1 Small example of Government Regulation fucking a little guy....Me!

[Mr. H.]

Like I said in my earlier post- it's just another cost of doing business. Work it into your bid and pass it along. And be glad you're not operating in Illinois.

 

[Steelplate]

well, I hear him. I can take a guess as to why he may have to carry the higher ins. maybe, there are larger outfits that have lobbied the statehouse to make the ins. necessary larger to force the little guy out...happens all the time.

you know what it takes to cut hair in cali? unreal.

Friend, I'm in one of the most heavily regulated businesses out there. I had a gun salesman, yes, a man who sold live firearms, who was a customer tell me he is not nearly as regulated as we are. So I know it's a pain in the ass. And I'm inspected, unannounced, by the feds, specifically APHIS.

HOWEVER - I do indeed tire of "WAAAAAAAAHHHH! SOMETHING'S NOT GOING RIGHT! IT MUST BE THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT!"

It's the same rules for everyone. Structure it into your price schedule and move on. The government is not a big boogeyman dispatched to get just you.

That is exactly the problem with Big Government. Same rules for everyone. Whether your a big company or small you need to carry the same coverage. If I structure it into my price schedule I would have to charge to much to compete with the bigger guys who can do more volume than me. Why is it so hard for government not to have one size fits all rules. Why can I not buy Insurance That is enough to Cover the homes I work on, and not have to buy 2 to 3 Times as much as I need just because government tells me to.

It's the same thing with Obamacare. Instead of people getting the coverage the need, Like younger people who really only need catastrophic Care coverage. They want to force everyone to pay for the same amount of coverage whether they are going to need it or not.

10 Years ago here in Michigan You could buy insurance based on what you needed not on some arbitrary amount the government decided. It is exactly things like this that stand in the way of small business. Which is exactly what I am trying to be. However when I have to pay so much in Insurance costs that I would need to do about 3 times as much work a month as I can do alone. It means I can't start off small like I did last time. That in order to make it I would need at least 2 Employees right away, and take on all the costs associated with that right off the bat. Just to be able to do enough work to justify the Monthly Insurance costs.

It's just stupid, and just one small example of how well intended government regulations can stifle our economy in ways you do not even think about.

There ya go guy... you just mentioned the solution in your post. The problem isn't regulation in and of itself... it's the way the regulation is geared towards Big Business and tends to handcuff small business. The answer isn't to get rid of regulation, it's to make regulation smarter. I personally think that regulation should be "small business friendly" and actually tougher on big business. Small businesses are simply the lifeblood of our country. But Big business has so much money and power at their disposal that they lobby for these regulations that actually benefit them(because they can afford it) and hurts small businesses(because it reduces and sometime eliminates Competition).

 

[BoycottTheday]

The solution is to be an illegal then you just get paid to do a roof and move on.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

Would you, as an entrepreneur prefer a concept instead of a number?

What I mean is, instead of laws that lean toward dollar amounts of liability, laws worded toward personal responsibility, like "Carry what insurance you want, but if you fuck something up and it's your fault, you're responsible."

'Course it's buyer beware when it comes to hiring a contractor if there's no legal limits to liability and every one of us knows a guy who has bet on himself and lost... can We trust Ourselves?

When I first started as a framing contractor, My insurance requirement was two million.

The avg payment for that construction was 85 hundred.

So are you looking for a more reasonable number, or would you prefer "concept" laws that simply make people responsible for their mistakes without legislating dollar value limits of responsibility?

 

[California Girl]

Yeah! You shut up, Charles! The government has spoken. You will obey! The government knows what's best!

Right, Cuyo?

Thank you, Dave, for another astonishingly profound contribution.

Whereas your first post in this thread was..... what exactly?

Congratulations on making a fool of yourself, Cuyo.

 

[Ernie S.]

So if you ruined someone's house and all their belongings, it's their fault? Not sure I understand.

I'm sure you don't. Why don't you go back and read the thread, this time for comprehension.

 

[Full-Auto]

Would you, as an entrepreneur prefer a concept instead of a number?

What I mean is, instead of laws that lean toward dollar amounts of liability, laws worded toward personal responsibility, like "Carry what insurance you want, but if you fuck something up and it's your fault, you're responsible."

'Course it's buyer beware when it comes to hiring a contractor if there's no legal limits to liability and every one of us knows a guy who has bet on himself and lost... can We trust Ourselves?

When I first started as a framing contractor, My insurance requirement was two million.

The avg payment for that construction was 85 hundred.

So are you looking for a more reasonable number, or would you prefer "concept" laws that simply make people responsible for their mistakes without legislating dollar value limits of responsibility?

First, I thought the figure was excessive.

Second, it wasnt the law but a requirement from the Contractor and I wanted the work.

Third, I do believe insurance should be mandatory. There should also be reasonable exceptions for the type of work.

Re shingling a house has little risk to the house or contents. The rates should acknowledge that.

 

[American Horse]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

Charles, your liability goes to much more than property damage. And the extra liability doesn't really cost you a whole lot more. Much more expensive is the Work Comp Insurance, which for roofers is extremely high.

You may be a small operator (like me) who is lucky to be able to buy insurance at all. The ins. companies, the agents don't make very much off us, and we are more likely to have an accident. Still my liability insurance premiums have gone from 750 a year to 600 a year, owing I thnk, to having a really good (lots of carriers) insurance agency which gets other business from me.

 

[Truthmatters]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

Homes have things inside them that can be damaged, you know antiques and human lives.

If you can not find a way to pay for the insurance then maybe being self employed is not for you.

 

[Cuyo]

Actually it's designed to force small-business owners out of business.

Picking winners and losers.

Crony Economics.

When you never work on a home that costs $1.5 mil what's the point of carrying that amount of insurance other then to make sure a lawyer gets a big paycheck collecting punitive damages in a lawsuit.

If that were the case, why in god's name would the insurance carrier be complicit in this little plot?

Not everything's a conspiracy guys.

Why on Earth wouldn't they? They get a larger premium check, and still cover the same risk.

No, your contemporary 'Mudwhistle' is arguing that the insurance company will have to pay out the $1.5M in punitive damages, hence the only winners are the lawyer for the plaintiff, and of course the actual plaintiff.

 

[Full-Auto]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

Charles, your liability goes to much more than property damage. And the extra liability doesn't really cost you a whole lot more. Much more expensive is the Work Comp Insurance, which for roofers is extremely high.

You may be a small operator (like me) who is lucky to be able to buy insurance at all. The ins. companies, the agents don't make very much off us, and we are more likely to have an accident. Still my liability insurance premiums have gone from 750 a year to 600 a year, owing I thnk, to having a really good (lots of carriers) insurance agency which gets other business from me.

That is also based on the number of employees. But you hit the nail, on the head when talking about L@I GREEDY BASTARDS.

 

[NoNukes]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

1.5 million is not a lot. In order to be a Market Trader in Ireland, you need 6.4 million.

 

[daveman]

Yeah! You shut up, Charles! The government has spoken. You will obey! The government knows what's best!

Right, Cuyo?

Thank you, Dave, for another astonishingly profound contribution.

Oooh. Somebody doesn't like being mocked.

 

[auditor0007]

So, Here are the Basics. I live in Michigan. For the last 25 Years I have worked in the Residential New Construction and Home Improvement Repair Industry in one way or another.

About 15 Years ago I actually ran my own company doing roofing and siding and did pretty well.

Well for Personal Reasons I have for most of the last 10 Years been working for other people rather than myself. However now with the economy the way it is. I have been trying to start up my own Roofing Company again. Believe it or not, while new construction is slow, the home Improvement Industry is doing well. People unable to move are instead putting money into their existing homes.

Well anyways, As a roofer you are required by law to carry certain amounts of Insurance. Both to cover you and any workers when working on someones home, and here where I live I find out that unlike 10 years ago. I now have no choice and have to carry a min of 1.5 Million in Coverage in case we damage a home.

Now 10 years ago you could get much less. most of the houses I work on are worth no more than maybe .5 Million. Why is it now law that I must carry 1.5 Million when I do not work on homes of that Value? Why Can't I carry .5 in coverage and if I do choose to work on a more valuable home, But a rider like you used to be able to do?

It's just one example in millions where government regulations are to one size fit all, and stick it to us all.

I would imagine the increase had something to do with the steady appreciation of houses up until the bust. You do not provide us with the minimum amounts of required coverage from ten years ago, so it is difficult to make a fair determination as to whether this minimum is actually out of line compared to ten years ago or not. If the minimum ten years ago was $1 million in coverage, then the increase in the minimum is just accounting for the increase in home values. On the other hand, if ten years ago the minimum was only $250K, then you have a valid argument.

 

[auditor0007]

But ask any obamabot, they haven't done anything to hurt business, Go ahead and ask them. they'll tell you.

Let's blame Obama for all state regulations too. It's Obama's fault. It's Obama's fault.

 

[AVG-JOE]

well, I hear him. I can take a guess as to why he may have to carry the higher ins. maybe, there are larger outfits that have lobbied the statehouse to make the ins. necessary larger to force the little guy out...happens all the time.

you know what it takes to cut hair in cali? unreal.

Friend, I'm in one of the most heavily regulated businesses out there. I had a gun salesman, yes, a man who sold live firearms, who was a customer tell me he is not nearly as regulated as we are. So I know it's a pain in the ass. And I'm inspected, unannounced, by the feds, specifically APHIS.

HOWEVER - I do indeed tire of "WAAAAAAAAHHHH! SOMETHING'S NOT GOING RIGHT! IT MUST BE THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT!"

It's the same rules for everyone. Structure it into your price schedule and move on. The government is not a big boogeyman dispatched to get just you.

No, in general it is a big bogeyman structured to keep competition down and help the big, politically connected, business charge higher prices.

Unfortunately, this sums up reality fairly well for today.

Anarchy however, is not the answer - there is a place for government, a required place if we want to maintain the lifestyle Americans are accustomed to. The answer begins with simplification of the tax code. Even much of the hated 'regulation' bitched about so eloquently here can be traced back to congress taking upon themselves the power to tax you differently from me, a power NOT given to them by our constitution.

Simple taxes & regulation = fair taxes and regulation.

Fair taxes, a budget balanced by law and then build a government and society our children can be proud of and receive from us with thanks and hope instead of fear and resentment.

 

[Full-Auto]

But ask any obamabot, they haven't done anything to hurt business, Go ahead and ask them. they'll tell you.

Let's blame Obama for all state regulations too. It's Obama's fault. It's Obama's fault.

Isnt the point of the thread on how difficult Government makes it for start ups.

I would like to see you justify expensive premiums for a low risk endeavor.

 

[auditor0007]

well, I hear him. I can take a guess as to why he may have to carry the higher ins. maybe, there are larger outfits that have lobbied the statehouse to make the ins. necessary larger to force the little guy out...happens all the time.

you know what it takes to cut hair in cali? unreal.

Friend, I'm in one of the most heavily regulated businesses out there. I had a gun salesman, yes, a man who sold live firearms, who was a customer tell me he is not nearly as regulated as we are. So I know it's a pain in the ass. And I'm inspected, unannounced, by the feds, specifically APHIS.

HOWEVER - I do indeed tire of "WAAAAAAAAHHHH! SOMETHING'S NOT GOING RIGHT! IT MUST BE THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT!"

It's the same rules for everyone. Structure it into your price schedule and move on. The government is not a big boogeyman dispatched to get just you.

That is exactly the problem with Big Government. Same rules for everyone. Whether your a big company or small you need to carry the same coverage. If I structure it into my price schedule I would have to charge to much to compete with the bigger guys who can do more volume than me. Why is it so hard for government not to have one size fits all rules. Why can I not buy Insurance That is enough to Cover the homes I work on, and not have to buy 2 to 3 Times as much as I need just because government tells me to.

It's the same thing with Obamacare. Instead of people getting the coverage the need, Like younger people who really only need catastrophic Care coverage. They want to force everyone to pay for the same amount of coverage whether they are going to need it or not.

10 Years ago here in Michigan You could buy insurance based on what you needed not on some arbitrary amount the government decided. It is exactly things like this that stand in the way of small business. Which is exactly what I am trying to be. However when I have to pay so much in Insurance costs that I would need to do about 3 times as much work a month as I can do alone. It means I can't start off small like I did last time. That in order to make it I would need at least 2 Employees right away, and take on all the costs associated with that right off the bat. Just to be able to do enough work to justify the Monthly Insurance costs.

It's just stupid, and just one small example of how well intended government regulations can stifle our economy in ways you do not even think about.

Could it possibly be that when they left it up to the contractors to determine how much insurance they needed, many contractors were actually underinsured, and because of this, the state decided that they needed to step in and set a minimum requirement?

 

[LilOlLady]

Government protects your stupid ass in so many ways you are too fucking stupid to understand.
Government regulations protect consumers in the marketplace.

 

[Cuyo]

Yeah! You shut up, Charles! The government has spoken. You will obey! The government knows what's best!

Right, Cuyo?

Thank you, Dave, for another astonishingly profound contribution.

Oooh. Somebody doesn't like being mocked.

Yes Hank Hill, you've hurt me deeply.