Work Until You’re Dead?

[boedicca]

Some basic personal finance skills would go a long way for many of the people who are 60 years old and realize they have no savings.

We're dealing with stagnant wages, increased housing costs, increased health care costs, skyrocketing college tuition costs, high unemployment rates, and whole host of other issues. It's more complicated than tightening one's belt.

No it's not.

Buy smaller houses, buy less crap, go to college part time while you are working and take 6 or 8 years to get a degree

I'm sick and tired of people whining that they have no money while they are driving a new car or worse a leased car, sipping on a 5 dollar coffee, have HBO Showtime, Cinemax and all the pay sports channels, eat out 5 or 6 times a week pay 200 a month for a stupid cell phone etc etc etc.

It's very liberating to live below one's means and to pay off debt and to save. Although these days, savings are not what they used to be due to ZIRP...so one is forced into the stock market if one wishes to preserve some purchasing power.

 

[boedicca]

Only the poor and lower end of the middle class retires. The very weathy work until they drop on the job. The upper middle class retires into second careers.

The idea of retirement into idleness was always silly.

Indeed. Work (paid or not) keeps one healthy. The brain needs exercise as well as the body.

 

[jasonnfree]

We're dealing with stagnant wages, increased housing costs, increased health care costs, skyrocketing college tuition costs, high unemployment rates, and whole host of other issues. It's more complicated than tightening one's belt.

Not a whole lot has changed in the last 100 years, the only difference is that this time it is in your lifetime.

I disagree. The last 100 years has resulted in a phenomenal destruction of the value of the dollar...which had been fairly stable in the prior 100. Thanks to the Fed and our government's insatiable and irresponsible desire to spend us into oblivion, savers who planned for their future have been screwed over.

Thanks Progressives!

In my opinion you should thank progressives. The working class is much better off than the working class of 1914. God bless the federal reserve, john maynard keynes, and progressives like FDR. This could be argued forever I know but my opinion anyway.

 

[Mr Natural]

How to retire in style:

1. Always save at least 10% of your take home.

2. Live below your means.

3. Stop buying a lot of crap you really don't need.

4. Max out your IRAs and 401Ks.

5. And if you have to work for someone else, DO NOT work for a family owned business. You'll never be part of the family and just when you think you're in line for the big job, the idiot son-in-law will get it. Find yourself a big corporation (preferably European owned) and stay as long as they'll have you.

 

[alan1]

We're dealing with stagnant wages, increased housing costs, increased health care costs, skyrocketing college tuition costs, high unemployment rates, and whole host of other issues. It's more complicated than tightening one's belt.

Not a whole lot has changed in the last 100 years, the only difference is that this time it is in your lifetime.

 

[oldfart]

Only the poor and lower end of the middle class retires. The very weathy work until they drop on the job. The upper middle class retires into second careers.

The idea of retirement into idleness was always silly.

I actually agree with you on this one. The smart thing to do is to slowly cut back and enjoy life. Unfortunately most jobs do not allow for that (which is one good reason to be self-employed). People should give more thought to their second, third, and fourth careers, as the first one is unlikely to last a lifetime anyway.

So far I have been a fast-food worker, research economist, college professor, professional witness, securities salesman (twice), insurance salesman, forensic accountant, taxpayer representative, franchise executive, business advisor, continuing education seminar speaker (three fields), construction accountant, shopping center developer, rental real estate manager, commercial real estate investor, published historian, restuaranteur, and have an investment/management interest in a gun store and a site development/landscaping business.

I haven't jumped around a lot, my main income until recently has been the tax business for 30+ years and I still am active in it. Now most of my business interests are in partnership with my son and at least one operating partner. We supply the money, business plan, and strategic management as well as support services. I'm down to 30 hours a week and will probably stay about there until I'm 75 or so; unless of course another teaching gig comes along, or we find a new opportunity that we just can't pass up, or I get around to actually writing one of the books I have notes for, or........

 

[SteadyMercury]

We're dealing with stagnant wages, increased housing costs, increased health care costs, skyrocketing college tuition costs, high unemployment rates, and whole host of other issues. It's more complicated than tightening one's belt.

I don't think it is, we have so much slack in terms of unneeded spending I have a hard time generating sympathy for anyone claiming they can't get by with a decent wage. What used to be a luxury is now the norm, yet people who own that former luxury are considered suffering or can't get by.

If someone who pays to get hundreds of channels on their TV and owns a smart phone says they are worse off, two things previous generation couldn't have dreamed of, I question their perspective.

 

[expat_panama]

REAL wages haven't risen in the last 40 yrs...

...We're dealing with stagnant wages....

That kind of talk really shouldn't be tossed around without a good anchor in fact; here're the hard numbers we can work from:

Real Median Household Income in the United States
Economic Research Division
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

1-Jan-96 … $50,978 ……… 1-Jan-05 … $54,486
1-Jan-97 … $51,720 ……… 1-Jan-06 … $54,892
1-Jan-98 … $52,784 ……… 1-Jan-07 … $55,627
1-Jan-99 … $54,702 ……… 1-Jan-08 … $53,644
1-Jan-00 … $56,080 ……… 1-Jan-09 … $53,285
1-Jan-01 … $55,987 ……… 1-Jan-10 … $51,893
1-Jan-02 … $54,127 ……… 1-Jan-11 … $51,100
1-Jan-03 … $54,079 ……… 1-Jan-12 … $51,017
1-Jan-04 … $53,891

Most household incomes adjusted for inflation are still about what they were during the Clinton economic miracle when everyone was happy. Our problem is that while we're still good, we've been losing ground since '07. Looks like we'd had years of income growth, falling income beginning with the 110th congress, and worsening declines since '09.

 

[Vox]

REAL wages haven't risen in the last 40 yrs. THATS changed.

absolute BULLSHIT

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Boomers were the last generation virtually guaranteed a better life than our parents.

That's because they went and ruined everything they got their hands on.

 

[Moonglow]

Only the poor and lower end of the middle class retires. The very weathy work until they drop on the job. The upper middle class retires into second careers.

The idea of retirement into idleness was always silly.

Being idle will kill you faster than working till you die.

 

[Moonglow]

The Boomers were the last generation virtually guaranteed a better life than our parents.

That's because they went and ruined everything they got their hands on.

Every time I went to bed with my wife I destroyed that.

 

[percysunshine]

Only the poor and lower end of the middle class retires. The very weathy work until they drop on the job. The upper middle class retires into second careers.

The idea of retirement into idleness was always silly.

Being idle will kill you faster than working till you die.

That is why Al Gore invented the internet.

 

[MikeK]

How to retire in style:

1. Always save at least 10% of your take home.

2. Live below your means.

3. Stop buying a lot of crap you really don't need.

4. Max out your IRAs and 401Ks.

5. And if you have to work for someone else, DO NOT work for a family owned business. You'll never be part of the family and just when you think you're in line for the big job, the idiot son-in-law will get it. Find yourself a big corporation (preferably European owned) and stay as long as they'll have you.

My parents survived the Great Depression, during which they suffered and nearly became homeless. Their advice to me was to get an education, take a good civil service job (mainly for the pension), and invest in nothing but U.S. Savings Bonds. I followed that advice and have no regrets.

The economic problems Americans face today are not as serious as the problems they faced in the thirties. What saved us then was FDR and the New Deal -- which in simple terms was the imposition of certain important socialist policies which brought the laissez-faire capitalism which was ruining the Nation under control. Those policies included a confiscatory 91% tax rate on the super-rich, a strong union movement, and a host of regulations that broke the financial stranglehold they had managed to effect via political bribery.

Briefly stated, what is needed now is another New Deal. But the contemporary population is so mutually malicious, ruinously divided, and/or politically ignorant, it isn't even likely FDR could be elected now if he returned from the grave.

 

[MikeK]

The Boomers were the last generation virtually guaranteed a better life than our parents.

That's because they went and ruined everything they got their hands on.

I think it would be more accurate to say the Republican segment of the Boomers blindly allowed it to be ruined right before their politically ignorant eyes. Because the problems we are seeing today began with the "Reagan Revolution" and vastly included the appointment of President George W. Bush -- the worst sonofabitch who ever infected the Oval Office and who set about to loot the Treasury and strangle the Nation's economy.

All of the Boomers are not responsible for any of that! It was and is the goddam right-wingers who did it and will continue to do it.

 

[Kimura]

Buy smaller houses, buy less crap, go to college part time while you are working and take 6 or 8 years to get a degree

The average level of student debt for the class of 2013 is $35,200. College tuition rates are outpacing inflation. For example, tution/fees for community colleges have increased 25% more than inflation over the last five years. How does a kid making $7-$10/HR pay for this? Then they graduate, and due to idiotic macro policies, many of them can't find decent paying jobs in their field.

I'm sick and tired of people whining that they have no money while they are driving a new car or worse a leased car, sipping on a 5 dollar coffee, have HBO Showtime, Cinemax and all the pay sports channels, eat out 5 or 6 times a week pay 200 a month for a stupid cell phone etc etc etc.

Yeah, that ship has sailed. Americans have been consuming significantly less. We have all this excess capacity if you haven't noticed.

 

[Kimura]

We're dealing with stagnant wages, increased housing costs, increased health care costs, skyrocketing college tuition costs, high unemployment rates, and whole host of other issues. It's more complicated than tightening one's belt.

Not a whole lot has changed in the last 100 years, the only difference is that this time it is in your lifetime.

I disagree. The last 100 years has resulted in a phenomenal destruction of the value of the dollar...which had been fairly stable in the prior 100. Thanks to the Fed and our government's insatiable and irresponsible desire to spend us into oblivion, savers who planned for their future have been screwed over.

Thanks Progressives!

Well...that's just completely inaccurate.

Prior to the FED, and thanks to the gold standard, we had banking panics/depressions every decade like clockwork.

Look at the chart. We have a real good or service that cost one dollar in 2006 would be priced at roughly five cents in 1913. Why should we care? The average earned income has increased over 6500% since that time period. In 1913, more or less, the average earned income was roughly $750 per year. By 2006, the average earned income was $50,000 per year. In the United States, even with our horrible wage stagnation, average earned incomes have outpaced price inflation by 230%.

Click Here:Actual Data

Many conservatives make the ignorant argument that real value of a dollar would be worth only five cents today. That would make sense if we lived in a world where everyone held cash savings. If we look at the actual data, as opposed to talking points, from say 1983-2007, we see three levels. The bottom forty percent of households had net financial wealth of -$10,500. We have the third quintile who have a measly net financial wealth of $26,500. Lastly, we have the fourth quintile who have the most net financial wealth in the country.

These right wing talking points are completely irrelevant for the bottom forty percent with zero savings. They live paycheck to paycheck, day to day. A little inflation (perfectly normal in a growing economy) helps to reduce the burden of their debts. Real income gains are what's most import for these people, and to improve their situation even more, we need to repeal the financial sector's liberalization. The top three quintiles, with their non-home investments, according to the data, beat inflation by 122%, 83% and 66% over the past twenty five years. The third quintile, who actually had no real income gains over the same time period, saw their financial investments increase by 66%.

 

[Mr Natural]

The Boomers were the last generation virtually guaranteed a better life than our parents.

That's because they went and ruined everything they got their hands on.

Too bad you missed out.

Maybe next time around you'll hit it right.

 

[Dot Com]

^ that

can't determine if bodicca is clueless or willfully ignorant/drank the kool aid/took the brown acid

I lived through "boom & bust" economies of laissez faire (deregulated) capitalism & letting the *cough* "job creators" AKA- rich rw campaign donors dictate from on high & that zaniness got us to where we are now.

 

[expat_panama]

...The last 100 years has resulted in a phenomenal destruction of the value of the dollar...which had been fairly stable in the prior 100...

What fed-bashers mean when they say 'stable dollar' usually refers to the change in value one century to the next --as if anyone cared about working one day and then buying groceries 100 years later. Folks in the business community care about inflation one year to the next so they can say, plan on whether to plant a new crop or open a new product line. So, in real life grown-up business terms, the dollar was extremely unstable with gold certificates and far more stable after 1933 when they were recalled and replaced with FRN's.

The record speaks for itself.