Zone1 your subjective truth is not necessarily Truth, period

[hadit]

Fork doesn't speak for all Catholics. He doesn't know the Bible very well.

The danger is his continued attempts to sow division in the body by claiming only those in his narrow sect of Catholicism are real Christians, excluding all those who are not but have faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[hadit]

Too bad you don't have much charity. The Word say if you are lacking charity, even if you give up you life, you are as a clanging cymbal

1 Corinthians 13​

​

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

​

13 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up;

5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

What is the charitable thing to do when a brother espouses dangerous heresy?

 

[Meriweather]

You did say that Jesus didn't do it all,

Quote me

If you go beyond us simply accepting His gift of salvation and putting our faith in Him, then you are requiring works.

The gift is to be used

We've been over this, and your belief about how Protestants view salvation is insulting.

Oh? And what do you think I believe about how Protestants view salvation?

 

[hadit]

Quote me

"Easier just to believe that Jesus did it all in a single moment of time and all that is needed is to believe and, upon death, one enters heaven."

The gift is to be used

Of course it's to be used, but to denigrate the completeness of what Christ did through His death and resurrection is wrong. He did everything necessary for salvation, period.

Oh? And what do you think I believe about how Protestants view salvation?

You believe they view it in minimalist terms, like they don't have to do anything and nothing is expected of them after they are saved. If that were true, there would be no Protestant churches preaching anything beyond, "Walk the sawdust trail, say a prayer and everything's fine for eternity". There would be no ongoing, in-depth study and preaching of Scripture, there would be no weekly preaching of Christ's commandments and how to live the Christian life. There would be no weekly meetings in which members of the Body encourage each other, listen to each other's struggles, confess sin and receive help. In short, I get the impression from what you say about Protestants that you know as much about them and their beliefs as the average Protestant knows about Catholics.

 

[Meriweather]

"Easier just to believe that Jesus did it all in a single moment of time and all that is needed is to believe and, upon death, one enters heaven."

I said that was what some others seem to believe, not what I believe.

 

[Meriweather]

Of course it's to be used, but to denigrate the completeness of what Christ did through His death and resurrection is wrong. He did everything necessary for salvation, period.

No one is denigrating what Christ did. That's insulting.

What you keep missing is that Christ did everything necessary for salvation, for those who choose and participate in Christ's work of salvation. What is so hard to accept about that!

 

[Meriweather]

You believe they view it in minimalist terms, like they don't have to do anything and nothing is expected of them after they are saved.

A minimalist view is not anything close to "nothing is expected" of them. Don't you read? Isn't it common knowledge they must believe and have faith?!

 

[hadit]

No one is denigrating what Christ did. That's insulting.

What you keep missing is that Christ did everything necessary for salvation,

That is correct. We need only to accept it and put our faith in what He did. That faith then leads us to obey Him, which is what Protestants do for the rest of their lives, because they love and want to please Him.

for those who choose and participate in Christ's work of salvation. What is so hard to accept about that!

And there you had to add to it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to choose and participate in His work of salvation. It says faith without works is dead, but it does not say to be saved we have to believe and take up a lifetime of work. It says we ARE saved, and because we are, we can obey Him because we are given power to overcome sin. And what are His commands? To love God with all our hearts, minds, souls, (everything we have), and to love our neighbors like we do ourselves. If we obey those, we obey all of them. The Bible even talks about those whose faith is credited to them for righteousness but do not work (Romans 4:5). Do you condemn them as not being saved?

 

[forkintheroad7]

The danger is his continued attempts to sow division in the body by claiming only those in his narrow sect of Catholicism are real Christians, excluding all those who are not but have faith in Jesus Christ.

who died and made YOU the JUDGE of another person's motives?

You are so into projection, presumption and CONDEMNING

 

[forkintheroad7]

And there you had to add to it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to choose and participate in His work of salvation

Your heresy is showing (again), along with your hard-headed belligerence.

Where does it say a person does not have to participate.. Oh, wait-- you are now saying one does not even have to CHOOSE Jesus to be saved!

OMG.. you people wax worse and worse every day

I guess you just like (accept) certain parts of the Bible.. certainly NOT the part that says Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.. (Phil 2:12)

Selective scripture acceptance!

 

[forkintheroad7]

Jesus said the thief would be with HIM in paradise. As long as I am with Jesus after I die, I will be very happy indeed.

I and everyone else here can see you have NO Christian charity.
You may want to check out Mt 18:23

which PROVES you can indeed lose the Gift given you by God (forgiveness).

Unless you want to throw that verse out along with Phil 2:12.. which wouldn't surprise us

 

[hadit]

who died and made YOU the JUDGE of another person's motives?

You are so into projection, presumption and CONDEMNING

Okay, here's your chance. Why DO you want to claim that only those who belong to your narrow sect of Catholicism are true Christians? You made that claim, why did you make it?

I disagree with it and I've stated why I do. You don't like what I said about your motivations, tell us different.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Okay, here's your chance. Why DO you want to claim that only those who belong to your narrow sect of Catholicism are true Christians? You made that claim, why did you make it?

I disagree with it and I've stated why I do. You don't like what I said about your motivations, tell us different.

You can do your owning seeking and finding, like I did.. I'm 99% DONE with explaining anything to Protestants, other than what I write here and there

 

[hadit]

I and everyone else here can see you have NO Christian charity.
You may want to check out Mt 18:23
which PROVES you can indeed lose the Gift given you by God (forgiveness).

Okay, here is that verse quoted:

"23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants."

That's really not controversial, so I have to assume you meant the parable about the servants that were entrusted with the king's wealth, him going away for a while, the demanding an accounting on his return.

Where have I said that you cannot lose your salvation? I am of the opinion that you can indeed throw away God's precious gift of salvation, but no one can take it from you. You have to actively choose to turn your back on Him, and even then He will not stop pleading with you to return. Now, let's look at what you so irresponsibly said. You said you can lose your forgiveness. No, you cannot, because to God, once He forgives, it's gone forever. The only sin He will not forgive is the sin unrepented.

Unless you want to throw that verse out along with Phil 2:12.. which wouldn't surprise us

Ah, yes, one of your favorite verses you use to "prove" that salvation is works based. Let's quote it here in context so we can have a better understanding of what's being said:

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

This verse in no way is to be taken to mean that you have to work in order to be saved. It is, instead, an admonition from Paul to take seriously the Christian life and to SHOW the world that you follow Christ by obeying His commands. And what are His commands? To love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and to love your neighbors like you do yourself. Notice the very start of the passage where he is urging the brotherhood to be united in Christ, not splintered or fighting (sound familiar? I would include trying to say believers are outside the faith because they don't belong to a specific sect of Catholicism).

Now, since you like to play the "throw this verse away" game, here's one for you from Romans 4. Are you going to just throw away verse 5, or will you deal with it?

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

 

[hadit]

You can do your owning seeking and finding, like I did.. I'm 99% DONE with explaining anything to Protestants, other than what I write here and there

That is a copout. You made a claim that you now won't back up. You complain when I call you out on it, but don't want to address it. Do better.

 

[forkintheroad7]

That is a copout. You made a claim that you now won't back up. You complain when I call you out on it, but don't want to address it. Do better.

You call it a cop out (that is not one word, btw)

I call it you are playing games and I have.. (get this)

had it

So yeh, here's my signature response to BS. Maybe you know what this means? If not, who cares?

 

[Meriweather]

And there you had to add to it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to choose and participate in His work of salvation. It says faith without works is dead, but it does not say to be saved we have to believe and take up a lifetime of work. It says we ARE saved, and because we are, we can obey Him because we are given power to overcome sin. And what are His commands? To love God with all our hearts, minds, souls, (everything we have), and to love our neighbors like we do ourselves. If we obey those, we obey all of them. The Bible even talks about those whose faith is credited to them for righteousness but do not work (Romans 4:5). Do you condemn them as not being saved?

You haven't a clue what I even mean. You still think I am talking about works when I am talking about salvation. Do you see salvation as work? Is that the problem, that you believe salvation is synonymous with work?

 

[forkintheroad7]

Okay, here is that verse quoted:


r

Don't waste your time writing to ME because I'm not reading anything from you anymore. I've had it (ha ha) with your hideous attitude toward people who....

are not you.

And thank God I'm not

 

[forkintheroad7]

You haven't a clue what I even mean. You still think I am talking about works when I am talking about salvation. Do you see salvation as work? Is that the problem, that you believe salvation is synonymous with work?

But it is. If you just sit on your hands and do nothing for Christ and his Kingdom, how can you say you love Jesus?

Jesus said "If you love Me you will keep My commandments"

And His commandments involve that 4 letter word: WORK.

It is WORK to care for the needy, those who do not have what many Americans take for granted. It is WORK dealing with heretics (I'm not sure I want to continue with that particular work.. may be hopeless). It is work to go to Mass when maybe you don't like the priest much and etc...... etc..

 

[hadit]

You call it a cop out (that is not one word, btw)

I call it you are playing games and I have.. (get this)

had it

So yeh, here's my signature response to BS. Maybe you know what this means? If not, who cares?

View attachment 1006909

My bad. I thought you were serious about the Christian faith, but here we are... I am quite serious. Here's the bottom line:

You maintain that only those in certain sects of Catholicism are actual Christians. Having stated that, you refuse to defend it. Embarrassed maybe?
I maintain that everyone who calls on Jesus Christ for forgiveness and follows Him is a Christian. I defend that stance with Scripture.

You maintain that the Catholic church is the only true church because it started soon after Christ's ascension. You ignore the Orthodox churches started by the Apostles themselves in Africa and Asia long before Rome got involved. This is a slap in the face to them.
I maintain that it is irrelevant when a denomination started, because all who do what Christ said they need to do to be saved are Christians, no matter what name is on the church door. I respect churches that stay true to Scripture and faith and do not get bogged down with the addition of man's rituals and appearances.