Zone1 Yes, we do have to "work" our way to Heaven

[hadit]

I don't see much diffrerence myself

In any case, all the faith or belief in the world will do one NO good if one does not CHANGE. Human nature will never get into Heaven

full stop

And who causes the change? "Ye must be born again" is something you can't do just by trying to do better.

 

[1miseryindex]

And who causes the change? "Ye must be born again" is something you can't do just by trying to do better.

who said otherwise?

sheez

However, some "christians" don't even try to do good works, really... think they are saved just because they yell Jesus's name 20 times at some pentacostal "church" or another on Sunday. ..

 

[Arlette]

Jesus said to become like children

You did it

 

[Lisa558]

well, you cannot deny that there is only ONE way to such a perfect place. You don't get there by being imperfect this way and that way....

and most humans aren't headed in that direction That's because they are stuck on the things of this earth, knowingly or otherwise but most people do know it (after about the age of 30)

and I could say other things. But what needs to be said is that Jesus is real and He is the Messiah the Jews waited for. They killed Him because they didn't want a king like Him

and other reasons, I'm sure.

In any case, Jesus is real

I disagree, as my religion teaches differently. And NO….Jesus does not meet the parameters of the Jewish messiah. I don’t feel like rehashing it all.

But also, when you said “What needs to be said is that Jesus is the Messiah the Jews waited for” did NOT need to be said. I think Jews are in a better position to know who they are waiting for than a Christian who is scolding them that they are wrong.

 

[1miseryindex]

I disagree, as my religion teaches differently. And NO….Jesus does not meet the parameters of the Jewish messiah. I don’t feel like rehashing it all.

But also, when you said “What needs to be said is that Jesus is the Messiah the Jews waited for” did NOT need to be said. I think Jews are in a better position to know who they are waiting for than a Christian who is scolding them that they are wrong.

You are wrong. "No one comes to the Father except through [Jesus]"

Prove that is not so....

You can't. You don't even know Jesus, apparently

 

[Lisa558]

You are wrong. "No one comes to the Father except through [Jesus]"

Prove that is not so....

You can't. You don't even know Jesus, apparently

You are wrong. Prove that Heaven is denied to Jews and bestowed only on Christians,

You’re just another holier-than-thou Christian who thinks his way is the only way, and people who follow other teachings are wrong.

 

[hadit]

who said otherwise?

sheez

However, some "christians" don't even try to do good works, really... think they are saved just because they yell Jesus's name 20 times at some pentacostal "church" or another on Sunday. ..

Okay, and I believe they are in for a rude awakening when they face Judgement. That, however, doesn't change the basic nature of Christianity, which is that Christ paid the penalty for ALL sin if we only accept it. There are apostate Jews, do they invalidate Judaism?

I will cite again how we expect someone to behave when they fall in love. If their behavior doesn't change at all, we have to ask, are they really in love or are they just parroting some words designed to make people think they are in love? Does doing nice things for someone and saying nice things about them make you in love with them, or do you do those things because you fall in love with them? So it is with Christianity. Doing good works doesn't make you a Christian, but you should naturally be doing good works as evidence that you are in fact a Christian.

IOW, the works themselves don't do anything to save you, they are just the evidence that you are saved.

 

[1miseryindex]

You are wrong. Prove that Heaven is denied to Jews and bestowed only on Christians,

You’re just another holier-than-thou Christian who thinks his way is the only way, and people who follow other teachings are wrong.

ok, whatever. Are you done throwing a temper tantrum yet?

 

[1miseryindex]

Okay, and I believe they are in for a rude awakening when they face Judgement. That, however, doesn't change the basic nature of Christianity, which is that Christ paid the penalty for ALL sin if we only accept it. There are apostate Jews, do they invalidate Judaism?

I will cite again how we expect someone to behave when they fall in love. If their behavior doesn't change at all, we have to ask, are they really in love or are they just parroting some words designed to make people think they are in love? Does doing nice things for someone and saying nice things about them make you in love with them, or do you do those things because you fall in love with them? So it is with Christianity. Doing good works doesn't make you a Christian, but you should naturally be doing good works as evidence that you are in fact a Christian.

IOW, the works themselves don't do anything to save you, they are just the evidence that you are saved.

where's this in the Bible?

You nonCatholics go by Bible alone so show me where it is

 

[hadit]

where's this in the Bible?

You nonCatholics go by Bible alone so show me where it is

Romans 3:

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[1miseryindex]

Romans 3:

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

That is referring to the Mosaic laws such as keeping the Sabbath... Seder and etc... such as was done in the old ways of the Jewish religion and etc... etc

The moral law is the moral law and it is written in stone. Ask Moses. You can't commit a lawless, immoral act like, say, abortion and then

say

NO problem! Jesus forgives! I am not under the law anymore!

PLEASE!

 

[hadit]

That is referring to the Mosaic laws such as keeping the Sabbath... Seder and etc... such as was done in the old ways of the Jewish religion and etc... etc

The moral law is the moral law and it is written in stone. Ask Moses. You can't commit a lawless, immoral act like, say, abortion and then

say

NO problem! Jesus forgives! I am not under the law anymore!

PLEASE!

You seem to not understand what it means to repent. It's certainly NOT saying in any way, "NO problem".

 

[1miseryindex]

You seem to not understand what it means to repent. It's certainly NOT saying in any way, "NO problem".

you seem to not understand how to respond to the actual point in the post in you're addressing.

nice dodge

not

 

[hadit]

you seem to not understand how to respond to the actual point in the post in you're addressing.

nice dodge

not

You did NOT write "NO problem! Jesus forgives! I am not under the law anymore"? Because that was the point I was addressing.

Of course, there's the moral law that God wrote with His finger on stone. Yeshua then proceeded to raise the bar when He was preaching. He went from "Do not murder" to "Do not hate", and from "Do not commit adultery" to "Don't look lustfully", IOW an impossible standard to meet. It's the new Covenant.

 

[1miseryindex]

You’re just another holier-than-thou Christian who thinks his way is the only way, and people who follow other teachings are wrong.

If someone belongs to a religion that teaches its religion is not really the truth or maybe it is one of many other truths people are free to believe or not believe

steer clear of that church so called

 

[1miseryindex]

Of course, there's the moral law that God wrote with His finger on stone. Yeshua then proceeded to raise the bar when He was preaching. He went from "Do not murder" to "Do not hate", and from "Do not commit adultery" to "Don't look lustfully", IOW an impossible standard to meet. It's the new Covenant.

well, I detected a falsehood, not surprisingly.

Jesus actually did tell us to hate

hate brother, sister, mother, father

If you do not, you are not worthy of Him

true story.. not sure where that is in the New T but it's there

 

[hadit]

well, I detected a falsehood, not surprisingly.

Jesus actually did tell us to hate

hate brother, sister, mother, father

If you do not, you are not worthy of Him

true story.. not sure where that is in the New T but it's there

He was talking about the cost of discipleship. If you do not hate even yourself, by comparison to how much you love Him, you can't be His disciple. When you look at what He said in context, it's clear that He's talking about counting the cost of discipleship before becoming one. He used the example of a man who was going to build a house, or tower. He didn't figure the cost before starting, ran out of money, had to quit and became a laughingstock when people saw the foundation. Being a disciple of Christ costs everything, and that's why He said we have to be ready to give EVERYTHING up to truly follow Him. That's why the prosperity gospel is so pernicious, it flies directly in the face of Christ's teachings.

 

[1miseryindex]

He was talking about the cost of discipleship. If you do not hate even yourself, by comparison to how much you love Him, you can't be His disciple. When you look at what He said in context, it's clear that He's talking about counting the cost of discipleship before becoming one. He used the example of a man who was going to build a house, or tower. He didn't figure the cost before starting, ran out of money, had to quit and became a laughingstock when people saw the foundation. Being a disciple of Christ costs everything, and that's why He said we have to be ready to give EVERYTHING up to truly follow Him. That's why the prosperity gospel is so pernicious, it flies directly in the face of Christ's teachings.

Thanks for this addition of hating self also.

For once, I can't disagree w/ something a non-Catholic says!