXALTEDMYSELF.” (LDS “Founder” and “Prophet” Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 6, p. 4, 1844, emphasis added) “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods;and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it”(sermon by Founder and Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, recorded in TheJournal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 5) Joseph Smith said “God himself was once as we are now, and is anexalted man.” “…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see himlike a man in form- like yourselves, in all the person, image and very form asa man…” (founder Joseph Smith history of the Church vol.6 p.305 also teachings ofthe prophet J.Smith p.345) “It [Mormonism] is the only system of religion known in heaven or onearth that can EXALT A MAN TO THE GODHEAD, and this it will do to all thosewho embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” (LDS “Prophet”and second president Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 251, 1863) Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church stated: “Brethren,225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. Thereseems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has provedthat he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us helpmake, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p.80, Nov. 1975). Brigham Young the second president of the church, “How manyGods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were noGods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7p.333). What Mormon can believe in only one God? If they did, they would go againsttheir founder, the prophets, presidents, apostles and all the teachings intheir church.They would not have the testimony of their founder Joseph Smithbeing a prophet. The Bible- Isaiah 44:6 “Beside Me there is no God” Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, orever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting toeverlasting, thou art God” Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God” Deuteronomy 6:4 “our God is one LORD” Deuteronomy 4:35,39 “Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightestknow that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.v.39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORDhe is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.” Isaiah 44:6, 8 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and hisredeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besideme there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told theefrom that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there aGod beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isaiah 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there isno God beside Me” Isaiah 45:18 “For thus says the Lord, Who created the heavens, Whois God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did notcreate it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and thereis no other.” Isaiah 45:21 “and there is no God else beside me; a justGod and a Savior; there is none beside me. God says that he alone is God, not just over this world but in all thingsHe alone created. He is the Eternal One (“I AM”, Exodus 3:14). No onecould or ever will be able to become deity or God. Psalm 86:10 “For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thouart God alone. I Chronicles 17:26 “Thou alone art God” 2 Samuel 7:22 “O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither isthere any God beside thee” 1 Kings 8:60 “the LORD is God, and that there is none else. ISAIAH 46:9 “For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, andthere is none like me.” This means that none become God like the gods before them John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” 1 Timothy 2:5 “ For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 2) Jesus This brings us to the next Mormon distinctive that differs from orthodoxChristianity – the Jesus of Mormonism. Mormon theology widely differs from Christianityon this subject, they teach that a “Heavenly Father” and “HeavenlyMother” begat spirits, Jesus was born in heaven with many other spiritbrothers-including Lucifer. The Bible does not teach of a mother (or Father andson as a family) but the Mormon church does. “This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmedin plainness by the First Presidency of the Church (Mormon Doctrine,Apostle McConkie 1979, page 516) Milton R. Hunter, who served in the First Council of the Seventy, confirms:“The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, aswell as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology”(The Gospel Through the Ages, 1958, p.98). Their own president should settle the matter-Hinckley was asked on aprime-time Australian TV broadcast if his church taught that God the Fatherhas a wife, he replied, “I don't know, but I suppose so. As we have aFather I assume we have a mother.” Pressed by interviewer David Ransom,Hinckley acknowledged: “Yes. Well we...Yes, we have a mother in heaven”(From a transcript of the 9 November 1997 Compass TV program, AustralianBroadcast Company president Hinckley) “In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were thespirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp.15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). Apostle Bruce McConkiewrote, “The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (MormonDoctrine, p. 129.) This agrees with Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of theLDS Church, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born wasand is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors” (GospelDoctrine, p. 70). According to Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, “Amongthe spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or JesusChrist, to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).Joseph F. Smith, Jr., made this plain in his book,: “The birth of theSavior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree ofmysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh aswell as in the spirit”( Religious Truths Defined, page 44) In the book of Mormon, Alma 7:10 Jesus was born at Jerusalem. In Micah 5:2;Luke 2:4 the Bible states it was Bethlehem. The Mormon’s argument is that“Jerusalem” refers to the general vicinity, but in I Nephi 1:3 itis called a “city.” Bethlehem and Jerusalem are two different citiesaccording to the Bible. So they have a Jesus also born in a different city. Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that, “Christ, the Firstborn,was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.” Joseph F.Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said this of Jesus, “Among thespirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ,to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70). The Mormons Jesus is created, the Bibles Jesus is the creator. Jesus cannotbe both created and non- created, the brother of the devil and the creator ofthe Devil. He is either one or the other. The Bible- Tells all those from the time of Jesus onward toour day who Jesus ACTUALLY is- 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us “God wasmanifested in the flesh.” This goes along with various other passages suchas Romans 9:5 “According to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all,the eternally blessed God. Amen In Hebrews 1:10 The Father speaking of the Son, “And, Thou, Lord, inthe beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens arethe works of your hands... and they shall be changed: but thou art thesame” (quoting Psalm 102:25). John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and withoutHim nothing was made that was made.” Colossians 1:16-17 “For by Him all things were created that arein heaven and that are on earth, Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eyewill see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth willmourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, theBeginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is tocome, the Almighty.” In conclusion on this topic. What kind of God became flesh? For the Mormons-none. Jesus is an angel that became a man, and was exalted to become a God. The Bible- “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Donot be carried about with various and strange doctrines.” (Hebrews13:8-9) The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible. They cannot be bothcreated and non- created. 3) The Gospel​ Now we come the most important part of this article. I’m speaking thetruth in love, there is nothing more that I would desire than to see Mormonsunderstand the gospel that is the Bible. Galatians 1:8-9: ”But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preachany other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him beaccursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, ifanyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you havereceived, let him be accursed.” Paul states in 2 Corinthians11:3-4 “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by hiscraftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is inChrist. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus(that’s what Mormons have) whom we have not preached, or if you receive a differentspirit (that’s what Mormons have) which you have notreceived, or a different gospel (that’s whatMormons have) which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it!” Mormonism “The Sectarian Dogma of justification by Faith alone has exercised aninfluence for evil since the early days of Christianity” (The Articlesof Faith, by Apostle James E. Talmage, 1899 edition, page 120. In his1925 edition of The Articles of Faith, on page 479, he calls “justificationby faith alone” “this pernicious doctrine.”) “As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save allmankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, asit is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is nosalvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are notof God” (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; Robert Millet,p. 73) Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth prophet, explained “Our EternalFather would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation,however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is onlyobtained through compliance with divine commandments” (Nov. 1965, p.962). George Q. Cannon speaking of Joseph Smith “If we get oursalvation, we shall have to pass by him, if we enter our glory, it will bethrough the authority he has received. We cannot get around him” (George Q.Cannon, 1988 Melchezedik guide, p.142) 2 Nephi 25:23 by grace we are saved, after all we can do.” “Therefore, acting alone, the grace of Christ is notsufficient for salvation. The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation,the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary forsalvation...” (By Grace Are We Saved: The necessity of God'sgrace in addition to man's good works, 1989 ed., p. 70) Robert. Millet is the one who is going around in discussion with GregJohnson telling people that we can get along and that believe the same thing.Here he calls being saved by faith through grace a doctrine of the Devil. “Aswith the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so withthe doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught inmodern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in eitherof them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God’ (WhatThink Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; cf. Robert Millet, p. 73). Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, “This Church is the ensignon the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, thetruth, and the life” (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). “So hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdomof God, it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jewsand Gentiles, to the bond and free; to friends and foes; no man or woman inthis generation will get a resurrection and be crowned without Joseph sayingso. (Second president Brigham Young, Conference held on October 8, 1854) The Bible - “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [itis] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”(Ephesians 2:4–9). “being justified freely by His grace through the redemptionthat is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). V.28 “Therefore weconclude that a man is justified by faith apart from thedeeds of the law” “But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yeadoubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of theknowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of allthings, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found inhim, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that whichis through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith”(Philippians 3:7–9). “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according tohis mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewingof the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ ourSaviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirsaccording to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5–7). The Bible speaks of the grace of God through faith to be saved- there is noOTHER way. As Robert Millet stated “...if everything we teach and believe isin the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a Joseph Smith, a Book ofMormon, a Doctrines and Covenants or a restoration!”(43 minute video, Source: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/49068/6036%20) Their spokesman for Church Public Affairs believes that the Bible is insufficient, and they defendthis position today- nothing has changed. The Bible-Jesus said in Jn.17:8 “I have given them your words you have given me.” Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice, they will flee from thevoice of stranger.” John 8 “He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do nothear, because you are not of God.” The whole Old Testament testifies that there is only one God who madeeverything that exists. The whole New Testament testifies that Jesus Christ isthat God who came in human flesh. No matter how one tries to reform or adjustMormon doctrine it does not make it Christian doctrine. Softening the Mormonposition on these 3 points does not make it authentic and can only bring intoquestion anyone’s honesty in their motives. If the concept of many gods isnot abandoned, if the belief that Jesus is a spirit creature is not abandonedthen the gospel that centers on Jesus Christ cannot be the true gospel. And ifit is not the true authentic one, then it cannot save no matter how sincere aperson is.

1) The Nature of God - Ninja007 seems to concentrate on only one subject and that is that we believe there are more than one God. To understand The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective on this topic one needs to understand that when God says to us that there are no other God beside me or "beside me there is no God", what God is conveying is that he is the supreme ruler of this world and the supreme ruler in all His kingdom. Thus beside Him, there is no other supreme ruler in all his kingdom. He is not saying that there is no such thing as other gods but that to us here on this earth and everywhere else in his kingdom he is the supreme God and He is over all. Now let me prove to you from the Bible whether there are other gods that exist or not.

Psalms 82:1
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

From the Bible we learn that God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; and he judgeth among the gods. WHAT?!? He judgeth among the gods? This is saying that there are other gods and that they are plural! How can that be if there is only one God? Is the Bible contradicting itself? NO!!! If you understand that there is only one true God who rules and reigns over us and no other, even though there are other gods then this makes sense. God is the one presiding God over us and there is no other God who presides over us than He even though there are those that are gods you can understand what God means when he says He is the one true God.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

What?!? The God who said there are no other Gods beside Him is telling us we are gods? How can that be? Blasphemy!!!!! God himself, who claims that there are no other gods is telling us, his children, that we ourselves are gods!!!!! How can that be? Is God a liar? It seems apparent that there are other gods in existence according to the Bible!!!! But... there is still only one God who presides and rules and reigns over the earth and all his kingdom!!

When Jesus claimed that he was the Son of God, the Jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy because he, being a man, claimed that he was the very Son of God! Jesus' reply was as follows:

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

What is this??? Jesus himself said that we are gods? How can that be? Is this not going against the Old Testament teaching of Isaiah which says, "Beside there is no God"? Is Jesus a false teacher??? Is Jesus a Mormon? He is teach of multiple gods!!! How dare He? Maybe what Jesus is saying is that there are many gods but only one true God who rules and reigns over this earth and his kingdom. It has to be taken within context!!! The Apostle Paul put it this way:

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here the Apostle Paul, after telling us that idols are nothing, tells us that there are those that are called gods whether in heaven or on earth (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us (who are within the kingdom of God on this earth) there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things.

So are there other gods? YES! Even Jesus himself said as much. Are they the one true God who rules over the earth and kingdom in we reside? NO!!! There is only one God who rules over this earth and over all His kingdom!!!

Now that we see that there are other gods whether in heaven or on earth, what is the capacity of these gods? Can they progress to become like their Father in heaven? Jesus himself, commanded all of us with the following command:

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Here Jesus is commanding us to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Would Jesus give us a commandment that we could never obey? Is commanding us to to do something we can never do? Or, is it possible that the omnipotent God himself can make his children whom he has declared to be gods to become perfect like Himself? Is Jesus lying to us or telling us the truth? We believe that Jesus is telling us to become what is possible for us to become!!

John the Beloved Apostle of Jesus Christ has taught us the following:

John 17: 20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Here John tells us that Jesus taught that we can be made perfect in one even as Jesus himself is one with the Father. How dare those Mormons preach that we can become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect and that we can become perfect in one even as Jesus is perfect in one with the Father. If we were to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect, would we not also be Gods? Maybe there is space outside of God's kingdom where others can have a kingdom of their own. Maybe this is how God the Father Himself came to be a God. These were the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Personally, I don't see how they contradict the Bible if others can have an entire kingdom of their own.

2. Jesus Christ - Here Ninja007 concentrates primarily on the premortal Jesus and claims somehow that he cannot be God. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe that all of us who are here on earth pre-existed as the spirit children of our Father and Mother in heaven. We believe that God, from the beginning created us male and female and that it was God's will that we leave our mother and father and marry a wife and that a man and wife should become one flesh.

Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

God said that it was not good for man to be alone. In the New Testament we read:

1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

We believe that this is not only true in this life but in the world to come. God has given man his priesthood and within that priest is the power to bind on earth so that it will be bound in heaven.

Mathew 18:18
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Thus through the power the priesthood it is possible to bind or seal marriages on earth and thus have them sealed or bound in heaven. Through this we believe that marriage can be eternal. We believe that God, as an exalted man has a wife sealed to him for all eternity. We believe that we were were all the offspring of God and existed as his offspring before we came to this earth.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Jeremiah 1:5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ephesians 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

These verse attest to our premortal existence before the foundation of the world. As the spirit offspring of our Father and Mother in heaven, we were born as spirits. Jesus Christ was the firstborn of all the spirit children of God the Father.

Romans 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Hebrews 12:22-23
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Hebrews 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

In the premortal world of spirits, Jesus was the firstborn son of the Father and in this world he was the Only Begotten of the Father. Premortally he was the firstborn among many brethren. We believe that before God began all his creations, He gave birth to the spirit of Jesus Christ. From then, the Father gave his son preeminence in all things and Jesus became the creator of all things. He became the second member of the godhead under his Father. He created many worlds and created this earth. We do not believe that you have to have been God for an eternity past to have the power to create. We do not believe that anything is created from absolutely nothing. We believe that ex nihilo creation is a false doctrine. We believe that the spirit of man is created from eternal intelligence and spirit matter. We believe in continuing revelation and that God continues to reveal his will to prophets and apostles as much today and he did in ancient times. We believe that as spirits of God, those who were faithful in the premortal existence in the war in heaven are those who were allowed to come to earth and receive bodies of flesh and bone (see Revelation 12). Jesus, as the second member of the godhead, was god before the world was, He is god while the world is, and will be God after this world of mortality ends. In this way he is the same yesterday, today and forever. In this way he is the unchangeable God. Does this mean that nothing about Jesus ever changes? NO!! Jesus was a spirit being before He was born into this world. While in this world he had a body of flesh and blood. After his death and resurrection he no longer had a body with blood but had a body of flesh and bones that was made alive by the spirit within him. He is now a glorified immortal resurrected being who is still God.

3.)The Gospel - In this section Ninja007 argues primarily that the Bible teaches that faith without works is alive and can bring you to Christ who saves us through his grace. I have written much on this on this board and reject that you can even have a faith without works. Let us go to the Bible and see what it has to say:

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Here the Apostle James tells us, in no uncertain terms, that faith without works is DEAD! You cannot have a true faith without good works. Ninja007 would defy this Biblical teaching and tell you that you can have a true faith without works. Paul tells us the following:

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

First off I will dispel the myth that people like Ninja007 try to pin on us because we do see the need to do good works and that is that our works save us. Our works nor our Faith save us!!! However, Jesus requires that we have faith which includes good works before He will save us with his grace. In these verses we learn that our works are not what saves but they are required of us and we were created to do good works. Because they are not what saves, we having nothing to boast of in good works. However, good works are a part of a true faith which brings us unto Christ wherein his grace does save us. Jesus taught:

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

True, our works are not the saving force behind salvation. But Jesus in no uncertain terms lets us know that without good works, which is his will that we should walk in them, we will not receive his grace which is the saving force behind salvation. All through the Bible good works are spoken of and that we should do them. They don't save us and we have nothing to boast of in our works alone. However, we cannot even have a true faith without good works and they are the will of God which is required of us before He will save us into his kingdom by his grace. You can't just cast good works out the window and think that Jesus will save you by his grace. This what Ninja007 and many others do not fully understand about good works, faith, and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Clyde 154]

John 4:24 is often translated as "God is spirit" or "God is a spirit". The question is whether this verse is telling us that God is strictly a spirit without a body or not. In Paul's famous discourse to the Corinthians, he tells us the following about a resurrected immortal body:

1 Corinthians 15:42-47
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

In this verse we are told that our bodies are sown a natural body but then it is raised a spiritual body. We know from Luke 24 that Jesus, when resurrected, had a physical body of flesh and bones that could be touched and he could also eat. The life of his resurrected body was his spirit and not the blood of the natural body. Thus the whole thing becoming spiritual or quickened by the spirit. So to say that "God is spirit" could mean that God's resurrected body is alive by his spirit and not that he is simply a disembodied spirit. To say that "God is spirit" could simply mean that he is not a flesh and blood body. He is a spiritual being with a body of flesh and bones. So is Christ also. Thus the Son is the express image of the Father's person and they are both immortal spiritual beings with bodies of flesh and bones. To say that the Father does not have a body would mean that the immortal resurrected Jesus is not the express image of the person of the Father as Hebrews 1 declares. Also if our bodies are made in the image and likeness of God this would make sense.


Jesus was able to sit on the right side of the Father because the Father has a right side. If Jesus sits on the Father's right side, then Jesus is not the same person as the Father. He occupies a separate and distinct space.

I agree that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct beings. The doctrine of the trinity, which is not biblical, states that they are the same being but separate persons. I do not believe they are the same being at all. They are one in purpose and as a godhead they work together in perfect unison. Nothing in the Bible suggest that they are the exact same being. They show separation of space and wills. Speaking of Adam God said, "The man has BECOME AS "ONE OF US". God and Jesus had a knowledge of good and evil and after Adam partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God exclaimed that Adam had become like them knowing good and evil. John in John 17 tells us that we all can become one even as the Father and Son are one. This does not mean that we become the same being. It only means that we become one in purpose and unity with God.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

It is the light and glory that emits from one another that is shared and not that we all become the same being.

I agree that Jesus, through the direction of the Father, was the creator of all that was created. As a member of the godhead, he was given the power to do so. He shared in the title of "God" as a member of the godhead. It does not imply that God and Jesus are the same being. I believe the word "create" implies creating something from something already in existence. I do not believe it implies speaking something into existence out of nothing.

I agree that Jesus existed with God before the world was. I believe that time is nothing more than a sectioning off of eternity with a beginning and end. The concept of time may have always existed with God even thought eternity is without beginning or end. 2 Timothy 1:9 says nothing about time not existing.

I don't believe that Jesus gave up his divinity but still considered himself the Son of God and the Savior of the world. I believe that Jesus, as a child of Mary, gained the ability to lay down his life but it was his choice to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus was created as a man in the very image and likeness of God as all of us are as Genesis 1 teaches.

I don't believe that Jesus gives up any authority but I do agree that he does glorify the Father in saving and presenting the Father's kingdom of this earth to Him.

To "nip" your logical fallacy in the bud.........There is no question in relation to God being a spirit as explained via the Christ Himself when He defines the difference between "Spirit" and "Flesh" using the same Koine Greek word of Spirit as is used by John in (John 4:24).....PNEUMA: defined as Soul or Spirit.

How does the Christ describe the difference? "Behold My feet and My hands, that it is I Myself; handle Me, and see; FOR A SPIRIT HAS NOT FLESH AND BONES AS YE SEE ME HAVE." -- Luke 24:39 You can't see Spirit.......as far a man goes your Mind is representative of your Spirit. Can you see the contents of your thoughts? Of course not, what can be seen and measured or "quantified" are the examples of the potentials resulting from your mind/thoughts....i.e, Judgements that define and guide the reality that exists in this physical realm. Thus in order to please the God of Creation, we must worship in spirit and truth for we are created in His Image (Genesis 1:26).....a Spiritual Imagine...that which is contained in the essence of your soul. God created man with a Body, Soul and Spirit.......the spirit is that which reflects an image of the eternal Godhead.

Man is composed of "3" elements; body, soul and spirit (1 Thess 5:23) Our Spirit lives on after our Body ceases to function (2 Peter 1:13-14) Our Spirit is conveyed to Hades at death, defined as the Body void of Spirit (James 2:26)

Hades is the spiritual realm where all the dead await the final judgment, after death there is no communication possible with the living (Luke 16). Why? Flesh and Blood has no place in a spiritual realm such as Heaven where God resides. Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 15:50). The kingdom of Christ/the church resides within every Christian......not in buildings........the Kingdom is "invisible" to those who have not entered the kingdom/church through the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 17:21, Acts 2:38) Why? The kingdom is a Spiritual Kingdom just as described by the Christ. "My kingdom is not from this world (John 18:36)

As explained in both the original Hebrew and the Greek......Spirit is defined as something that exists as observed by its potential effects......felt and experienced but "unseen"......Spirit is simply explained in scripture as something that can be comprehended/understood by man, but not seen..........the Spirit is simply defined in man's words as "WIND". You can feel the wind and experience its effects.......but it remains "unobserved" by humanity. The same applies to LOVE: Can anyone define LOVE? No........one can define the "effects" of love but not Love as it exists in the Spiritual realm (in man that realm exists.....in patterns of thought that can be trained when guided by the Word inspired by the Holy Spirit of God)....the Word (Scriptures) can make the man perfect in knowing what is required to acquire eternal life and fellowship in the Kingdom of God. "All Scripture" is inspired of God (again the Greek word for inspired simply means the breath of God) -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. The PERFECT used in this passage is explaining the perfection of God's word.....not mankind, as no man can be perfect, He can only strive for perfection as guided by the Spirit of God........found only in one place..........the Holy Scriptures.

What is Soul? Its the force from God that animates the flesh........the body cannot function without its soul, God breathed a Soul into Adam (Genesis 2:7). The soul came from God, and it shall return to God its creator, at death to judge righteously......the body goes back to the dust, the Spirit and Soul await God's final judgment. (Eccl. 12:7)

"Sanctify them through thy Truth: Your Word is Truth............." -- John 17:17

The Word of God is our only weapon............The word of God is our Sword (Hebrews 4:12) The word can pierce your Soul and Spirit and put you asunder.......its our only defense against the god of this world (Satan, the Devil, the Old Dragon of antiquity) who is the original liar and the father of lies, the enemy of TRUTH. (2 Cor. 4:4, John 8:44, the great Dragon will be cast into hell via the word in the final judgment (Rev. 12:9)

We will all be judged by THE BOOKS......the Holy Scriptures and the Book of Life (our record while living) -- Rev. 20:12-14
Thus..........you must worship in Spirit (that guiding force that exists within all men/women) and in Truth. Where is Truth located? Its located where we are commanded to be "sanctified" therein: The word of God (John 17:17). Sanctified: to make Holy.........Sanctification is demonstrated through acts of LOVE.......not only is God a Spirit (John 4:24) God is also defined as LOVE (1 John 4:7-12)

How do I demonstrate LOVE? I present THE TRUTH by book, chapter and verse. I am commanded to explain the reason for the Hope that resides within me. (1 Peter 3:15) My duty is to warn others that it is TRUTH that sets one's spirit and soul free (John 8:32). Truth is the very reason that Jesus Christ was born into this world.......and those who are of the truth hear the words of the Christ. (John 18:37)

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus was created as a man in the very image and likeness of God as all of us are as Genesis 1 teaches.

is that the liar moses - jesus taught differently

Then God said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

"all of us" would be all living beings according to jesus ... those in the heavens must have physical appearances as well as spiritual.

 

[Clyde 154]

is that the liar moses - jesus taught differently



"all of us" would be all living beings according to jesus ... those in the heavens must have physical appearances as well as spiritual.

Hardly...........the TRUTH. Flesh and Blood have no place in the Kingdom of God, "...........flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. why? because the flesh is corrupted with decay as are all things physical created to decay and rot........there is no place for the physical in Heaven. Those who are of the kingdom of God will be changed in the "twinkling" of an eye..........putting off the physical body and putting on a Spiritual Body, an incorruptible body -- 1 Cor. 15:50-54

 

[BreezeWood]

the TRUTH. Flesh and Blood have no place in the Kingdom of God

Then God said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness ...

someone has a reading disability ... surly a physical presence of one type or another would be available in the heavens.

 

[Clyde 154]

someone has a reading disability ... surly a physical presence of one type or another would be available in the heavens.

So......you know more than a personally hand picked apostle of Christ? You do know that the scriptures are written so that anyone that can read should have no problem comprehending the simplicity of the language? God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33)

If you having a problem comprehending the antiquated Kings English from the King James Version........lets try modern the simple English Text from the modern ESV translation.....the message and truth remain the same.


Now I (the Apostle Paul) tell you this, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. BEHOLD! I tell you a mystery, We shall not all sleep (death), but we will changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet (final judgment day). For the trumpet will sound, and the dead shall be raised imperishable (eternally existing, something that does not decay with age), AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For the perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on the immortal, then shall come to pass the saying that is written (in scripture): DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY." -- 1 Cor. 15:50-54

The Apostle John revealed the same mystery in the book of Revelation: All things Physical (the corrupted, perishable) will be destroyed cast into eternal fire (Rev. 20:13-15)

Then we hear from the Apostle Peter concerning the final judgement and the physical world. "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens (sky) will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! -- 2 Peter 3:10-12

There will be a new earth and heavens..........as Spiritual Kingdom which is in the realm known as Heaven. A New Jerusalem (Spiritual) -- Rev. 21:1-22:5

 

[onefour1]

To "nip" your logical fallacy in the bud.........There is no question in relation to God being a spirit as explained via the Christ Himself when He defines the difference between "Spirit" and "Flesh" using the same Koine Greek word of Spirit as is used by John in (John 4:24).....PNEUMA: defined as Soul or Spirit.

How does the Christ describe the difference? "Behold My feet and My hands, that it is I Myself; handle Me, and see; FOR A SPIRIT HAS NOT FLESH AND BONES AS YE SEE ME HAVE." -- Luke 24:39 You can't see Spirit.......as far a man goes your Mind is representative of your Spirit. Can you see the contents of your thoughts? Of course not, what can be seen and measured or "quantified" are the examples of the potentials resulting from your mind/thoughts....i.e, Judgements that define and guide the reality that exists in this physical realm. Thus in order to please the God of Creation, we must worship in spirit and truth for we are created in His Image (Genesis 1:26).....a Spiritual Imagine...that which is contained in the essence of your soul. God created man with a Body, Soul and Spirit.......the spirit is that which reflects an image of the eternal Godhead.

In Luke 24 Jesus knew that the disciples believed that they had seen a DISEMBODIED spirit. For this reason He proceeded to teach them, "FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES AS YE SEE ME HAVE". Now if we consider Jesus and all who are alive, we might ask if we have a spirit. The answer would be,, "YES". We might then ask, "Does our spirit have a body of flesh and bones?" The answer would be "Yes". The difference is that we are embodied as a spirit. This is the distinction that Jesus was making to his disciples who believe that they had see a disembodied spirit. Jesus then had them touch him and showed them that he could also eat. This proved to the disciples that Jesus was not merely a disembodied spirit. I believe that the word, "spirit" can have more than a single meaning. For instance, Jesus taught:

John 3:6-7​

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.​

Are we to believe that we must be disembodied to be born again of the spirit? In John 4:48 are we to believe that in order to worship in spirit and truth that we must rid ourselves of our bodies? As Paul taught, our resurrected bodies are quickened by the spirit and we receive a spiritual body. I'm sure that Jesus' body was a spiritual body but it could be touched and felt. But his life came by means of the spirit. To simply say, "God is spirit", in my opinion, does not confine the meaning to be a disembodied spirit. All of us must be born of the spirit again even though we have a body. We all must learn to worship in spirit and truth even though we have bodies. The life of a resurrected being is in the spirit and thus our resurrected bodies are considered spiritual bodies. To say, "God is spirit" in my opinion, does not limit the meaning of that phrase to God not having a body of flesh and bones. And for Christ, in his resurrected immortal state of being, to be the express image of the person of the Father, it only makes sense that the Father also has an immortal body of flesh and bones. That which is born of the spirit is spirit even if it has a body of flesh and bones.

Man is composed of "3" elements; body, soul and spirit (1 Thess 5:23) Our Spirit lives on after our Body ceases to function (2 Peter 1:13-14) Our Spirit is conveyed to Hades at death, defined as the Body void of Spirit (James 2:26)

I believe that we are composed of spirit and body and the union of these two is a soul. However, at times scripture has been translated to convey that soul and spirit are used interchangeably. I don't believe that the spirits of the dead reside in Hades or Hell upon death. According 1 Peter 3 and 4 I believe they reside in Paradise or Spirit Prison until they stand before the judgement seat of Christ. Those who reside in Paradise are those who have accepted Christ either in this world or the world to come. 1 Peter 4:6 tells us that the gospel is also preached to those who are dead which makes it so all receive the chance to accept or reject the gospel. Those who have not accepted Christ reside in Spirit Prison unless they accept the gospel (see also 1 Peter 3:18-20).

Hades is the spiritual realm where all the dead await the final judgment, after death there is no communication possible with the living (Luke 16). Why? Flesh and Blood has no place in a spiritual realm such as Heaven where God resides. Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 15:50). The kingdom of Christ/the church resides within every Christian......not in buildings........the Kingdom is "invisible" to those who have not entered the kingdom/church through the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 17:21, Acts 2:38) Why? The kingdom is a Spiritual Kingdom just as described by the Christ. "My kingdom is not from this world (John 18:36)

I don't believe that Spirit Prison is Hades or Hell. I believe that it is a state of not being assured of salvation in the kingdom of heaven where many who have yet to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ can learn and accept Christ or reject him. For this reason is the gospel preached unto the dead as 1 Peter 4:6 tell us. This is why in my church we do baptisms for the dead since a disembodied spirit cannot be baptized and baptism is a necessary ordinance of the gospel.

As explained in both the original Hebrew and the Greek......Spirit is defined as something that exists as observed by its potential effects......felt and experienced but "unseen"......Spirit is simply explained in scripture as something that can be comprehended/understood by man, but not seen..........the Spirit is simply defined in man's words as "WIND". You can feel the wind and experience its effects.......but it remains "unobserved" by humanity. The same applies to LOVE: Can anyone define LOVE? No........one can define the "effects" of love but not Love as it exists in the Spiritual realm (in man that realm exists.....in patterns of thought that can be trained when guided by the Word inspired by the Holy Spirit of God)....the Word (Scriptures) can make the man perfect in knowing what is required to acquire eternal life and fellowship in the Kingdom of God. "All Scripture" is inspired of God (again the Greek word for inspired simply means the breath of God) -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. The PERFECT used in this passage is explaining the perfection of God's word.....not mankind, as no man can be perfect, He can only strive for perfection as guided by the Spirit of God........found only in one place..........the Holy Scriptures.

What is Soul? Its the force from God that animates the flesh........the body cannot function without its soul, God breathed a Soul into Adam (Genesis 2:7). The soul came from God, and it shall return to God its creator, at death to judge righteously......the body goes back to the dust, the Spirit and Soul await God's final judgment. (Eccl. 12:7)

"Sanctify them through thy Truth: Your Word is Truth............." -- John 17:17

The Word of God is our only weapon............The word of God is our Sword (Hebrews 4:12) The word can pierce your Soul and Spirit and put you asunder.......its our only defense against the god of this world (Satan, the Devil, the Old Dragon of antiquity) who is the original liar and the father of lies, the enemy of TRUTH. (2 Cor. 4:4, John 8:44, the great Dragon will be cast into hell via the word in the final judgment (Rev. 12:9)

We will all be judged by THE BOOKS......the Holy Scriptures and the Book of Life (our record while living) -- Rev. 20:12-14
Thus..........you must worship in Spirit (that guiding force that exists within all men/women) and in Truth. Where is Truth located? Its located where we are commanded to be "sanctified" therein: The word of God (John 17:17). Sanctified: to make Holy.........Sanctification is demonstrated through acts of LOVE.......not only is God a Spirit (John 4:24) God is also defined as LOVE (1 John 4:7-12)

How do I demonstrate LOVE? I present THE TRUTH by book, chapter and verse. I am commanded to explain the reason for the Hope that resides within me. (1 Peter 3:15) My duty is to warn others that it is TRUTH that sets one's spirit and soul free (John 8:32). Truth is the very reason that Jesus Christ was born into this world.......and those who are of the truth hear the words of the Christ. (John 18:37)

I believe that scripture is very important to study and to understand the will of Lord as well as to acquire the faith necessary to lead us to Christ. But also when one is baptized that person can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost which can be a constant companion in their lives to lead them by inspiration from on high. It is more than just a reading of information but works as a personal testimony and guide to our souls of truth.