A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[JakeStarkey]

Probably so, and I apologize for that. I will read more carefully. However, I have not seen the "sensitive" side of you before so I will be more aware of hurting your feelings. Truly, though, my apologies.

 

[BDBoop]

If that's the case.....how is the marriage of two people of the same sex who love each other and are faithful a mockery of marriage?

Because faggots don't have children, except the ones they get from others to rape. And, faggots aren't faithful or loving, either.

No. Because faggots are cigarettes, and a disgusting lot they are.

My sister is a lesbian. She has a 35 y/o son who is a success by any measure you choose to use.

What was your point again.

 

[PredFan]

Probably so, and I apologize for that. I will read more carefully. However, I have not seen the "sensitive" side of you before so I will be more aware of hurting your feelings. Truly, though, my apologies.

Forgiven.

I'm a libertarian. I'm for economic and social liberty. I'm pro-choice accross the board.

I'm tired of waiting for this issue to go away and waiting for many more years so that the 40 and over croud can die out is too .long. We have much more pressing problems in this country that have to share the spotlight with this issue. I'm solidly on the side of liberty, but i offer my compromise to provide that liberty and to try to help speed up the resolution.

 

[BluePhantom]

Swinging has never been the foundation of any successful society neither is sexual debauchery. This type of thing usually signals the downfall of a society. The family unit has always been the foundation of successful societies.

Really? Might I suggest you do some research into Rome? That was a damn successful society, man and their culture engaged in what you would call sexual debauchery for several centuries and yet continued to grow in power. How about the Greeks? There was a whole lot of sexual debauchery going on there and they did pretty well. How about Egypt? They had blowout orgies for thousands of years while continuing to grow and expand and increase their power.

 

[Ariux]

My sister is a lesbian. She has a 35 y/o son who is a success by any measure you choose to use.

Lesbianism doesn't produce sons. Maybe your sister is a closet heterosexual?

 

[BDBoop]

A lesbianism?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLphIVY]Pulp Fiction - English Motherfucker Do You Speak It - YouTube[/ame]

 

[WinterBorn]

The purpose of marriage is not to get benefits. Our society bestows benefits that are mostly related to the rearing of children which are offered regardless of marital status. Historically, marriage was necessary to identify the parents (fathers) of children and hold them responsible for supporting their children. Although some married couples do not have children, all children do have parents and the ruling authority wanted to know who was responsible for each child.

Oh, so if we removed the +/- 1,400 benefits that married couples received, you would be fine with that?

And gays have kids, either thru adoption, previous relationships or outside assistance. So they need to be held responsible as well.

I am unaware of 1,400 benefits. I challenge you list 10 that are not related to children.

Just 10?

1) Filing Joint Tax Returns

2) Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.

3) Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.

4) Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.

5) Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.

6) Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.

7) Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

8) Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

9) Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.

10) Making burial or other final arrangements.



Now, as for child related benefits, one of the biggest is joint adoption. If you and your spouse adopt, and your spouse dies, your child stays with you. For gay couples this is not the case. Since they cannot marry, only one of them adopts the child. If that person dies, the child loses both parents and is put back into foster care.

 

[garyganu]

Swinging has never been the foundation of any successful society neither is sexual debauchery. This type of thing usually signals the downfall of a society. The family unit has always been the foundation of successful societies.

Really? Might I suggest you do some research into Rome? That was a damn successful society, man and their culture engaged in what you would call sexual debauchery for several centuries and yet continued to grow in power. How about the Greeks? There was a whole lot of sexual debauchery going on there and they did pretty well. How about Egypt? They had blowout orgies for thousands of years while continuing to grow and expand and increase their power.

When the debauchery became widespread in these societies, it led to their downfall as it is leading to ours.

 

[BluePhantom]

Swinging has never been the foundation of any successful society neither is sexual debauchery. This type of thing usually signals the downfall of a society. The family unit has always been the foundation of successful societies.

Really? Might I suggest you do some research into Rome? That was a damn successful society, man and their culture engaged in what you would call sexual debauchery for several centuries and yet continued to grow in power. How about the Greeks? There was a whole lot of sexual debauchery going on there and they did pretty well. How about Egypt? They had blowout orgies for thousands of years while continuing to grow and expand and increase their power.

When the debauchery became widespread in these societies, it led to their downfall as it is leading to ours.

Dude, I have never seen someone so proudly display their ignorance of history. Sexual liberation was dominant in those societies during their expansion. Indeed, in the case of Rome their collapse coincided with the adoption of Christianity and the sexual repression that comes with it. In other words they started to collapse at about the same time that they stopped engaging in "debauchery". You have it completely fucking backwards.

 

[PredFan]

A lesbianism?

Pulp Fiction - English Motherfucker Do You Speak It - YouTube

Why do you continue to feed the troll?

 

[Networker1100]

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.

However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.

So now ask yourself about compromise again.... Hmmmm.... Sorry, I can't find one. I refuse to support the evil sick plan of these disgusting turd punchers.

 

[PredFan]

Neither Greese nor Rome achieved their successes through peace, love, and sexual activity. You do realize that right?

 

[WinterBorn]

Swinging has never been the foundation of any successful society neither is sexual debauchery. This type of thing usually signals the downfall of a society. The family unit has always been the foundation of successful societies.

Really? Might I suggest you do some research into Rome? That was a damn successful society, man and their culture engaged in what you would call sexual debauchery for several centuries and yet continued to grow in power. How about the Greeks? There was a whole lot of sexual debauchery going on there and they did pretty well. How about Egypt? They had blowout orgies for thousands of years while continuing to grow and expand and increase their power.

When the debauchery became widespread in these societies, it led to their downfall as it is leading to ours.

Oh please!! Do you actually intend to claim that allowing gays to marry increases the debauchery?? Do you think gays are not having sex unless they are allowed to marry? Do you think that, by allowing gay marriage, more people will be gay? Do you think that straights are not participating in the debauchery?

I suggest you look up the rates of infidelity for married straight couples. I suggest you look at the rates of pre-marital sex among straights. Hell, look up the rates of domestic violence in straight marriages.

You need to get beyond the sex and realize that this is about a loving relationship and not about whether the genitalia matches.

 

[BluePhantom]

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.

However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.

So now ask yourself about compromise again.... Hmmmm.... Sorry, I can't find one. I refuse to support the evil sick plan of these disgusting turd punchers.

Oh good fucking Christ. Do I have to go through all those scriptures and discredit them AGAIN? Networker, we have hammered those to death on so many threads it's sick. Besides, government is not based on religion in the United States and as such even if those scripture were accurate (which they are not) it's completely irrelevant as religious faith is no basis for denying civil rights and constitutional protections to a segment of society. If you wish to live in a society that does that, might I suggest Iran.

 

[rightwinger]

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.

However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.

So now ask yourself about compromise again.... Hmmmm.... Sorry, I can't find one. I refuse to support the evil sick plan of these disgusting turd punchers.

If your religion says you should not engage in homosexual activity, then maybe you shouldn't

Now, show me the part where you get to force your religious views on others

 

[WinterBorn]

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.

However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.

So now ask yourself about compromise again.... Hmmmm.... Sorry, I can't find one. I refuse to support the evil sick plan of these disgusting turd punchers.

You are welcome to your religious beliefs. And if your CHURCH chooses to not recognize gay marriages that is fine.

However, our nation cannot base its laws on the beliefs of any single religion. Therefore, quoting the Bible has no relevance in a topic about federal laws.

 

[BluePhantom]

Neither Greese nor Rome achieved their successes through peace, love, and sexual activity. You do realize that right?

Absolutely....I am simply pointing out to our newest propagandist that his assertion that sexual debauchery signals the downfall of society is absolutely incorrect. In fact from a historical perspective it's actually the opposite. Now I will certainly concede that Rome and Greece did not achieve their power because they were societies where sexuality was open and liberated, but to state that that sexual liberation and sexual culture signaled the downfall of the society is a) logically ludicrous and b) historically completely inaccurate.

 

[Networker1100]

God is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution for OUR NATION. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…"

Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me!

Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

Later, John Quincy Adams answered the question as to why, next to Christmas, was the Fourth of July this most joyous and venerated day in the United States. He answered: "...Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?" Sounds like the founding of a Christian nation to me. John Quincy Adams went on to say that the biggest victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and civil government would be tied together In what he called an "indissoluble" bond. The Founding Fathers understood that religion was inextricably part of our nation and government. The practice of the Christian religion in our government was not only welcomed but encouraged.

Sounds like "THE NATION" you speak of was build on these same beliefs. You live in a free nation able to do whatever you please because of christians that fought and sacrificed themselves. Homosexuality goes against everything this NATION was built upon. So try again...

 

[WorldWatcher]

I am unaware of 1,400 benefits. I challenge you list 10 that are not related to children.

I'm thinking of these off the top of my head so they are in no particular order:

1. Military recognition of a legal spouse resulting in increased allowance for quarters and relocation of the spouse when executing permanent change of station orders. No children required.

2. Military health care for the spouse. No children required.

3. Eligibility for the spouse under Military Survivor Benefits Program if the retired members dies. No children required.

4. For honorably discharged veterans and retirees, burial of the spouse next to the service member in National Veteran's Cemeteries. No children required.

5. Tax free transfer of real property to a spouse. No children required.

6. The exemption from the Estate Tax applicable to the sale of a primary home, only Civil Marriage does that. (When a home is sold a single person can claim up to $250,000 in an exemption, $500,000 for a Civilly Married couple. When one spouse dies the surviving spouse can still claim the married exemption for up to two years after the death if the home is sold. No children required.

7. Spousal privilege against testifying in a criminal court case against a spouse. No children required.

8. Establishment of a family relationship for the spouse under the Family Medical Leave Act so that one spouse can care for an injured or sick spouse in a job protected status. No children required.

9. The ability to file join income tax statements. No children required.

10. Survivor benefits for Social Security whereby a spouse can receive benefits at the deceased spouses rate if they were married for a certain period and the deceased spouses benefit as/is higher then the surviving spouses benefit. No children required.

11. Sponsorship of a spouse for immigration purposes and preferential resident alien status. No children required.

12. Federal exemption from Federal Unemployment Tax when one spouse works for another as part of a small business. No children required.

13. Filing joint bankruptcy. No children required.

14. Legal next-of-kin status recognized by all 50-states and the federal government for emergency medical decisions. No children required.

15. Ability to file wrongful death claims against an individual or organization responsibile for the death of a spouse. No children required.

16. Preferential hiring of spouses of a veteran for federal jobs. No children required.

17. Right of property inheritance upon the death of a spouse under tax free status. No children required.

18. Consideration of spousal income under certain federal insured home loan programs. No children required.

19. Access to Hope and Lifetime learning credit programs for taxes for the education of a spouse. No children required.

20. The additional cost of health care insurance provided by employer to cover a spouse is not treated as taxable income for a legally married spouse. Such coverage for a non-spouse is treated as income for the individual and is therefore taxed. No children required.​

Sorry, I know you only asked for 10, but hey, I was on a roll.

>>>>

 

[garyganu]

Really? Might I suggest you do some research into Rome? That was a damn successful society, man and their culture engaged in what you would call sexual debauchery for several centuries and yet continued to grow in power. How about the Greeks? There was a whole lot of sexual debauchery going on there and they did pretty well. How about Egypt? They had blowout orgies for thousands of years while continuing to grow and expand and increase their power.

When the debauchery became widespread in these societies, it led to their downfall as it is leading to ours.

Dude, I have never seen someone so proudly display their ignorance of history. Sexual liberation was dominant in those societies during their expansion. Indeed, in the case of Rome their collapse coincided with the adoption of Christianity and the sexual repression that comes with it. In other words they started to collapse at about the same time that they stopped engaging in "debauchery". You have it completely fucking backwards.

Causes for the Fall of the Roman Empire: (click on link) Causes for the Fall of the Roman Empire

excerpt: One of the main causes for the Fall of the Roman Empire was the Decline in Morals. The decline in morals, especially in the rich upper classes, nobility and the emperors, had a devastating impact on the Romans. Immoral and promiscuous sexual behaviour including adultery and orgies. Emperors such as Tiberius kept groups of young boys for his pleasure, incest by Nero who also had a male slave castrated so he could take him as his wife, Elagabalus who forced a Vestal Virgin into marriage, Commodus with his harems of concubines enraged Romans by sitting in the theatre or at the games dressed in a woman's garments. The decline in morals also effected the lower classes and slaves. Religious festivals such as Saturnalia and Bacchanalia where sacrifices, ribald songs, lewd acts and sexual promiscuity were practised. Bestiality and other lewd and sexually explicit acts were exhibited in the Colosseum arena to amuse the mob. Brothels and forced prostitution flourished. Widespread gambling on the chariot races and gladiatorial combats. Massive consumption of alcohol. The sadistic cruelty towards both man and beasts in the arena.