Why the war in Ukraine is important to the West (long post)

shockedcanadian

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Aug 6, 2012
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After reading so many posts on here, especially from Russian shills, I am encouraged to finally make this posting. After some pondering before producing this post, my thesis is an impulsive instinct that the West should replicate Reagans approach to avoiding war: proxy support is better than direct combat where possible.

It is how the U.S crippled Russias economy when Russia attacked Afghanistan and left after years. The difference today is that Russia has a huge ally which the West helped enrich. This complicates matters greatly, another conundrum.

Most of us understand history, some of us lived through the 80s. We probably more appreciate what the world might look like if Russia wins in Ukraine. I provide the map to illustrate what is at stake and probably the existence that Russia inspires to return to. Here are former nations of Russia that are not today, but which would all be threatened if Russia takes Ukraine: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Now, we also see Hungary, Poland and other European nations once heavily influenced by Russia could also fall. From there it's not much of a leap to see how an attack by Russia and their allies could spread to Western Europe. Look at the map, these are all small distances.

I understand that Americans in particular are asking themselves "why are we spending billions in the Ukraine when we have so many issues at home"? It's one reason I hate government waste in Canada, it hurts us when times of emergency. The war in Ukraine is an emergency.

The billions the West is spending now pales in comparisons to the many TRILLIONS in economic benefit that would be lost if Russia keeps expanding. Not to mention the lost lives and risk to our own security over time. These are high stakes no doubt and as imperfect as Ukraine is, they are dying for their freedom.

If Obamas admin had been more firm, Russia and others probably wouldn't have expanded. They underestimated Bidens will, but, they still have the upper hand and a Big Brother. Now that Ukrainians have shown the will to fight and inclination to fight in order to remain sovereign and free, the world is obligated to to help. Morally and otherwise.

Europe must be more valiant and conspicuous. More subdued in their support in some instances, more profound and direct in others.. Germany in particular if they value their own mortality. On this I definitely agree with Americans.

Demand accountability of money spent, but also respect what is at stake. It may be far more than we comprehend.




ukraine.jpg
 
Russia reclaiming the Russian dominated areas of a border land that has been under their control off & on for centuries is not a national interest for the US.
If Europe or other countries want to get involved they can go for it.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
Ukraine has been one of the most corrupt countries in the world for decades.
Ukrainian elections were overturned by a CIA sponsored color revolution in the 2014 Maiden Square Revolution.
Ukraine has a history of fascism & has actual Nazi battle groups complete with the same symbols.

Ukraine is a family squabble between drunk cousins & I vehemently object to any US tax dollars going over there to prop up a regime the NWO totalitarians want in place for their criminal activities.
 
The US has no vital national interests there.....End of story.
Of course it is a narioinal interest. Maybe not a direct military threat, but interests for certain. Any threat to an ally is a national interest, especialy if it provides a stronger strategic position for an adversarial state.
 
Of course it is a narioinal interest. Maybe not a direct military threat, but interests for certain. Any threat to an ally is a national interest, especialy if it provides a stronger strategic position for an adversarial state.
Blah, the only thing coming from Ukeland that remotely interested me were the former Soviet weapons they sold off on the surplus market (Hosers got lots of them too).

Other than that it only acted as a corrupt entity that western politicians used to launder money with each "leader" as corrupt as the next. The US even helped that along greatly in 2014 so don't try to zoom me about "mah national interests", it's bogus on it's face.

Hell, even their wheat output undercut both the US and Canadian farmers on the world market.
 
After reading so many posts on here, especially from Russian shills, I am encouraged to finally make this posting. After some pondering before producing this post, my thesis is an impulsive instinct that the West should replicate Reagans approach to avoiding war: proxy support is better than direct combat where possible.

View attachment 767226
Your thesis is something you picked up on yesterday and have now attempted to make it your own.
You're right at least in calling it America's proxy war!
 
Your thesis is something you picked up on yesterday and have now attempted to make it your own.
You're right at least in calling it America's proxy war!
Sonething I picked up on yesterday? The depths of your ignorance knows no bounds. You don't think other nations engage in proxy wars? It's how nations try to keep others in check without a direct hot war. In short, it saves lives and prevents world wars.
 
Sonething I picked up on yesterday? The depths of your ignorance knows no bounds.
We're good with being in agreement on it being a proxy war by America against Russia.

I'll leave it up to you to build on that.

As to your personal problems: I told you to deal with the cause of your headaches.
 
After reading so many posts on here, especially from Russian shills, I am encouraged to finally make this posting. After some pondering before producing this post, my thesis is an impulsive instinct that the West should replicate Reagans approach to avoiding war: proxy support is better than direct combat where possible.

It is how the U.S crippled Russias economy when Russia attacked Afghanistan and left after years. The difference today is that Russia has a huge ally which the West helped enrich. This complicates matters greatly, another conundrum.

Most of us understand history, some of us lived through the 80s. We probably more appreciate what the world might look like if Russia wins in Ukraine. I provide the map to illustrate what is at stake and probably the existence that Russia inspires to return to. Here are former nations of Russia that are not today, but which would all be threatened if Russia takes Ukraine: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Now, we also see Hungary, Poland and other European nations once heavily influenced by Russia could also fall. From there it's not much of a leap to see how an attack by Russia and their allies could spread to Western Europe. Look at the map, these are all small distances.

I understand that Americans in particular are asking themselves "why are we spending billions in the Ukraine when we have so many issues at home"? It's one reason I hate government waste in Canada, it hurts us when times of emergency. The war in Ukraine is an emergency.

The billions the West is spending now pales in comparisons to the many TRILLIONS in economic benefit that would be lost if Russia keeps expanding. Not to mention the lost lives and risk to our own security over time. These are high stakes no doubt and as imperfect as Ukraine is, they are dying for their freedom.

If Obamas admin had been more firm, Russia and others probably wouldn't have expanded. They underestimated Bidens will, but, they still have the upper hand and a Big Brother. Now that Ukrainians have shown the will to fight and inclination to fight in order to remain sovereign and free, the world is obligated to to help. Morally and otherwise.

Europe must be more valiant and conspicuous. More subdued in their support in some instances, more profound and direct in others.. Germany in particular if they value their own mortality. On this I definitely agree with Americans.

Demand accountability of money spent, but also respect what is at stake. It may be far more than we comprehend.




View attachment 767226

Here the Russian equivalent:

1437855307_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzkrim.jpg


After Russia will have reached the green line (Old Soviet empire) Scandinavia, Belgium, Netherlands, Danmark, the rest of wasted Germany, France, Portugal and Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey and others - like Great Britain and Ireland - will follow to fall.
 
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Here the Russian equivalent:

1437855307_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzkrim.jpg


After Russia will have reached the greem line (Old Soviet empire) Scandinavia, Belgium, Netherlands, Danmark, the rest of wasted Germany, France, Portugal and Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey and others - like Great Britain and Ireland - will follow to fall.
That can only serve as US/Nato propaganda.
 
We're good with being in agreement on it being a proxy war by America against Russia.

Russia is in war on its own. It exists no proxy for Russia - so this is no proxy war. Russia started a war against Europe in the Ukraine. Meanwhile Russia had also conquered Belarus - what you can see very clear in this Russian card.
 
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Of course it is a narioinal interest. Maybe not a direct military threat, but interests for certain. Any threat to an ally is a national interest, especialy if it provides a stronger strategic position for an adversarial state.
The first rule of the Cold War, which kept it cold for decades - do not threat your adversary too much. Do not point your cocked and loaded gun on them if you don't have intention to shoot immediately. Ukraine is not "Russian Cuba". It's not a a gun pointed into their head. It's a barrel of a gun, placed in their mouth. Therefore, the Russians won't tolerate it for literally any cost, including first nuclear attack against the USA.
 
Russia is in war on its own. It exists no proxy for Russia - so this is no proxy war. Russia started a war against Europe in the Ukraine. Meanwhile Russia had also conquered Belarus - what you can see very clear in this Russian card.
No. It was EU, who started Maidan in Ukraine and overthroned Yanukovich. You started the war against Russia, and you should fight it for your own.
 
We're good with being in agreement on it being a proxy war by America against Russia.

I'll leave it up to you to build on that.

As to your personal problems: I told you to deal with the cause of your headaches.

This is a war by Russia on the Ukranian people. Are you suggesting that Canada, England, Germany, Poland and others have started a proxy war against Russia? They are responding to assist a weaker nation.

You're just a troll, As much as you think you are effective you are wrong. You've probably done more harm than good to those you think you are helping, not that you would understand this
 
Russia is in war on its own. It exists no proxy for Russia - so this is no proxy war. Russia started a war against Europe in the Ukraine. Meanwhile Russia had also conquered Belarus - what you can see very clear in this Russian card.
You're a bit lost in the translation, as well as you also losing sight of our OP's intent on it being a US proxy war.

I continue to see a mass slaughter of the Ukrainian people and a mass migration from the Ukraine by the fortunate ones.

And I see America's track record on continuous wars of aggression since the end of WW2 as being a factor that can't be ignored.

Neither Russia or America can win this war but the Ukrainian people have already lost it.
 
This is a war by Russia on the Ukranian people. Are you suggesting that Canada, England, Germany, Poland and others have started a proxy war against Russia? They are responding to assist a weaker nation.
It's you that conceded that it was a proxy war my friend. Are you confused or do you believe that Russia has a proxy in the fight? Do you even understand what 'proxy' means?
You're just a troll, As much as you think you are effective you are wrong.
I haven't made any claims of being effective, but you're unconsciously making the claim for me.
You've probably done more harm than good to those you think you are helping, not that you would understand this
My intent is to help convince the Ukrainian people that they must tell America to go home, and then offer terms for peace that Russia can accept.

Fwiw, you are able to voice the popular talking points some days, as you do toady, but you're practically incoherent the next day. The symptoms indicate bipolarity, as opposed to any lack of ability.
 

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