Zone1 your subjective truth is not necessarily Truth, period

[Meriweather]

I've learned from interacting with protestants for some 20+ years that they do not listen to anything a Catholic says.. unless MAYBe they would listen to a priest or bishop but not some everyday (supposedly) Catholic on the internet.

Perhaps there is a different perspective from "anti-Catholic" malice. One of the first things I notice about non-Catholic Christians is what I call minimalism. They bypass the Sacraments, participation in God's work (i.e., the Mass), Apostolic traditions, etc. Compared to friars, priests, and nuns, I am a minimalist myself. However...just because we don't all have the same focus, are we any less members of the Body of Christ, of God's family. Perhaps God is simply calling us to serve in different ways.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Perhaps there is a different perspective from "anti-Catholic" malice. One of the first things I notice about non-Catholic Christians is what I call minimalism. They bypass the Sacraments, participation in God's work (i.e., the Mass), Apostolic traditions, etc. Compared to friars, priests, and nuns, I am a minimalist myself. However...just because we don't all have the same focus, are we any less members of the Body of Christ, of God's family. Perhaps God is simply calling us to serve in different ways.

I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean, so I can't comment at this time. I get the part about minimalism. That describes Protestant theology fairly well, no matter which branch thereof. But I don't get the rest of it

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean, so I can't comment at this time. I get the part about minimalism. That describes Protestant theology fairly well, no matter which branch thereof. But I don't get the rest of it

Some don't have the time, energy, or enough desire to be strong participants in God's plan of salvation. Catholicism is about participating in God's plans, God's work. Easier just to believe that Jesus did it all in a single moment of time and all that is needed is to believe and, upon death, one enters heaven.

 

[Woodznutz]

Then, since we're in Religion, there are all those Catholic haters who absolutely REFUSE to give the Catholic Church credit for having any Truth whatsoever, denying at EVERY turn that the CC was the ONLY Christian Church in the world until the 16th century.. never mind the fact that it still is the only truly Christian Church in the world, which makes sense.. Jesus only founded ONE Church... (not hard to count them)..

God hid the true church from you guys until the 16th century. Read Revelation 12. The printing of the Bible for all to see exposed the Catholic church for what it was, the false church.

 

[hadit]

Well, someone else will have to respond to this because i seem to have reached my quota for anti-Catholic malice.

I've learned from interacting with protestants for some 20+ years that they do not listen to anything a Catholic says.. unless MAYBe they would listen to a priest or bishop but not some everyday (supposedly) Catholic on the internet.

Yeh, I kind of got tired of feeling like this in said interactions:

Maybe if you stopped trying to exclude Christians from the Body of Christ because they don't belong to your narrow division of Catholicism, you wouldn't be doing that so much.

 

[hadit]

Some don't have the time, energy, or enough desire to be strong participants in God's plan of salvation. Catholicism is about participating in God's plans, God's work. Easier just to believe that Jesus did it all in a single moment of time and all that is needed is to believe and, upon death, one enters heaven.

If you disparage that Biblical teaching in such a way, you clearly do not understand salvation. One who takes that approach is not in relationship with God. Yes, Jesus did it all on the cross and in His resurrection. I literally can do nothing to be saved, HE has to do it all. If there was one thing I could do to be saved, I would be in a position where I could claim to be holier than someone who did not do that thing, but that's not what God wants. When I am saved, I am transformed, renewed, no longer the same. I act and talk differently. I don't want to follow the world anymore, I am a new creature. As Paul said, do I now have a license to sin so that God's Grace may abound? God forbid. You seem to hold the attitude that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT enough, that you have to DO more to EARN salvation, and that is totally false. I have yet to see an answer to these, if you can DO to earn salvation where someone who does NOT won't earn it,

1. How much is enough? At what point can I say to God, "Okay, I've done all that I need to do. Let me in now"?
2. How superior can I feel over those who don't earn as much salvation as me?

If simple faith was enough for the thief on the cross beside Jesus, It's enough for me. A Christian is saved by faith, then spends the rest of his life trying to everything he can to please God through relationship and works.

 

[hadit]

I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean, so I can't comment at this time. I get the part about minimalism. That describes Protestant theology fairly well, no matter which branch thereof. But I don't get the rest of it

If that's what you think about Protestantism, you don't know anything about Protestantism. We spend our entire lives studying the Word, praying, worshipping and listening for God's leading on how He wants us to love and care for our neighbors. What we don't do is burden ourselves with tons of guilt, "shoulds", incantations, rote and meaningless actions, things like that. If it's not meaningful from the heart and all you're doing is chanting Latin words you don't understand, why do it?

 

[forkintheroad7]

If that's what you think about Protestantism, you don't know anything about Protestantism. We spend our entire lives studying the Word, praying, worshipping and listening for God's leading on how He wants us to love and care for our neighbors. What we don't do is burden ourselves with tons of guilt, "shoulds", incantations, rote and meaningless actions, things like that. If it's not meaningful from the heart and all you're doing is chanting Latin words you don't understand, why do it?

Too bad you don't have much charity. The Word say if you are lacking charity, even if you give up you life, you are as a clanging cymbal

1 Corinthians 13​

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

​

13 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up;

5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[Meriweather]

You seem to hold the attitude that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT enough, that you have to DO more to EARN salvation

You haven't the faintest idea of what I said. It's insulting.

 

[forkintheroad7]

You seem to hold the attitude that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT enough, that you have to DO more to EARN salvation--

If simple faith was enough for the thief on the cross beside Jesus,

you are so uneducated RE Christian history. The thief was NOT in Heaven on the day he and Jesus died. Paradise is not Heaven. But you have to be a scholar to know that and the details on it and you are no Bible scholar. I'm not officially one either but at least I know that everyone who dies does not go directly to Heaven. In fact Jesus said that most people don't make it.. even via Purgatory

 

[forkintheroad7]

Maybe if you stopped trying to exclude Christians from the Body of Christ because they don't belong to your narrow division of Catholicism, you wouldn't be doing that so much.

Oh, I didn't know they were excluded just because the mighty Forkintheroad excluded them..

kinda comical....

 

[forkintheroad7]

You seem to hold the attitude that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT enough, that you have to DO more to EARN salvation, and that is

Catholics (for the 1000th time!) do not believe salvation is something to be earned. You protestants just keep using that bs because you really don't have much else and do not accept the true Catholic view on salvation. And you just need a cudgel to beat up Catholics with.

Quit accusing Catholics of dumbass things they do not believe in. It is SO dishonest. And it is obvious that you have not been renewed or you wouldn't show such hostility and hatred for other Christians (assuming you are one, which, technically, you are a heretic).

Jesus did not do everything for you on the Cross. YOU have to respond to Jesus. Otherwise, His story is just another story in your life, along with countless others. It's just an intellectual thing. It's like a big buffet you go to. It doesn't do you any good if you just say Oh, what a great buffet. But I'm not going to do anything because the chef did it all..

yeh, that's how much sense your belief on salvation makes

 

[forkintheroad7]

If that's what you think about Protestantism, you don't know anything about Protestantism.

You are heretics.

Either Catholicism is true or Protestantism is. The former was founded by Christ himself and dates back to the beginning of the first century AD. Protestantism began in the 16th century.. kind of late on the scene, I'd say..

You are a heretic

 

[surada]

If you disparage that Biblical teaching in such a way, you clearly do not understand salvation. One who takes that approach is not in relationship with God. Yes, Jesus did it all on the cross and in His resurrection. I literally can do nothing to be saved, HE has to do it all. If there was one thing I could do to be saved, I would be in a position where I could claim to be holier than someone who did not do that thing, but that's not what God wants. When I am saved, I am transformed, renewed, no longer the same. I act and talk differently. I don't want to follow the world anymore, I am a new creature. As Paul said, do I now have a license to sin so that God's Grace may abound? God forbid. You seem to hold the attitude that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT enough, that you have to DO more to EARN salvation, and that is totally false. I have yet to see an answer to these, if you can DO to earn salvation where someone who does NOT won't earn it,

1. How much is enough? At what point can I say to God, "Okay, I've done all that I need to do. Let me in now"?
2. How superior can I feel over those who don't earn as much salvation as me?

If simple faith was enough for the thief on the cross beside Jesus, It's enough for me. A Christian is saved by faith, then spends the rest of his life trying to everything he can to please God through relationship and works.

Fork doesn't speak for all Catholics. He doesn't know the Bible very well.

 

[surada]

You are heretics.

Either Catholicism is true or Protestantism is. The former was founded by Christ himself and dates back to the beginning of the first century AD. Protestantism began in the 16th century.. kind of late on the scene, I'd say..

You are a heretic

You are a hostile idiot. You don't know anything about Isaiah or Cyrus.

 

[hadit]

you are so uneducated RE Christian history. The thief was NOT in Heaven on the day he and Jesus died. Paradise is not Heaven. But you have to be a scholar to know that and the details on it and you are no Bible scholar. I'm not officially one either but at least I know that everyone who dies does not go directly to Heaven. In fact Jesus said that most people don't make it.. even via Purgatory

Jesus said the thief would be with HIM in paradise. As long as I am with Jesus after I die, I will be very happy indeed.

 

[hadit]

You are heretics.

Either Catholicism is true or Protestantism is. The former was founded by Christ himself and dates back to the beginning of the first century AD. Protestantism began in the 16th century.. kind of late on the scene, I'd say..

You are a heretic

You are being dishonest about Church history. How can you pretend that the Church Luther and his contemporaries split from is the same Church that Jesus founded? It most clearly was NOT the same. Go on, try to show us how it was the same church, and we will show you how it was not.

And I cannot help but notice how you AGAIN studiously ignore the Orthodox Churches that were founded long before Rome came into the picture.

 

[hadit]

Catholics (for the 1000th time!) do not believe salvation is something to be earned. You protestants just keep using that bs because you really don't have much else and do not accept the true Catholic view on salvation. And you just need a cudgel to beat up Catholics with.

Quit accusing Catholics of dumbass things they do not believe in. It is SO dishonest. And it is obvious that you have not been renewed or you wouldn't show such hostility and hatred for other Christians (assuming you are one, which, technically, you are a heretic).

Jesus did not do everything for you on the Cross. YOU have to respond to Jesus. Otherwise, His story is just another story in your life, along with countless others. It's just an intellectual thing. It's like a big buffet you go to. It doesn't do you any good if you just say Oh, what a great buffet. But I'm not going to do anything because the chef did it all..

yeh, that's how much sense your belief on salvation makes

I've laid out for you countless times what a person must do to be saved, and how his actions afterword reflect that salvation. You choose to ignore that.

 

[hadit]

Oh, I didn't know they were excluded just because the mighty Forkintheroad excluded them..

kinda comical....

You've said that those not in your division of Catholicism are not true Christians. Unless you want to disavow that, you ARE trying to exclude from the body people who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[hadit]

You haven't the faintest idea of what I said. It's insulting.

You did say that Jesus didn't do it all, that we must do something as well. If you go beyond us simply accepting His gift of salvation and putting our faith in Him, then you are requiring works. We've been over this, and your belief about how Protestants view salvation is insulting.