Zone1 Are there truths that you would be willing to get kicked out of a church or synagogue for?

[Carl in Michigan]

Yes, I was baptized in the Worldwide Church of God in 1979.

Me, '78

 

[Woodznutz]

Me, 1973.

 

[Woodznutz]

Possibly fulfilled in WW2.

Based on who the allies were it would be surprising if WW2 were not part of Ezekiel's prophecy.

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes, I was baptized in the Worldwide Church of God in 1979.

silly question, was your choice out of fear ...

 

[DennisPTate]

silly question, was your choice out of fear ...

No, I am really glad to have been a member of the Worldwide Church of God until 1991. Pastor Jack Kost was awesome and he had a theme in his sermons that our Creator knows everything about us. That fact is verified by the Life Review of near death experience accounts in a way that Pastor Kost did not know about.

Although near death experience accounts have taken me off in a different direction I feel that my time in the WWCG prepared me to have a deep appreciation for NDE accounts and the truths that are being revealed through them that finally explain the prophecies of the Bible.

 

[BreezeWood]

- that finally explain the prophecies of the Bible.

that who are not baptized will not enter the gates of heaven ...

 

[DennisPTate]

that who are not baptized will not enter the gates of heaven ...

Baptism is certainly a powerful sign that we have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus. I believe that some may make it to heaven just from prayer and calling on Jesus and learning to love others, but it is important to get baptized too.

 

[BreezeWood]

but it is important to get baptized too.

who's importance, christianities monopoly they claim for jesus, jesus was "baptized" that's a ringer - is that mary also who lived without sin or were she a jew or otherwise will not be with their son in the heavens.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Based on who the allies were it would be surprising if WW2 were not part of Ezekiel's prophecy.

Which one Wood?

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

But.. is it my buddies the Jehovah's Witnesses....
[who I happen to like very much because I had amazing fellowship and discussion with the local J. W. missionary beginning perahps in 1974 or '75], who are wrong about the State of the Dead..... or is it my Roman Catholic friends who have a rather interesting theory with their ideas on Purgatory?


I have a hard time ruling out the 1943 near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie?

I'll say it again,........... You ignore at least Ten Very Clear SCriptures that state that when we die, we sleep, & know nothing.

 

[DennisPTate]

I'll say it again,........... You ignore at least Ten Very Clear SCriptures that state that when we die, we sleep, & know nothing.

I am not ignoring them I simply understand them differently now that I don't have much choice anymore.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (NKJV)​

"For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten."

Near death experiencers do report that once their spirit leaves this body they begin to forget this life. Robert Marshall was told during his near death experience that if he chose to remain in heaven he would have the memories of his wife and children taken from him until they would be there with him.

Within a few moment of our spirit being outside of our bodies we realize that what we were all worried and concerned about while we were human is of very little eternal value or concern.

The following verses are much more clear and less easy to misunderstand.

1It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. " [2 Corinthians 12: 1 - 5]
These verses clearly show that not even the Apostle Paul would rule out the possibility of our consciousness being outside of our bodies.
Matthew chapter four may have taken place largely in the out of the body state because forty days of fasting will certainly put anybody to the place where they are near death.
During near death experiences people report being able to move around from one place to another at the speed of thought just like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus goes to a high mount and views all the kingdoms of the world rapidly.
"1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
5Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
8Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him."
[Matthew 4: 1 - 11]

 

[Woodznutz]

Which one Wood?

Ezekiel 5:4 states that a "fire" (conflagration) would erupt in all of the "house of Israel". WW2 was such a conflagration involving most of the identifiable descendants of Israel re the entire Christian west, even including the wayward descendants of Benjamin; Russia. Of course, this could be viewed as a horrible precursor to an actual end time event of even greater magnitude.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

I am not ignoring them I simply understand them differently now that I don't have much choice anymore.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (NKJV)​

"For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten."

Near death experiencers do report that once their spirit leaves this body they begin to forget this life. Robert Marshall was told during his near death experience that if he chose to remain in heaven he would have the memories of his wife and children taken from him until they would be there with him.

Within a few moment of our spirit being outside of our bodies we realize that what we were all worried and concerned about while we were human is of very little eternal value or concern.

The following verses are much more clear and less easy to misunderstand.

1It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. " [2 Corinthians 12: 1 - 5]
These verses clearly show that not even the Apostle Paul would rule out the possibility of our consciousness being outside of our bodies.
Matthew chapter four may have taken place largely in the out of the body state because forty days of fasting will certainly put anybody to the place where they are near death.
During near death experiences people report being able to move around from one place to another at the speed of thought just like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus goes to a high mount and views all the kingdoms of the world rapidly.
"1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
5Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
8Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him."
[Matthew 4: 1 - 11]

April 20,2019

Psa 88:4 I am counted among those who go down into the pit. I am like a man who has no help,
Psa 88:5 set apart among the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more. They are cut off from your hand.

Psa 88:10 Do you show wonders to the dead? Do the departed spirits rise up and praise you? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Is your loving kindness declared in the grave? Or your faithfulness in Destruction?
Psa 88:12 Are your wonders made known in the dark? Or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psa 115:17 The dead don’t praise Yah, neither any who go down into silence;
Psa 115:18 But we will bless Yah, from this time forward and forever more. Praise Yah!
----------

Psa 89:48 What man is he who shall live and not see death, who shall deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

------
Isa 38:15 What will I say? He has both spoken to me, and himself has done it. I will walk carefully all my years because of the anguish of my soul.
Isa 38:16 Lord, men live by these things; and my spirit finds life in all of them: you restore me, and cause me to live.
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great anguish, but you have in love for my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption; for you have cast all my sins behind your back.
Isa 38:18 For Sheol can’t praise you. Death can’t celebrate you. Those who go down into the pit can’t hope for your truth.
Isa 38:19 The living, the living, he shall praise you, as I do today. The father shall make known your truth to the children.
-----------

Act 7:59 They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
Act 7:60 He kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, “Lord, don’t hold this sin against them!” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
----------

Luk 8:49 While he still spoke, one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house came, saying to him, “Your daughter is dead. Don’t trouble the Teacher.”
Luk 8:50 But Jesus hearing it, answered him, “Don’t be afraid. Only believe, and she will be healed.”
Luk 8:51 When he came to the house, he didn’t allow anyone to enter in, except Peter, John, James, the father of the child, and her mother.
Luk 8:52 All were weeping and mourning her, but he said, “Don’t weep. She isn’t dead, but sleeping.”
Luk 8:53 They were ridiculing him, knowing that she was dead.
-----
Job 7:21 Why do you not pardon my disobedience, and take away my iniquity? For now shall I lie down in the dust. You will seek me diligently, but I shall not be.”
----------

Job 10:18 “‘Why, then, have you brought me out of the womb? I wish I had given up the spirit, and no eye had seen me.
Job 10:19 I should have been as though I had not been. I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
Job 10:20 Aren’t my days few? Cease then. Leave me alone, that I may find a little comfort,
Job 10:21 before I go where I shall not return from, to the land of darkness and of the shadow of death;
Job 10:22 the land dark as midnight, of the shadow of death, without any order, where the light is as midnight.’”
--------------
Job 11:20 But the eyes of the wicked shall fail. They shall have no way to flee. Their hope shall be the giving up of the spirit.”
---------
Job 14:10 But man dies, and is laid low. Yes, man gives up the spirit, and where is he?
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the river wastes and dries up,
Job 14:12 so man lies down and doesn’t rise. Until the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 “Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,that you would keep me secret, until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my warfare would I wait, until my release should come.
Job 14:15 You would call, and I would answer you. You would have a desire to the work of your hands.

Job 14:21 His sons come to honor, and he doesn’t know it. They are brought low, but he doesn’t perceive it of them.
Job 14:22 But his flesh on him has pain, and his soul within him mourns.”
-----

1Ma 2:62 And be not afraid of the words of a sinful man; for his glory shall be dung and worms.
1Ma 2:63 To-day he shall be lifted up, and tomorrow he shall in no wise be found, because he is returned to his dust, and his thought is perished.
----------------

Sir 17:27 Who will give praise to the Most High in the grave, Instead of them which live and return thanks?
Sir 17:28 Thanksgiving perishes from the dead, as from one that is not: He that is in life and health will praise the Lord.
---------------

Gen_47:30 but when I sleep with my fathers, you shall carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their burying place.” Joseph said, “I will do as you have said.”

2Sa_7:12 When your days are fulfilled, and you sleep with your fathers, I will set up your offspring after you, who will proceed out of your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, sleep in glory, everyone in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But you are cast away from your tomb like an abominable branch, clothed with the slain, who are thrust through with the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit; like a dead body trodden under foot.

Dan_12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1Co_15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

Eph_5:14 Therefore he says, “Awake, you who sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

1Th_5:10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

2Es 2:31 Remember your children that sleep, for I shall bring them out of the secret places of the earth, and show mercy to them: for I am merciful, says the Lord Almighty.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Ezekiel 5:4 states that a "fire" (conflagration) would erupt in all of the "house of Israel". WW2 was such a conflagration involving most of the identifiable descendants of Israel re the entire Christian west, even including the wayward descendants of Benjamin; Russia. Of course, this could be viewed as a horrible precursor to an actual end time event of even greater magnitude.

Interesting.

I've wondered whether that was speaking of 70AD, or for a later time, especially The Last Days.

 

[Hafar1014]

2?

That quickly happened when I was 18 years old.

I've either left, or were kicked out of, at least 30 "Cult like Churches (Protestant in one fashion or another)".

And, although I have many of the Magazines, Books, etc.,..... The "Philadelphia Church of God" BLACKLISTED Me, cuz' I began to question several teachings, where The Scriptures, &/or Physical Facts Defied a Teaching.

And as far as Your "near death experiencers",...... They are not Scriptural.

Who cares they are true and the Scriptures are just a mans opinion

 

[Woodznutz]

Interesting.

I've wondered whether that was speaking of 70AD, or for a later time, especially The Last Days.

70AD involved only the Jews. It likely refers to the end time when events in Judea (the State of Israel) will draw the descendant nations of the rest of Israel in.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

70AD involved only the Jews. It likely refers to the end time when events in Judea (the State of Israel) will draw the descendant nations of the rest of Israel in.

That is True Wood.

At this moment, I can't recall whether Cannibalism (Eze 5:10), existed in Yerusalem/Jerusalem when it was under siege by Rome in 70AD.

Eze 5:1 “You, son of man, take a sharp sword. You shall take it as a barber’s razor to yourself, and shall cause it to pass over your head and over your beard. Then take balances to weigh and divide the hair.
Eze 5:2 A third part you shall burn in the fire in the middle of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled. You shall take a third part, and strike with the sword around it. A third part you shall scatter to the wind, and I will draw out a sword after them.
Eze 5:3 You shall take of it a few in number, and bind them in the folds of your robe.
Eze 5:4 Of these again you shall take, and cast them into the middle of the fire, and burn them in the fire. From it a fire will come out into all the house of Israel.
Eze 5:5 “Thus says the Lord Yahweh: ‘This is Jerusalem. I have set her in the middle of the nations, and countries are around her.
Eze 5:6 She has rebelled against my ordinances in doing wickedness more than the nations, and against my statutes more than the countries that are around her; for they have rejected my ordinances, and as for my statutes, they have not walked in them.’
Eze 5:7 “Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: ‘Because you are more turbulent than the nations that are around you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have followed the ordinances of the nations that are around you;
Eze 5:8 therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: ‘Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments among you in the sight of the nations.
Eze 5:9 I will do in you that which I have not done, and which I will not do anything like it any more, because of all your abominations.
Eze 5:10 Therefore the fathers will eat the sons within you, and the sons will eat their fathers. I will execute judgments on you; and I will scatter the whole remnant of you to all the winds.
Eze 5:11 Therefore as I live,’ says the Lord Yahweh, ‘surely, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your detestable things, and with all your abominations, therefore I will also diminish you. My eye won’t spare, and I will have no pity.
Eze 5:12 A third part of you will die with the pestilence, and they will be consumed with famine within you. A third part will fall by the sword around you. A third part I will scatter to all the winds, and will draw out a sword after them.
Eze 5:13 “‘Thus my anger will be accomplished, and I will cause my wrath toward them to rest, and I will be comforted. They will know that I, Yahweh, have spoken in my zeal, when I have accomplished my wrath on them.
Eze 5:14 “‘Moreover I will make you a desolation and a reproach among the nations that are around you, in the sight of all that pass by.
Eze 5:15 So it will be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment, to the nations that are around you, when I execute judgments on you in anger and in wrath, and in wrathful rebukes—I, Yahweh, have spoken it—
Eze 5:16 when I send on them the evil arrows of famine that are for destruction, which I will send to destroy you. I will increase the famine on you, and will break your staff of bread.
Eze 5:17 I will send on you famine and evil animals, and they will bereave you. Pestilence and blood will pass through you. I will bring the sword on you. I, Yahweh, have spoken it.’”

 

[Woodznutz]

That is True Wood.

At this moment, I can't recall whether Cannibalism (Eze 5:10), existed in Yerusalem/Jerusalem when it was under siege by Rome in 70AD.

Josephus reported a single incident of cannibalism during siege, which was quite horrific, even to the Romans.

The Jewish War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lisa558]

I'll say it again,........... You ignore at least Ten Very Clear SCriptures that state that when we die, we sleep, & know nothing.

True, “The dead know nothing.”

From Ecclesiastes.

 

[Woodznutz]

True, “The dead know nothing.”

From Ecclesiastes.

Heck, some of the living know nothing.