Zone1 the 2 fallacies in saying : All Scripture is inspired by God not sinful men

[Meriweather]

in some ways, the 4th century christian bible has done more for judaism than for christianity ... oddly and inexorably linked.

Yes. I've heard it said that the New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament--and the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament.

 

[alang1216]

It's in your face because you are trolling religious websites. I live on the same planet as you and I don't see anyone throwing it in my face.

No it is in my face since Christian fundamentalists want to determine my rights as they have always done in the past.

 

[alang1216]

The following individuals were not punished as a nation. And these are just a few I remember off the top of my head.

• Adam and Eve
• Cain
• Lot's wife
• Korah, Dathan, and Abiram
• Moses
• King David

I expect what changed was literature. While there are a number of Old Testament stories that focus on individual, plenty were focused on the nation as for a time Israel was a prominent force in that locale's history. The New Testament focuses more on individuals. It should be noted that in both, God is prominent.

I don't disagree with you but note that David sinned and 70,000 Israelites died.

 

[ding]

that's your issue, why you are a caustic christian and not who believes in jesus, the 1st century repudiation of judaism as they taught.

judaisms false heavenly personifications used to perpetuate their false religion.

Because Jesus IS.

 

[ding]

...David sinned and 70,000 Israelites died.

Is that really what you believe the cause and effect was? I don't.

 

[ding]

Hebrews were originally polytheists then became henotheists before finally becoming monotheists at about the time of the Babylonian exile. Your turn.

What's your point? Seems like a normal process to me.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if you start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

You have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. You shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, you are so far removed from these events that you have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. You read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on you.

 

[ding]

You lack attention.

My attention is fine. It's your lack of inner peace that is responsible for you seeking out conflict.

 

[ding]

No it is in my face since Christian fundamentalists want to determine my rights as they have always done in the past.

How so?

 

[BreezeWood]

Because Jesus IS.

no where found in the christian bible ... used to persecute and victimize the innocent - bing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

My attention is fine. It's your lack of inner peace that is responsible for you seeking out conflict.

You lack attention. So you beg for it here.

Your low IQ characterizations are part of that.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't take Genesis 1 or 2 literally

Jesus did. Why do you deny Jesus but say you're Christian

 

[Carl in Michigan]

No it is in my face since Christian fundamentalists want to determine my rights as they have always done in the past.

 

[Foxfyre]

First of all, you must be saying that God can't use men to accomplish what He wants them to accomplish. Puny man bests the Omnipotent
Secondly, you act as if Sola Scriptura and Private Interpretation are the key, But however you take it, we (me and you)only accept this as Scripture BECAUSE the faith of the Church community said it was

You are that silly immature type that St Augustine often refers to

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.”

As an amateur Bible scholar, the following is what I have concluded (for now) is truth:

1. The Bible is an amazing collection of manuscripts spanning that include history, law, prophecy, poetry, allegory, parable, wisdom literature, symbolism. The dedicated Bible scholar seeks to separate the passages into the proper categories.
Example: Did the story of Jonah actually happen? Or is it a teaching allegory?

2. Indeed God/Holy Spirit may have inspired the scriptures as we have them, but certainly it was flesh and blood human beings who first wrote down the words and perpetually recopied and interpreted them. And each one of those no doubt wrote with the language, experience, perspective, understanding that he had. To know his meaning we have to look at and understand the scripture through the eyes of those who wrote down the words. If we use our different language, experience, perspective, understanding to interpret them, we'll get it wrong much more than we get it right.
Example: "Am I my brother's keeper" is an admonition that we are responsible for others? Or a statement that we do not put other humans into the same category of the sheep and cattle that we 'keep'?

3. I am quite certain that God wanted the Bible to exist as all the efforts to destroy it over the millennia have failed and it remains today as the best selling book of all time. And Christianity remains as the world's largest religion. And I believe that despite all the possible error, contradiction, probable human dictates in the Bible due to human fallibility or the culture of other times, there is also a great deal of truth and real instruction.

4. I believe God/Holy Spirit can and does use Biblical passages (as well as other ways) to speak to us then and now.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus did. Why do you deny Jesus but say you're Christian

I'm pretty sure Jesus never said he took it literally. But if that is your belief I won't fault or judge you for it. Or even mark it 'disagree'.

I do believe in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made. Without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it. (Memorized from John 1.)

And I also believe God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (Memorized from John 3:16)

And I have a personal relationship with Jesus the Christ.

That is why I am a Christian.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus did. Why do you deny Jesus but say you're Christian

no they didn't, just like everything else reasoned into being an explanation that fit their religion. the entire document is a narrative.

 

[ding]

You lack attention. So you beg for it here.

Your low IQ characterizations are part of that.

I'm not the one seeking conflict. That's you.

 

[ding]

no where found in the christian bible

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Did the story of Jonah actually happen? Or is it a teaching allegory?

Jesus said it did, but you persist in not accepting Him at His word. Sad.

 

[surada]

Jesus said it did, but you persist in not accepting Him at His word. Sad.

Jesus references the story of Jonah. He doesn't claim it's real.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So scripture is inspired by God using sinful man. It is your 3rd fallacy to split that apart

There are so many levels in scripture that it had to be put together by God.
Here is one example. Read the names of the Genealogy of Christ. Then read it again the way God designed it:
In Genesis 5 there appears to be a seemingly unimportant genealogy of Adam. We realize this is significant as it relates to the line of Jesus (see Luke 3), but why take the time to mention all the details of each individual?


What is profound is when you begin to look at the meaning of each of the names.
Adam: man
Seth: appointed
Enosh: mortal, frail, or miserable
Kenan (Cainan): sorrow, dirge, elegy
Mahalalel: the Blessed God
Jared: “shall come down”
Enoch: commencement or teaching
Methuselah: his death shall bring
Lamech: despairing
Noah: comfort, rest

What may appear as an insignificant list of names becomes an incredible picture of the Gospel of Christ.

• Man (is)
• appointed
• mortal
• sorrow; (but)
• the Blessed God
• shall come down
• teaching (that)
• His death shall bring
• the despairing
• comfort, rest