What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Would you be better off under Socialism, if so how?

pknopp

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
35,029
Reaction score
10,587
Points
1,360
This gets so old.......most everyone loves Socialism when it benefits them.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

VIP Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
149
Points
63
Socialism is earthly. It does not think about what is to come, being better than what is. Socialism uses money. Socialism does not emphasize gifting. God gave to us all that is, as a gift. You cannot please God when you don't beleive that God is. Others are not pleased, either. People will be lovers of themselves in the last days. Lets turn that around.
 
Last edited:

meaner gene

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
13,229
Reaction score
7,573
Points
930
This gets so old.......most everyone loves Socialism when it benefits them.
It's the same with capitalism. Most everyone loves capitalism when it benefits them.
 

Lakhota

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
96,633
Reaction score
15,138
Points
2,220
Location
Native America

pknopp

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
35,029
Reaction score
10,587
Points
1,360
It's the same with capitalism. Most everyone loves capitalism when it benefits them.

Nobody argues that there aren't capitalistic elements to our society. The refusal to admit is the Socialism.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

VIP Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
149
Points
63
A good example of people free from government rules and regulations, who operate under a fixed set of social norms, and manage themselves you only have to look at the Taliban in Afghanistan. They operate at the local level, using the Koran, and not government rules.
The Taliban is looking at Satan's fear giving laws. We need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, not making others to tremble. Jesus did not make people to be afraid. Demons are afraid of the gentle, kind, Lord of Glory.
 
OP
CrusaderFrank

CrusaderFrank

Diamond Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
123,735
Reaction score
39,892
Points
2,290
For the purposes of this thread, what is the specific working definition of "socialism" here?

I have to ask, because it appears many on the Right don't know what communism is.

0 for 3
 

WTH_Progs?

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
8,333
Reaction score
6,383
Points
1,940

dudmuck

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
9,141
Reaction score
3,466
Points
345
Location
Camarillo, CA
Depending on what definition of "socialism" you prefer, redistribution of wealth and income through a progressive tax system and ownership of key public sector utilities like gas, electricity, water, and railways allows government to function as a fourth factor of production whose purpose is not profit driven but rather exists to lower the cost of living and doing business.
public sector utility is just state capitalism, which retains the same employer-employee relationship from the private sector.

The appropriate path to socialism is shown here, which only involves the government in giving workers the opportunity to own the place they work at, perhaps with a loan if needed.
 

pknopp

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
35,029
Reaction score
10,587
Points
1,360
public sector utility is just state capitalism, which retains the same employer-employee relationship from the private sector.

The appropriate path to socialism is shown here, which only involves the government in giving workers the opportunity to own the place they work at, perhaps with a loan if needed.
public sector utility is just state capitalism, which retains the same employer-employee relationship from the private sector.

The appropriate path to socialism is shown here, which only involves the government in giving workers the opportunity to own the place they work at, perhaps with a loan if needed.

This is said all the time but tell me, where do we find taxpayers bailing out business in Capitalism?
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
39,840
Reaction score
3,645
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
Frankie, Im tired of contributing. I'm ready to leech a few bucks back, suck on that govt tit before it dries up.
Perhaps you should incorporate?
1*EUkoXYYd1t6zwH04t7tRUg.jpeg

"The term corporate welfare is widely used to describe the bestowal of favorable treatment to big business (particular corporations) by the government.

"One of the most commonly raised forms of criticism are statements that the capitalist political economy toward large corporations allows them to 'privatize profits and socialize losses.'[2]"

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor - Wikipedia
 

meaner gene

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
13,229
Reaction score
7,573
Points
930
Nobody argues that there aren't capitalistic elements to our society. The refusal to admit is the Socialism.
Actually capitalism without socialism, is like a day without sunshine.

In short, pure capitalism is like drinking 180 proof white lightning. You have to mix it with something like socialism, to make it easy to swallow.
 

task0778

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
8,132
Reaction score
6,432
Points
2,065
Location
Texas hill country
I might as well take a stab at this discussion, starting what I think socialism is. IMHO, socialism is an economic and political system wherein the gov't owns or controls all major industries (manufacturing, services, and energy), banks and insurance companies, agribusiness, transportation, the media, and medical facilities. It is characterized by centralized planning, and your choices, rights, and freedoms are extremely limited. You are in effect subservient to the state, like it or not; elections are held but the winner is pre-determined.

People have to understand, if you want the gov't in control then you are in effect surrendering most of if not all of your rights, and freedoms, including the right to dissent.
Obedience is mandatory. And in a centrally planned and controlled economy you are not going to see the options and choices that capitalism provides. There is no place on earth where that is not true or ever was. And don't try to point to Sweden, that country is decidedly NOT a socialistic state; in fact, on many studies they are more free market than we are.

So, would anyone be better off under socialism? I don't see how, unless you are connected to the ruling class. Don't be thinking that the CEOs under socialism are the same as everybody else. You're still going to be a peon but they won't, and you won't be told how bad you have it compared to the elites. They'll get preferential treatment everywhere, but you won't. They'll still live high on the hog, but you won't. It will not be the panacea of liberty, equality, and fraternity that you dreamed it would be.
 
Last edited:

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
39,840
Reaction score
3,645
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
The appropriate path to socialism is shown here, which only involves the government in giving workers the opportunity to own the place they work at, perhaps with a loan if needed.
That could bring democracy to the institution where most adults spend a majority of their waking hours.

Workplace democracy - Wikipedia

"From as early as the 1920s, scholars have been exploring the idea of increasing employee participation and involvement.

"They sought to learn whether including employees in organizational decision-making would lead to increased effectiveness and productivity within the organization. According to Lewin, individuals who are involved in decision-making also have increased openness to change.[3]

"Different participative techniques can have either a stronger impact on morale than productivity, while others have the reverse effect. Success of the employee-owned and operated Mondragon suggests economic benefits from workplace democracy."
 

Meister

Diamond Member
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
46,250
Reaction score
20,396
Points
2,290
Location
Conservative part of the Northwest
Health and Sickness

1. subsidized doctor care mainly in county clinics

2. free public hospital treatment

3. subsidized dental care; free for children

4. subsidized prescription drugs; life-saving drugs free

5. free abortions and sterilizations

6. free maternity clinics for prenatal care

7. cash benefits to compensate for loss of most wages due to sickness; a separate benefit is available for workers injured on the job

Family Support

8. tax-free monthly payment to parents for each child; single parents receive an additional payment for each child

9. parents have a right to take a total of 12 months paid leave from work at near full wages to care for each child up to first year in school

10. subsidized child care at home or in a government day-care center

11. one year at a subsidized nursery school

12. unemployment insurance pays about 80 percent of previous income

Pensions

13. most retired persons receive three different kinds of old-age pensions paid for by taxes and employer contributions

14. full or partial disability pensions; disabled child pension goes to parents until age 16 and then directly to child

15. special payment to handicapped persons who are working or in school

16. surviving spouse and orphan pensions

You said "FREE", I'm still laughing at you, Otis. Which Doctors work for "free"?
 

MarathonMike

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
26,913
Reaction score
26,633
Points
2,445
Location
The Southwestern Desert
Frankie, Im tired of contributing. I'm ready to leech a few bucks back, suck on that govt tit before it dries up.
Bingo! After paying taxes for 40 years only to see it pissed away or grow government, I'm glad I'm getting of it some back before it all goes for supporting illegal aliens or paying off the national debt.
 

meaner gene

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
13,229
Reaction score
7,573
Points
930
I might as well take a stab at this discussion, starting what I think socialism is. IMHO, socialism is an economic and political system wherein the gov't owns or controls all major industries (manufacturing, services, and energy), banks and insurance companies, agribusiness, transportation, the media, and medical facilities. It is characterized by centralized planning, and your choices, rights, and freedoms are extremely limited.
Socialism doesn't require central planning. It can merely be that the government controls (as in regulates) manufacturing, services, and energy.

Maybe you didn't notice, but the government has thousands of regulations over how a business operates. That's a far cry from pure capitalism.
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
39,840
Reaction score
3,645
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
IMHO, socialism is an economic and political system wherein the gov't owns or controls all major industries (manufacturing, services, and energy), banks and insurance companies, agribusiness, transportation, the media, and medical facilities. It is
That's one of many types of socialism.
All versions require the social ownership of the means of production
.

Types of socialism - Wikipedia

"Types of socialism include a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and organizational self-management of enterprises[8][9] as well as the political theories and movements associated with socialism.[10]

"Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity[11] in which surplus value goes to the working class and hence society as a whole."
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$132.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top