Why the war in Ukraine is important to the West (long post)

Try and stop posting lavatory wall graffiti and teach yourself what being a Nazi is .

Give me your passport photo for teaching me something about Nazis, superidiot.

Try a definition of Eugenics plus NO free speech and you have a simple definition of Fascism .

Aha. So Russia is a fascist state in your view to the world.

Flavour the fascist philosophy with a specific view of racial superiority and you have the type which labels it Nazi Fascism.

One moment please: If you had been Commies in world war 2 and now you are fascist Nazis - who had won world war 2 in Russia? No one?

This might help you avoid being labelled as factually ignorant once people like you start throwing childish ad hominem insults .

Which insult? You said with many words here nothing else than "Russia is a fascist Nazi state". By the way: What expresses the "z" on your tanks? Nazi?
 
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
[...]
I find that to be a totally brainless question.

It was a democratic US president that signed the security guarantees for Ukraine in 1994 - therefore clearly making Ukraine a national strategic US interest.
No other US president or US government ever reneged onto that 1994 treaty.
There is now a democratic president in the USA that needs to fulfill that obligation towards Ukraine - since Ukraine is of vital interest towards US expansion since 1994.

Anything that "endangers" the USA's global standing - is considered/sold as being of national strategic interest. Even the superpower Grenada got to feel that.
 
Aha. So Russia is a fascist state in your view to the world.



One moment please: If you had been Commies in world war 2 and now you are fascist Nazis - who had won world war 2 in Russia? No one?
Back to school .

You betray your ignorance for everybody to see which is exactly as I hoped .

You are way out of your intellectual depth and pay grade . I appreciate English is

not your first language but you are babbling
like a chicken on steroids .
 
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Back to school .

You betray your ignorance for everybody to see which is exactly as I hoped .

You are way out of your intellectual depth and pay grade . I appreciate English is not your first language but you are babbling


like a chicken on steroids .

AI Program? No information but desinformation while using the English language?
 
I find that to be a totally brainless question.

It was a democratic US president that signed the security guarantees for Ukraine in 1994 - therefore clearly making Ukraine a national strategic US interest.
No other US president or US government ever reneged onto that 1994 treaty.
There is now a democratic president in the USA that needs to fulfill that obligation towards Ukraine - since Ukraine is of vital interest towards US expansion since 1994.

Anything that "endangers" the USA's global standing - is considered/sold as being of national strategic interest. Even the superpower Grenada got to feel that.
As you know, there was no Budapest Agreement in place since 2014 when President Barack Obama stood aside and allowed President Putin to invade and occupy Crimea.

Now try to answer the questions posed by Tucker Carlson.

President Obama reneged on the Budapest agreement when he stood by while Russia took Crimea.

"What undid the diplomatic feat was the “collective failure” of Washington and Kyiv to take into account the rise of someone like Vladimir V. Putin, Steven Pifer, a negotiator of the Budapest Memorandum and a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine now at Stanford University, said in an interview. After Russian troops invaded Crimea in early 2014 and stepped up a proxy war in eastern Ukraine, Mr. Putin dismissed the Budapest accord as null and void."

 
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?

Absolutely. Neither the global economy nor the US economy can grow and prosper without international trade and international trade cannot flourish in the absence of internationally accepted rules of order. In the invasion of Ukraine, Putin violated all relevant international laws and treaties and has made clear he believes all land that ever belonged to Russia still belongs to Russia and he won't be stopped from claiming it by any laws or treaties, therefor an environment in which international trade can flourish cannot be reestablished until Russia's neo colonial ambitions are quelled. If not in Ukraine, then where?
Please show us the immense trade we have with Ukraine. We trade with Russia, why would we not trade with Ukraine under Russia's iron fist? We trade with them under Ukraine's iron fist. Trade is not a reason, as you well know.

2023-03-20%20US%20Trade%20Partners-XL.jpg


To quote you, "If not in Ukraine, then where?"
If not Vietnam, where? If not Afghanistan, where? If not any of the other unwinnable wars we were involved in, where?

Once again, this time with gusto.
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
 
With proxy war has the current situation absolutelly nothing to do. You see the glow rise of a deadly world war. Everyone on our planet is in danger to lose more than only everything.



What a nonsense. The Ukrainian people wan the respect of all serios men of our planet. It's unbelievable that they are resisting now since more than one year against the extremely deadly Russian aggression and criminal invasion of their country.


That's a brave attempt at the English language. Putin offered peace with the Ukraine becoming a neutral country. Now there will most likely be 'no' Ukraine.

Europe and the Ukraine have fallen victim to just another of America's wars that is intended to break up Russia into managable pieces.
 
Thank you for your thoughts on the questions Tucker Carlson posed to the potential Republican presidential candidates. I appreciate your time.
Yes, as long as it is strengthening and solidifying the NATO alliance.
Nope, Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
To preserve Ukraine as a sovereign nation in any meaningful form.

Making sure that Russia is unable to make any significant advance from the current frontline is the first sign of that.
Fine, but WHY? President Obama sat back and allowed President Putin to void the 1994 Budapest agreement in 2014 and allowed Putin to invade Crimea.
There is no certain figure. Ukraine should support itself economically after the active fighting is finished. Though, some loans and grants are inevitable for rebuilding damaged infrastructure.

Also, it seems that the bulk of financing for Ukrainian military, namely rearmament on NATO standards and training, will be provided from the NATO funds.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Shouldn't NATO members be paying their agreed-upon commitments and bolstering the defense of their members?
They are not stronger. The Russian GDP fell on around 3% in 2022, despite high prices on oil and record high prices of natural gas.

The revenues of the Russian budget is expected to fall this year further, after the price cap on Russian oil having been imposed and the most profitable European market for Russian natural gas is shrinking.

Are sanctions working? Why Russia’s economy continues to grow

William Mata
February 1, 2023·5 min read

Sanctions on Russia “might not be having the impact the West had hoped” a financial expert has said after the International Monetary Fund’s forecast.

On Tuesday, the IMF predicted the British economy would contract 0.6 percent against the 0.3 percent growth penciled in last October - which puts the UK last in terms of G7 nations.
[...]
The IMF has said Russian output will expand 0.3 percent in this year and 2.1 percent next year, defying earlier predictions. Russia has been tipped as an emerging economy as it continues to trade with other countries and their predicted downtown has not been as severe as they feared. A spokesman from the fund said: “At the current oil price cap level of the G7, Russian crude oil export volumes are not expected to be significantly affected, with Russian trade continuing to be redirected from sanctioning to non-sanctioning countries.”


No. The Putin regime won't go that far. Especially after China and India voiced their concerns about that.
I pray that you are right.

The problem, as I see it, is that China is meeting with Russia today. That's an alliance made in Hell. Iran is selling weapons to Russia.
 
Goofy thread.

Being opposed to an ever-expanding proxy war with Russia does not mean someone aligns themselves with Russia. You know that's true but you're desperate to defend the indefensible.

Instead of your diatribe, take a risk, and answer these reasonable questions from Tucker Carlson to the Republican candidates. This will be a lot shorter than your essay.

Won't it be great when the Democrat candidates answer the same questions?
I would like to answer for them.
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
Yes, it is vital in that it's part of the struggle by America for uncontested power. The China/Russia alliance must be stopped! This is America's proxy war for all the marbles!
What specifically is our objective in Ukraine, and how will we know when we’ve achieved it?
The answer to the first question explains it. America will know when the Ukraine see victory over Russia.
What is the limit of funding and material you would be willing to send to the government of Ukraine?
Any American who considers that America must continue to wield power over the rest of the world, would have to say that there is no limit. This is war against Russia to the end. Losing the war isn't an option for either America or Russia.
Should the United States support regime change in Russia?
Ideally, in the minds of Americans, that would be important. In reality, Putin leads Russia with commitment but a leader who steps up to replace Putin would be just as sold in his resolve to fight America. So no, regime change will gain America nothing.
[...]
Given that Russia’s economy and currency are stronger than before the war, do you believe that U.S. sanctions have been effective?
No, the sanctions have failed.
[...]
Do you believe the United States faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia?
Only if Russia is threatened with defeat. Mutually agreed upon limitations of the war are holding, albeit precariously. But the winner of the proxy war with ukraine doing the fighting is now settled. It's not likely that America is going to accept that. There's too much at stake for America allowing Russia to continue as a world power. And together with China, the world's greatest allied world power.
 
I would like to answer for them.

Yes, it is vital in that it's part of the struggle by America for uncontested power. The China/Russia alliance must be stopped! This is America's proxy war for all the marbles!

The answer to the first question explains it. America will know when the Ukraine see victory over Russia.

Any American who considers that America must continue to wield power over the rest of the world, would have to say that there is no limit. This is war against Russia to the end. Losing the war isn't an option for either America or Russia.

Ideally, in the minds of Americans, that would be important. In reality, Putin leads Russia with commitment but a leader who steps up to replace Putin would be just as sold in his resolve to fight America. So no, regime change will gain America nothing.

No, the sanctions have failed.

Only if Russia is threatened with defeat. Mutually agreed upon limitations of the war are holding, albeit precariously. But the winner of the proxy war with ukraine doing the fighting is now settled. It's not likely that America is going to accept that. There's too much at stake for America allowing Russia to continue as a world power. And together with China, the world's greatest allied world power.
Thank you for your thoughtful response!
 
Please show us the immense trade we have with Ukraine. We trade with Russia, why would we not trade with Ukraine under Russia's iron fist? We trade with them under Ukraine's iron fist. Trade is not a reason, as you well know.

2023-03-20%20US%20Trade%20Partners-XL.jpg


To quote you, "If not in Ukraine, then where?"
If not Vietnam, where? If not Afghanistan, where? If not any of the other unwinnable wars we were involved in, where?

Once again, this time with gusto.
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
I was referring, of course, to the effect of continuing Russian aggressions against its neighbors and how that would affect the global economy of which the US economy is a part. This war has already produced global shortages in energy, food, etc., and these shortages raise the costs of production of things America buys from other countries and lowers demand for goods and services America sells to them.

Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, economists estimated that the global recovery from the pandemic would produce a 5% growth in the global economy; a little later that was lowered to 3% because of the effects of the war and more recently that was lowered to 2.2%. Our oceans do not protect us from the effects of events in the global economy and you can't make America great again if you adopt a foreign policy that negatively affects the global economy.
 
Nope, Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
That is not, and never has been, the standard for providing military assistance to another country. We provide military aid for countries all around the world that are not NATO countries.
Fine, but WHY? President Obama sat back and allowed President Putin to void the 1994 Budapest agreement in 2014 and allowed Putin to invade Crimea.
Putin cannot unilaterally suspend the Budapest agreement, and Obama's inaction didn't suspend it either- though I agree he greenlighted the invasion of Crimea.

Maybe if he had stood up to Putin in 2014, Ukraine wouldn't be in this situation today...
 
Please show us the immense trade we have with Ukraine. We trade with Russia, why would we not trade with Ukraine under Russia's iron fist? We trade with them under Ukraine's iron fist. Trade is not a reason, as you well know.

2023-03-20%20US%20Trade%20Partners-XL.jpg


To quote you, "If not in Ukraine, then where?"
If not Vietnam, where? If not Afghanistan, where? If not any of the other unwinnable wars we were involved in, where?

Once again, this time with gusto.
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
That is not, and never has been, the standard for providing military assistance to another country. We provide military aid for countries all around the world that are not NATO countries.

Putin cannot unilaterally suspend the Budapest agreement, and Obama's inaction didn't suspend it either- though I agree he greenlighted the invasion of Crimea.

Maybe if he had stood up to Putin in 2014, Ukraine wouldn't be in this situation today...
If his people in Kiev hadn’t orchestrated a coup in 2014 Ukraine wouldn’t be in this situation today.
 
Nope, Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

Fine, but WHY? President Obama sat back and allowed President Putin to void the 1994 Budapest agreement in 2014 and allowed Putin to invade Crimea.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Shouldn't NATO members be paying their agreed-upon commitments and bolstering the defense of their members?

Are sanctions working? Why Russia’s economy continues to grow

William Mata
February 1, 2023·5 min read

Sanctions on Russia “might not be having the impact the West had hoped” a financial expert has said after the International Monetary Fund’s forecast.

On Tuesday, the IMF predicted the British economy would contract 0.6 percent against the 0.3 percent growth penciled in last October - which puts the UK last in terms of G7 nations.
[...]
The IMF has said Russian output will expand 0.3 percent in this year and 2.1 percent next year, defying earlier predictions. Russia has been tipped as an emerging economy as it continues to trade with other countries and their predicted downtown has not been as severe as they feared. A spokesman from the fund said: “At the current oil price cap level of the G7, Russian crude oil export volumes are not expected to be significantly affected, with Russian trade continuing to be redirected from sanctioning to non-sanctioning countries.”



I pray that you are right.

The problem, as I see it, is that China is meeting with Russia today. That's an alliance made in Hell. Iran is selling weapons to Russia.
"The IMF has said Russian output will expand 0.3 percent in this year and 2.1 percent next year, defying earlier predictions."

What a strange thing that is for the IMF to say, since the Russian Finance Ministry says The Russian economy shrank by 2.5% in 2022 and is (wrongly) expected to shrink by an additional 2% in 2023, however according to the Ministry shocking shortfalls in revenues may presage a much larger contraction.
 
If his people in Kiev hadn’t orchestrated a coup in 2014 Ukraine wouldn’t be in this situation today.
That may be true, but it also means Ukraine would most likely already be under Putin's thumb, another Belarus...

But Obama's guy in 2014 was Poroshenko, and Zelensky defeated him in 2019. As far as I am concerned the Ukrainian people have spoken.
 
Nope, Ukraine is not a member of NATO
I never said it was. But this war awoke European NATO members, especially in Western Europe. NATO again has a reason for its existence and rearmament.

Fine, but WHY? President Obama sat back and allowed President Putin to void the 1994 Budapest agreement in 2014 and allowed Putin to invade Crimea
In short? A buffer zone is needed between NATO and Russia. It is strengthening the alliance's security.

Are sanctions working? Why Russia’s economy continues to grow
This is a false answer. The Russian economy contracted last year, despite high oil prices and record high natural gas prices.

I pray that you are right.

The problem, as I see it, is that China is meeting with Russia today. That's an alliance made in Hell. Iran is selling weapons to Russia
Both China and India already made it clear they won't tolerate any using of nukes. The Putin regime can't ignore that.
 
If his people in Kiev hadn’t orchestrated a coup in 2014 Ukraine wouldn’t be in this situation today.
"If his people in Kiev hadn’t orchestrated a coup in 2014 Ukraine wouldn’t be in this situation today."

Which people and how did they do it?
 
Which people and how did they do it?
It wasn't a coup, it was a color revolution. It was organized by the Ukraine desk at State- Vindmann, Nuland, Marie Yovanovitch, et al. With support from Sleepy Joe who was in charge of the Ukraine file.

Obama's State Dept. was doing this all over the world- I didn't think that was a mystery to anyone. They would bring activists from those countries to the US and train them in conducting demonstrations and organizing through social media. The architect of the modern color revolution is a guy by the name of Norm Eisen, who wrote the manual on color revolutions called "The Democracy Playbook". It's a follow-on to Gene Sharp's From "Dictatorship to Democracy".

Eisen was also the lead council in the first Trump impeachment, where they were more than happy to throw Zelensky under the bus.

And btw, they ran the same playbook right here at home in 2020.

None of that excuses Putin's invasion, and I support Ukraine not because I support color revolutions, but because I support the right of self-determination for the Ukrainian people.
 

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