Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.

[Missourian]

Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.
A cease fire would stop the killing of many Russians. It would stop the monetary cost of war.
If you are committed to peace, stop the fighting and work out an agreement.

I agree that I would love to see a ceasefire agreement.

But to answer your question, the army that is successfully on the offensive never wants a ceasefire.

A ceasefire allows the defenders a respite, a time to reorganize, a time to resupply and fortify their positions.

Russia just achieved a breakthrough and is threatening a massive envelopment of Ukrainian forces in the center of the front.

A ceasefire is only an advantage for Ukraine, so it would not be surprising if Russia chose to pursue a peace agreement without a ceasefire. From the Russia perspective, better to lose some Russians soldiers by continuing the fighting than to gamble on a peace deal that may not materialize and have more losses against a newly rested, organized, resupplied and fortified Ukrainian force.

 

[Missourian]

We emboldened Ukraine with our support

He thought that he was gonna get to join NATO

We knew better, but we hoped to weaken Russia

Oops

Putin will get what he wants

Agree 100%

But I believe we would have brought Ukraine into NATO had Russia not used military force.

 

[Missourian]

tRump has no cards to play with Putin

Putin said at the beginning of this fiasco, NATO agreed “not one inch closet to Russia “

obomba helped orchestrate a coup in 14

Thinking that would pressure Putin

Putin took Crimea without combat

biden kept dangling joining NATO to Zelenskyy

Knowing full well that would NEVER happen

Putin is in control

The best tRump can do is hope that his base thinks that he has something to do with the end result

Are you a lefty?

Because THIS is an excellent analysis.

I only take issue with the last sentence.

I believe the leverage President Trump has is twofold.

He has a minor advantage economically...but it is only tangential to the actual leverage.

IMO the real leverage is to bring Russia back into the fold.

I believe what Trump is dangling is cooperation between Russia and the US.

 

[Missourian]

Those are Russia's talking points. The rest of the world is saying cease fire and negotiate peace.
THAT STOPS THE KILLING.
You and Trump are doing Russia's bidding. Disgusting. Treasonous. Idiotic.

They want to keep fighting until they have all of Ukraine. Putin does not care how many Russians die.

This is not a well thought out rebuttal and is beneath you.

What "the rest of the world wants" is irrelevant. The "rest of the world" has it's own agenda...and it has nothing to do with "stopping the killing".

If the agenda was stopping the killing... why not lobby Ukraine to surrender?

Wouldn't that stop the killing?

What you and the rest of the world including Russia desires is to stop the killing AFTER your objective is achieved.

On the second point, I believe time will prove you wrong. What Putin wants is Eastern Ukraine as a buffer against NATO. He also needs the warm water port at Sevastopol and a fresh water supply for Crimea.

 

[leftwinger]

ZEL could have stopped all this years ago.

As long as I see Ukraine in the Olympics and WC soccer TMTS, things can't be too bad? As we (Obiden) paid pensions for them? to send Olympic squads? What next? We send them soldiers? I am out of Forks to give.

 

[BackAgain]

Putin is in no way serious about seeking peace. He places absolutely no value on human lives. He don’t start this war for Amy reason other than to take any historical part of Russia (Soviet Union) back.

He is a scumbag evil monster. And, to be clear, this doesn’t mean that Ukraine is blameless. But their faults simply don’t amount to any legitimate reason for Putin’s outrageous and savage military.

I still root for some honorable Russian General to oust Putin. I also hope that Putin has a crippling stroke.

 

[Correll]

Putin is in no way serious about seeking peace. He places absolutely no value on human lives. He don’t start this war for Amy reason other than to take any historical part of Russia (Soviet Union) back.

He is a scumbag evil monster. And, to be clear, this doesn’t mean that Ukraine is blameless. But their faults simply don’t amount to any legitimate reason for Putin’s outrageous and savage military.

I still root for some honorable Russian General to oust Putin. I also hope that Putin has a crippling stroke.

A natrural death or retirement of Putin would be a rapid change and a good opening.

 

[JWBooth]

Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.
A cease fire would stop the killing of many Russians. It would stop the monetary cost of war.
If you are committed to peace, stop the fighting and work out an agreement.

Just before the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of the eleventh day the fiercest artillery fire of the war to end all wars took place.
When peace is at hand is when the need to grab territory is greatest.

 

[AZrailwhale]

And Russia would be at war with the USA and NATO

No more than it is today since Biden finally relaxed the restriction.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Agree 100%

But I believe we would have brought Ukraine into NATO had Russia not used military force.

Any country has the right to join a DEFENSIVE alliance. Russia doesn't get a veto just like the USA didn't get a veto when the Castro went over to the Russians. All the USA did was enact economic sanctions and prevent Russai from emplacing nuclear tipped medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba. We didn't interfere with the SAMs Russia emplaced, or the various Soviet ships and submarines the visited or were based there for short periods.

 

[ElmerMudd]

This is not a well thought out rebuttal and is beneath you.

What "the rest of the world wants" is irrelevant. The "rest of the world" has it's own agenda...and it has nothing to do with "stopping the killing".

If the agenda was stopping the killing... why not lobby Ukraine to surrender?

Wouldn't that stop the killing?

What you and the rest of the world including Russia desires is to stop the killing AFTER your objective is achieved.

On the second point, I believe time will prove you wrong. What Putin wants is Eastern Ukraine as a buffer against NATO. He also needs the warm water port at Sevastopol and a fresh water supply for Crimea.

Surrender is an option to stop the killing. If somebody invades your country would you surrender?
It gives the green light to Russia and any large country to invade other countries to take land.

It does matter wht the rest of the world thinks. The rest of the world places sanctions and aid to Ukraine. The US does not go this alone.

In the end, the only thing to stop Putin is power. Ramp up the sanctions, the world has to decide how much aid they will give.
If either or both sides want peace, a cease fire makes sense. Putin wants Ukraine over peace.

Look what he has done since the Alaska summit. He has ramped up their attacks. Even attacking a US owned factory. Putin is using Trump.

 

[ElmerMudd]

But, that's what MAGA wants, not what the left wants, or Zelenski wants, or the europeans want, or Putin wants.


Why are you definine the issue by what MAGA wants?


Everyone else wants to see the fighting and dying continue. So, I ask again,


what does it change? Why are you asking this question?


What do you want?

If that is your reality, we have nothing to talk about.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Rhetorical question, I presume.

Not really. I would like an answer. I am easily confused.

 

[JWBooth]

Surrender is an option to stop the killing. If somebody invades your country would you surrender?

Happens all the time when defenders are overwhelmed

 

[ElmerMudd]

Happens all the time when defenders are overwhelmed

Can you provide an example?

 

[Missourian]

Any country has the right to join a DEFENSIVE alliance. Russia doesn't get a veto just like the USA didn't get a veto when the Castro went over to the Russians. All the USA did was enact economic sanctions and prevent Russai from emplacing nuclear tipped medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba. We didn't interfere with the SAMs Russia emplaced, or the various Soviet ships and submarines the visited or were based there for short periods.

We tried though.

We blockaded their entire country and launched an operation on their soil to overthrow their government AND assassinate Castro (more than once).

We also operate a military base in Cuba against the expressed will of a sovereign nation.

So, that's not exactly an overwhelming argument against the actions of Russia.

In fact, the argument can be strongly made that WE instigated the overthrow of the duly elected government of Ukraine that directly led to the current open hostilities.

Europe wants natural gas, but they don't want to fund Russia.

IMO, we've engaged in many dirty tricks to that end, including the war in Iraq, interventions in Syria, and Iran. And Lybia to a lesser extent.

We are not the "good guys" in the sense that we do very, very bad things in the pursuit of "noble goals".

We, the people, may believe the cold war is over... but the western powers are still fighting it.

 

[ElmerMudd]

We tried though.

We blockaded their entire country and launched an operation on their soil to overthrow their government AND assassinate Castro (more than once).

We also operate a military base in Cuba against the expressed will of a sovereign nation.

So, that's not exactly an overwhelming argument against the actions of Russia.

In fact, the argument can be strongly made that WE instigated the overthrow of the duly elected government of Ukraine that directly led to the current open hostilities.

Europe wants natural gas, but they don't want to fund Russia.

IMO, we've engaged in many dirty tricks to that end, including the war in Iraq, interventions in Syria, and Iran. And Lybia to a lesser extent.

We are not the "good guys" in the sense that we do very, very bad things in the pursuit of "noble goals".

We, the people, may believe the cold war is over... but the western powers are still fighting it.

The cold war was restarted by Putin. He wants the Soviet Union back. He wants more power for Russia and himself. Strength will stop him, not kissing his ass.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Because that would just give Ukraine time to rearm

That excuse worked for Israel

You misspelled "Hamas".

 

[JWBooth]

Can you provide an example?

Keitel at Berlin
Napoleon aboard the HMS Bellerophon
Sultan of Grenada to Isabella and Ferdinand
Bailan to Saladin at Jerusalem

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The Russians are losing a million soldiers -- a day!

Putin probably remembers when Ukrai(CIA)ne used the last "peace talks" to strike at Russia strategic bomber fleet, again trying to provoke WWIII

You are really working hard to prove you are ignorant and should be put on "ignore". Why would you post that stupid shit, dumbass?