Zone1 Why was Jesus crucified?

[Votto]

what "jewish leaders" rejected Jesus during his lifetime?

What do we know historically of Jesus? We have the Bible and secular writings such as Josephus who wrote about the death of Jesus and the stoning of his brother James. And according to Josephus, the Jews rejected Christ and his followers.

I suppose the Romans stoned James as well? LOL. Stoning was a Jewish form of execution, not Roman.

So now we see both evidence other than the Bible of the Roman form of execution alongside the Jewish form of execution, both directed at Christians as the Bible claims.

Jesus once said, "“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;”

Is this not correct according to the writings of the Jews in their own religious Torah?

Prophets are sent by God when the people are on the wrong path, and when they are told they are on the wrong path, they don't much like being told they are wrong about anything, so they take out their anger on the prophets.

Jesus was but one of many.

But this is the human condition, not just a Jewish one. In addition, Jesus said that he laid down his life and that no man takes it from him, making the nonsense about hatred towards the Jews nonsensical. regarding them taking his life from him.

 

[rosends]

You stated that the Romans killed Jesus. I assume that is how Jews are perceiving it or no?

You asked why something happened. I gave you a title by a German Christian who explains it, and somehow you put it on Jews? Weird.

I dunno, you tell me.

I haven't met the collective "Jews" you speak of. The ones I know don't really think about Christian stories at all.

What I do know is that Jesus never held a political seat nor guided an army or armed rebellion of any kind.

Maybe you should read the book and check his sources. It sells for $2. Maybe what you know isn't everything that there is to know.

 

[Votto]

You asked why something happened. I gave you a title by a German Christian who explains it, and somehow you put it on Jews? Weird.

I haven't met the collective "Jews" you speak of. The ones I know don't really think about Christian stories at all.

Maybe you should read the book and check his sources. It sells for $2. Maybe what you know isn't everything that there is to know.

So you have not read the book you cited?

 

[rosends]

So you have not read the book you cited?

Sure I have. He makes his case based on historical evidence. You should read it.

 

[Votto]

Sure I have. He makes his case based on historical evidence. You should read it.

You are not telling us much about the book at all.

Try again.

 

[rosends]

You are not telling us much about the book at all.

Try again.

I am telling you that the book exists and has the information you are looking for, with citations. It isn't my job to write a book report for you so you can avoid reading it. If you are curious, here is a resource. If you want to avoid learning, keep refusing the resource.

 

[irosie91]

What do we know historically of Jesus? We have the Bible and secular writings such as Josephus who wrote about the death of Jesus and the stoning of his brother James. And according to Josephus, the Jews rejected Christ and his followers.

I suppose the Romans stoned James as well? LOL. Stoning was a Jewish form of execution, not Roman.

So now we see both evidence other than the Bible of the Roman form of execution alongside the Jewish form of execution, both directed at Christians as the Bible claims.

Jesus once said, "“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;”

Is this not correct according to the writings of the Jews in their own religious Torah?

Prophets are sent by God when the people are on the wrong path, and when they are told they are on the wrong path, they don't much like being told they are wrong about anything, so they take out their anger on the prophets.

Jesus was but one of many.

But this is the human condition, not just a Jewish one. In addition, Jesus said that he laid down his life and that no man takes it from him, making the nonsense about hatred towards the Jews nonsensical. regarding them taking his life from him.

you should reread your sources and check them out.-------In fact Josephus did not mention
either Jesus or Stephen. There is a one liner in the copy of the "JEWISH WARS" written
by Josephus held by the VATICAN which makes a vague allusion to Jesus that scholars
agree is a fraudulent insertion. Jesus left no writings nor are there any extant writings
referable to him in his lifetime. Your quotation "that the blood of all the prophets,
which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation"---
is either a manifestation of a very high fever you experienced or mushrooms. Nor
is there any evidence that Jesus claimed "he laid down his life........" My expert advice is---
that which at one time was called a WASSERMAN TEST

 

[BackAgain]

Roman Governor Pontius Pilate ordered his crucifixion. I don't he was Jewish.

The nails were Roman as were the Centurions doing the nailing.

 

[Votto]

you should reread your sources and check them out.-------In fact Josephus did not mention
either Jesus or Stephen. There is a one liner in the copy of the "JEWISH WARS" written
by Josephus held by the VATICAN which makes a vague allusion to Jesus that scholars
agree is a fraudulent insertion. Jesus left no writings nor are there any extant writings
referable to him in his lifetime. Your quotation "that the blood of all the prophets,
which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation"---
is either a manifestation of a very high fever you experienced or mushrooms. Nor
is there any evidence that Jesus claimed "he laid down his life........" My expert advice is---
that which at one time was called a WASSERMAN TEST

In Josephus’ “Antiquities of the Jews” (20.9.1), he speaks of the stoning of James, and identifies him as the brother of Jesus: “and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.” Here, Josephus unwittingly supports the gospel record, speaking of the existence of both James and Jesus; and most importantly, his identification of Jesus as the one “called Christ.”

As for Christ saying he laid down his life, that comes from the Bible, so why should followers of Christ have any animosity towards Jews?

The Catholic church in it's darker days are the ones who launched the oppression of the Jews, but back then, people could not read and did not have Bibles to read it for themselves. Instead, they took the word of the church that was more of a worldly run government than a religious institution.

You cannot mix the wickedness of the politics of man with the righteousness of God, which is why Christ neither sought political power or to raise an army.

 

[irosie91]

In Josephus’ “Antiquities of the Jews” (20.9.1), he speaks of the stoning of James, and identifies him as the brother of Jesus: “and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.” Here, Josephus unwittingly supports the gospel record, speaking of the existence of both James and Jesus; and most importantly, his identification of Jesus as the one “called Christ.”

read the story of Stephen again-----it, clearly, does not describe a trial and death
sentence by the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin NEVER met in the ruins of the Second
Temple.. Nor is the action----a bunch of unnamed persons running after a person
named Stephen throwing rocks at him the description of an execution---it is a
description of a mob action (assuming there is any veracity to that silly story at all.)

 

[Votto]

read the story of Stephen again-----it, clearly, does not describe a trial and death
sentence by the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin NEVER met in the ruins of the Second
Temple.. Not is the action----a bunch of unnamed persons running after a person
named Stephen throwing rocks at him the description of an execution---it is a
description of a mob action (assuming there is any veracity to that silly story at all.)

No rebuttal as to disproving the assertion Josephus never spoke of Jesus?

Why continue to debate then?

 

[rosends]

No rebuttal as to disproving the assertion Josephus never spoke of Jesus?

Why continue to debate then?

the claims regarding Josephus have been argued for a while now. There are many who believe that references to Jesus were Eusebian interpolations, not actually Josephus' words. Other say that the writing (or at least the base ideas) were authentic.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[irosie91]

No rebuttal as to disproving the assertion Josephus never spoke of Jesus?

Why continue to debate then?

you did not come close to demonstrating or proving ANYTHING----Josephus
gave no account of the vague character named Stephen (brother of Jesus)
and his only comment on Jesus is IN DISPUTE and just describes 'a person who does
miracles" ---vaguely. Even if the putative insertion is genuine (not likely) the lines
describe virtually nothing----there were LOTS of people named Jesus----it is the
aramaic/greek form of JOSHUA

 

[norwegen]

Now, now, there may have been a good reason to nail him on a cross to die

The question is, why?

Antisemitism does not enter the picture since Jews were killing another Jew.

Jesus lived at the end of an age within his community that was rife with warmongering, worshiping idols, subverting the law of its most beloved prophet, and teaching an erroneous salvation. Israel was in conflict with herself. Her loyalties were divided between the faithless and the remnants, and by the time of their Messiah, the faithless had rendered her faith utterly lifeless.

He threatened their traditions. So, "Crucify, crucify him!" they shouted.

 

[norwegen]

the Jews blamed the Romans? Fricke is a German lawyer who isn't Jewish. Why do you suddenly turn and blame Jews when I cited a book written by a non-Jew?

Also, Jesus did not commit blasphemy according to Jewish law. As stated (by the book and me, in my recap of it) Rome crucified Jesus because he was a political and military threat.

You didn't cite that book. You merely referenced it. What did the author say?

Certainly, he didn't say anything about Christ's threat to Roman authority that he pulled from the New Testament, did he?

 

[Votto]

the claims regarding Josephus have been argued for a while now. There are many who believe that references to Jesus were Eusebian interpolations, not actually Josephus' words. Other say that the writing (or at least the base ideas) were authentic.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sure, people also question the Bible.

But what you have is religious text agreeing with a secular text.

Pretty good evidence if you ask me.

 

[Votto]

You didn't cite that book. You merely referenced it. What did the author say?

Certainly, he didn't say anything about Christ's threat to Roman authority that he pulled from the New Testament, did he?

I tried to get more info from him, but nothing.

 

[Blaster]

This is in response to the thread about why Jews reject Jesus as Messiah

Answer this question and you get your answer to the other thread.

After all, the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish leaders of the time of Jesus is why he was rejected by Jews today.

Jesus died for our sins.

 

[Votto]

Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that as well.

But people question the mere existence of Jesus or that he died on a cross, which seems absurd to any historian worth their salt.

 

[rosends]

You didn't cite that book. You merely referenced it. What did the author say?

Certainly, he didn't say anything about Christ's threat to Roman authority that he pulled from the New Testament, did he?

Why don't you read the book and find out? Why are you resisting. $1.97 (plus shipping probably) and you can have all your answers.