Zone1 "Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses"

[ding]

No. Christians separated from both Jesus and Judaism as soon as Paul went spewing his nonsense in full spate.

It had always been since Jesus was alive a matter of intelligent and dedicate Jewish people trying to discern the will of God through rational thought and arguments that persist to this day. Is Kosher Law about food or is it outdated, relevant to people who lived long ago. Is the subject of flesh in kosher law teaching, as Jesus implied by saying, "eat my flesh"? YES. This will always be relevant to humanity and never become obsolete instruction.

Here is the wisdom of God. You are the perfect example of a person who has set aside that instruction. Its scary.

No one but you thinks that’s the divide Jesus was talking about.

 

[ding]

According to FoghornLeghorn there is no eternal life. 'Everlasting does not mean everlasting'.

Quantrill

Sounds like semantics.

 

[norwegen]

No, that Body was 100% human as Jesus was 100 % human. Jesus was both 100% Man and 100% God. The God/Man.

After His resurrection Jesus could conceal Who He was to whomever He wanted to. That doesn't take away from His being Man and His resurrected Body being a human body.

Jesus was always a Servant, The Servant. Not just after death.

Quantrill

Incorrect.

After his resurrection, Jesus was transforming. The gospel of Mark says so unequivocally.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

According to FoghornLeghorn there is no eternal life. 'Everlasting does not mean everlasting'.

Quantrill

Come on brother, let us not be like that. We are first and foremost brothers in Christ. Let's not mock fellow brothers and sisters over a single, doctrinal, difference.

 

[Quantrill]

Sounds like semantics.

No, it is what he said.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Incorrect.

After his resurrection, Jesus was transforming. The gospel of Mark says so unequivocally.

No, not in how you are describing 'transforming'. If (Mark) says so, give the Scripture and explain.

Jesus was/is the God/Man. 100% God and 100% Man. From the day He was born.

(Is. 7:14) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Beholld, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

(Matt. 1:22-23) "Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being intererpreted is, God with us."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Come on brother, let us not be like that. We are first and foremost brothers in Christ. Let's not mock fellow brothers and sisters over a single, doctrinal, difference.

I am not mocking. It is what you said. And what you refuse to correct.

And, as far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on your flippant term of 'brother'. Doctrinal difference is important.

Quantrill

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

I am not mocking. It is what you said. And what you refuse to correct.

The problem with forever punishment is that it contradicts a plethora of scriptures. The Bibles on which you rely have mistranslated the ancient Koine Greek word "aionios". At this point, it is evident that are cemented to your theology and lack the humility to consider the possibility that you're understanding is mistaken. Your theology is that Jesus runs a forever and purposeless torture chamber. Oh well. One day you'll know better, although not necessarily in this lifetime.

 

[ding]

The problem with forever punishment is that it contradicts a plethora of scriptures. The Bibles on which you rely have mistranslated the ancient Koine Greek word "aionios". At this point, it is evident that are cemented to your theology and lack the humility to consider the possibility that you're understanding is mistaken. Your theology is that Jesus runs a forever and purposeless torture chamber. Oh well. One day you'll know better, although not necessarily in this lifetime.

What if I told you that heaven is being eternally united with God and hell is being eternally separated by God? What if I told you that it depends on our ability to accept being united with God? That some people’s heart has been so hardened that they ask God to remove his spirit because they couldn’t bear it?

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

What if I told you that heaven is being eternally united with God and hell is being eternally separated by God? What if I told you that it depends on our ability to accept being united with God? That some people’s heart has been so hardened that they ask God to remove his spirit because they couldn’t bear it?

If some people are forever separated from God then I would say that Jesus FAILS his mission into this world because he didn't "unite all things" to God.

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

 

[ding]

If some people are forever separated from God then I would say that Jesus FAILS his mission into this world because he didn't "unite all things" to God.

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

God wants ALL to be in his Kingdom. He sent Jesus to make it happen. Why do you believe that God and Jesus will fail?

 

[Hafar1014]

Yes, after Adam fell from grace, those people were dead. From Adam to Moses - all the way up to Christ - they were dead.

With Christ, a few of them found life. They were reconciled to their God, abandoning their idols and waywardness.

Most of them, however, refused to believe, and soon they lost everything. They were even forced to abandon Moses.

Jesus is an idol

 

[norwegen]

No, not in how you are describing 'transforming'. If (Mark) says so, give the Scripture and explain.

Jesus was/is the God/Man. 100% God and 100% Man. From the day He was born.

(Is. 7:14) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Beholld, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

(Matt. 1:22-23) "Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being intererpreted is, God with us."

Quantrill

Mark 16:12 says Jesus was assuming a different form. So the two men on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize him. Neither did anyone else when they first saw him.

 

[Meriweather]

If some people are forever separated from God then I would say that Jesus FAILS his mission into this world because he didn't "unite all things" to God.

God wants ALL to be in his Kingdom. He sent Jesus to make it happen. Why do you believe that God and Jesus will fail?

Free will is the weak link in the conclusions you are making. Lucifer and his minions chose not to follow God, and some humans elect to travel this path as well. Another point, perhaps in favor of your argument: 'Everlasting' is an adjective for the fire itself. The fire is everlasting, it never goes out. The verses do not specify that those thrown into this fire will be there for eternity--it is the fire that will remain for eternity. (Note, I am not saying this interpretation/opinion is correct--it's just a point that has interested me.)

Next, 'gold tested in fire': Impurities burn away, the gold remains. Since evil cannot exist in the presence of God, if evil is burned from a person, how much of that person remains? Could it be that what remains is no longer a person, let alone the unique individual who was purified by fire?

 

[Quantrill]

Mark 16:12 says Jesus was assuming a different form. So the two men on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize him. Neither did anyone else when they first saw him.

Jesus with His resurrected body could change his appearance at will. That doesn't mean His resurrected body was not the same body He had on earth. His appearance changed on the Mount of Transfiguration also. (Matt. 17:2) Just like in Nazereth all in the synogogue threw Jesus out and led Him to a cliff to throw Him over it. Yet it says He just walked away. Miraculously. (Luke 4:28-30)

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

No one but you thinks that’s the divide Jesus was talking about.

Jesus said he was sent by God (not himself) to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel and to them alone". He also said about his second appearance, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold (gentiles). I must bring them in also, and they will listen to my voice. So then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Here Jesus is clearly saying the exact opposite of what you profess to believe.

A time is coming, indeed it is already here, when there will be no division between intelligent Christians and Jews.

 

[ding]

God wants ALL to be in his Kingdom. He sent Jesus to make it happen. Why do you believe that God and Jesus will fail?

I already told you why. Not everyone can tolerate God’s love. It’s too much for the hardened hearts to bear.

But I believe your understanding of unite all things is wrong. It doesn’t mean everyone is united with God. Just the ones that can be. Order occurs when the ones that can do and the ones that can’t don’t.

 

[ding]

Jesus said he was sent by God (not himself) to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel and to them alone". He also said about his second appearance, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in also, and they will listen to my voice. So then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Here Jesus is clearly saying the exact opposite of what you profess to believe.

A time is coming, indeed it is already here, when there will be no division between Christians and Jews.

But there is a division now. That’s the division Jesus brought.

 

[ding]

If some people are forever separated from God then I would say that Jesus FAILS his mission into this world because he didn't "unite all things" to God.

Ephesians 1:9-10
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Maybe you are reading too much into unite all things.

Ephesians 1:9 speaks of this “to unite all things” as a mystery. The Greek scholar A.T. Robinson said the Greek word “MUSTERION,” translated “mystery” here, means “something that could not be known by men except by divine revelation, but that, though once hidden, has now been revealed in Christ and is to be proclaimed so that all who have ears may hear it” (Handbook to Ephesians, p. 19).

The specific mystery that Paul was speaking about is explained in the next verse (Ephesians 1:10). The truths of God are mysterious only to those who do not soften their hearts (Mark 8:17) by seeking God with their whole hearts. As Jeremiah 29:13 says, “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”

The truths of God are hidden for His children, not from them (Matthew 13:11). The Holy Spirit has been instructed to teach us all things (John 14:26) and has given us an unction so that we know all things (1 John 2:20). We only have to appropriate what is ours (1 Corinthians 2:16).