Why the poor should be taxed more heavily.

[RodISHI]

Did you actually read this before posting it? Whoa re the ultra rich? Why are they so poor?

Was the post addressed to you?

I've never made any claims for good grammar or good English skills.

Who owns Sears?

Who owns Martin Marietta and who owns Old Castle?

How do the CEO's of mega banks and mega corporations become a CEO of a bank or those mega corps so they can strip multiple millions off the top each year as they get that creative accounting going? Who are they? Where do they get their working capital? Who's wages and/or benefits get cut first when times get tough?

Who is the head of CISCO and Cargill? What ties do they have to CITI and Wells Fargo, GE? What do these companies have in common? Where do they all meet every year? Can you name the rest I did not list?

Tell me how did a mega corporation finagle a couple hundred million out of taxpayers in two little ole projects in Des Moines, Iowa on the lie that they would be creating at least sixty long term jobs? The routine goes like this, "Let's call it a fund and get everyone to jump aboard so we can keep the money rolling in? We will use their money to build our projects and we can tell them what a value it is going to be to the community. We will be hero's in their eyes. They will never know it was their money we used. If they do ever figure it out we will be on to something new by then."

"Pull a figure out of your ass, make up a good story and sell it to the people. They won't know for years. By the time they figure it out it is to late. The beauty of it is we used their money to do it."


If you can answer all those questions I asked correctly I may take the time to respond to your questions.

Well yeah actually the post was addressed to me, and everyone else on this board.
Who own Sears? It's owned by the stockholders, which includes thousands of middle class and working class people.
Martin Marietta ditto. I dont know a thing about Old Castle.
Who are the CEO's of those corps? I dont know. Check their web site and SEC filings. How did they get there? They were hired by the board, which was elected by the shareholders.
I honestly don't give a shit if you bother to respond to my post because your ignorance and class envy is enormous. I doubt you have much of value to add here.

Your precepts are ignorant being you know nothing about me, who I am or where I come from. I can tell you this though. I know who the CEO's of those corporations are and on a whole I know that they bought their way into those positions. I could care less what they have or what they do with their own wealth other than I know what they do and how they do it and where they got the majority of it and it damn sure was not in an honest or in a manner that is fully above board.

If your precepts by what you have posted represents what the Republican party stands for at this time I can tell you that Obama will most likely be president for 8 years not just 4 years.

My post was directed at MM and no other, he started the thread.

 

[Father Time]

this highlites a certain point, and that is "the poor" are poor by choice.

Yes because people actually want to live in poverty.

yep, some do, you finally figuring that out?

Some? How much is some, 5% 40% what?

Oh and I thought you were saying all or at least most choose to remain poor, sorry I guess.

 

[RodISHI]

There are PLENTY of government programs already in place that give them AMPLE opportunity but they are either comfortable living in squalor or just plain LAZY.

Can you name off those programs? I may wanna make application.

Obviously you have a computer...know how to post messages on a message board...I'll bet you know how to use google too...
Do a little research. You will find a multitude of Federal and State programs that give educational grants, small business loans/grants, scholarships and financial aid for retraining in another career. It all depends on how bad you want it. If you like living with a family of cockroaches, that's fine...if you want to move up, set a good example for your kids and show your other family members that you actually want to improve your life on your own then I strongly encourage you to take advantage of the programs that best suit your needs. Remember this though...it requires hard work, sacrifice and there will be ups and downs....but if you stick with it...you'll make it.

You do a little betting don't ya. Maybe I already built a multi-million dollar company. Let's bet that is a good possibility that I did that without any government programs or student loans. Let's bet that people had a little better set of ethics than many have in this day. Let's also take a bet to say I work from the very bottom rungs of this society into that position. Let us say I know it can be done. Yet let's be honest about it all and say that it can be stolen in a heartbeat because this country has gotten so slimy and corrupt it is almost hard to believe that it could be that bad.

Those programs are so full of graft and collusion they are like a run a away freight train eating up every decent thing this country has ever purportedly stood for.

 

[mskafka]

" I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
-- Benjamin Franklin, November 1776

Just maybe, if the poor were taxed more heavily than the wealthy, it would encourage them to better their position in life so that they could avoid paying so much in taxes.
The government frequently taxes things to discourage it. Things like tobacco and alcohol come to mind. The cap and trade will be a tax to discourage certain types of energy usage the government doesn't want.

Bad, BAD idea.

 

[Paulie]

We should tax sex to discourage the spread of AIDS, and also unwanted pregnancies.

We should tax abortion, and the AIDS patients too, just in case the sex tax wasn't enough to control things.

 

[RodISHI]

We should tax sex to discourage the spread of AIDS, and also unwanted pregnancies.

We should tax abortion, and the AIDS patients too, just in case the sex tax wasn't enough to control things.

How ya going to tax them self fulfilling masturbation experts?

 

[edthecynic]

Did you actually read this before posting it? Whoa re the ultra rich? Why are they so poor?

Was the post addressed to you?

I've never made any claims for good grammar or good English skills.

Who owns Sears?

Who owns Martin Marietta and who owns Old Castle?

How do the CEO's of mega banks and mega corporations become a CEO of a bank or those mega corps so they can strip multiple millions off the top each year as they get that creative accounting going? Who are they? Where do they get their working capital? Who's wages and/or benefits get cut first when times get tough?

Who is the head of CISCO and Cargill? What ties do they have to CITI and Wells Fargo, GE? What do these companies have in common? Where do they all meet every year? Can you name the rest I did not list?

Tell me how did a mega corporation finagle a couple hundred million out of taxpayers in two little ole projects in Des Moines, Iowa on the lie that they would be creating at least sixty long term jobs? The routine goes like this, "Let's call it a fund and get everyone to jump aboard so we can keep the money rolling in? We will use their money to build our projects and we can tell them what a value it is going to be to the community. We will be hero's in their eyes. They will never know it was their money we used. If they do ever figure it out we will be on to something new by then."

"Pull a figure out of your ass, make up a good story and sell it to the people. They won't know for years. By the time they figure it out it is to late. The beauty of it is we used their money to do it."


If you can answer all those questions I asked correctly I may take the time to respond to your questions.

Well yeah actually the post was addressed to me, and everyone else on this board.
Who own Sears? It's owned by the stockholders, which includes thousands of middle class and working class people.
Martin Marietta ditto. I dont know a thing about Old Castle.
Who are the CEO's of those corps? I dont know. Check their web site and SEC filings. How did they get there? They were hired by the board, which was elected by the shareholders.
I honestly don't give a shit if you bother to respond to my post because your ignorance and class envy is enormous. I doubt you have much of value to add here.

The middle class has barely 10% of the stock!!! You are typically misinformed.

Table 5: Concentration of stock ownership by wealth class in the United States, 2001
Wealth class Percent of all stock owned
Top 1% 33.5%
Next 19% 55.8%
Bottom 80% 10.7%

From Wolff (2004). Includes direct ownership of stock shares and indirect ownership through mutual funds, trusts, and IRAs, Keogh plans, 401(k) plans, and other retirement accounts. All figures are in 2001 dollars.

 

[The Rabbi]

That doesn't in any way refute anything I've written.
Misinformed is your middle name.

 

[edthecynic]

That doesn't in any way refute anything I've written.
Misinformed is your middle name.

It completely refutes your post. You can't see it because you do not understand the subtle difference between ownership and control and how the MONOPOLISTS rule.

The little bit of stock the middle class OWNS does not give them any CONTROL. Say their stock is in a 401k or mutual fund, etc., the "owner" doesn't VOTE the stock, the fund manager does.

To give you a real world example of the difference between ownership and control. When Rockefeller was forced to divest his ownership of Standard Oil of New Jersey (ESSO later EXXON) on paper he OWNED only 25% after divestiture. So some stockholders tried to remove him from the board but even though he had only 25% of the stock he voted and therefore controlled 60% of the proxies. So Rockefeller STILL controlled the Oil Monopoly even after Standard Oil had been "broken up."
There is no such thing in practice as "free market" Capitalism, there is only Monopolistic Capitalism.

 

[The Rabbi]

That doesn't in any way refute anything I've written.
Misinformed is your middle name.

It completely refutes your post. You can't see it because you do not understand the subtle difference between ownership and control and how the MONOPOLISTS rule.

The little bit of stock the middle class OWNS does not give them any CONTROL. Say their stock is in a 401k or mutual fund, etc., the "owner" doesn't VOTE the stock, the fund manager does.

To give you a real world example of the difference between ownership and control. When Rockefeller was forced to divest his ownership of Standard Oil of New Jersey (ESSO later EXXON) on paper he OWNED only 25% after divestiture. So some stockholders tried to remove him from the board but even though he had only 25% of the stock he voted and therefore controlled 60% of the proxies. So Rockefeller STILL controlled the Oil Monopoly even after Standard Oil had been "broken up."
There is no such thing in practice as "free market" Capitalism, there is only Monopolistic Capitalism.

No, your problem is an inability to read and make logical deductions. Nothing you've posted contradicts anything I've posted.
And citing an example from, what, the 1890s really isn't going to persuade too many people.

 

[Care4all]

Was the post addressed to you?

I've never made any claims for good grammar or good English skills.

Who owns Sears?

Who owns Martin Marietta and who owns Old Castle?

How do the CEO's of mega banks and mega corporations become a CEO of a bank or those mega corps so they can strip multiple millions off the top each year as they get that creative accounting going? Who are they? Where do they get their working capital? Who's wages and/or benefits get cut first when times get tough?

Who is the head of CISCO and Cargill? What ties do they have to CITI and Wells Fargo, GE? What do these companies have in common? Where do they all meet every year? Can you name the rest I did not list?

Tell me how did a mega corporation finagle a couple hundred million out of taxpayers in two little ole projects in Des Moines, Iowa on the lie that they would be creating at least sixty long term jobs? The routine goes like this, "Let's call it a fund and get everyone to jump aboard so we can keep the money rolling in? We will use their money to build our projects and we can tell them what a value it is going to be to the community. We will be hero's in their eyes. They will never know it was their money we used. If they do ever figure it out we will be on to something new by then."

"Pull a figure out of your ass, make up a good story and sell it to the people. They won't know for years. By the time they figure it out it is to late. The beauty of it is we used their money to do it."


If you can answer all those questions I asked correctly I may take the time to respond to your questions.

Well yeah actually the post was addressed to me, and everyone else on this board.
Who own Sears? It's owned by the stockholders, which includes thousands of middle class and working class people.
Martin Marietta ditto. I dont know a thing about Old Castle.
Who are the CEO's of those corps? I dont know. Check their web site and SEC filings. How did they get there? They were hired by the board, which was elected by the shareholders.
I honestly don't give a shit if you bother to respond to my post because your ignorance and class envy is enormous. I doubt you have much of value to add here.

The middle class has barely 10% of the stock!!! You are typically misinformed.

Table 5: Concentration of stock ownership by wealth class in the United States, 2001
Wealth class Percent of all stock owned
Top 1% 33.5%
Next 19% 55.8%
Bottom 80% 10.7%

From Wolff (2004). Includes direct ownership of stock shares and indirect ownership through mutual funds, trusts, and IRAs, Keogh plans, 401(k) plans, and other retirement accounts. All figures are in 2001 dollars.

interesting figures....and just as i thought....the so called middle class workers, the bottom 80%, don't own diddly poo! but boy oh boy, it sure has been SOLD that it is the middle class as the majority invested in stocks and wall street.... so this is just another lie being spun, huh? i believed it too!

 

[oreo]

Can you name off those programs? I may wanna make application.

Obviously you have a computer...know how to post messages on a message board...I'll bet you know how to use google too...
Do a little research. You will find a multitude of Federal and State programs that give educational grants, small business loans/grants, scholarships and financial aid for retraining in another career. It all depends on how bad you want it. If you like living with a family of cockroaches, that's fine...if you want to move up, set a good example for your kids and show your other family members that you actually want to improve your life on your own then I strongly encourage you to take advantage of the programs that best suit your needs. Remember this though...it requires hard work, sacrifice and there will be ups and downs....but if you stick with it...you'll make it.

You do a little betting don't ya. Maybe I already built a multi-million dollar company. Let's bet that is a good possibility that I did that without any government programs or student loans. Let's bet that people had a little better set of ethics than many have in this day. Let's also take a bet to say I work from the very bottom rungs of this society into that position. Let us say I know it can be done. Yet let's be honest about it all and say that it can be stolen in a heartbeat because this country has gotten so slimy and corrupt it is almost hard to believe that it could be that bad.

Those programs are so full of graft and collusion they are like a run a away freight train eating up every decent thing this country has ever purportedly stood for.

DITTO--

Unfortunately our tax system is set up to punish the successful while rewarding failure.

Right now only 1% of the population in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base. While we have 40% of this country that falls under the bar--that pays no federal income tax what-so-ever.

Now we have an administration determined to punish the successful even more--while rewarding more to the failures--in his redistribution of wealth policy.

We have an administration that is so "anti-business" that he has proposed to tax them even higher--even though our corporations are the highest taxed in the entire world.

This will only drive the final nail in our economy. Business will be fleeing this country in mass--leading to more unemployment.

Now--for you nay-sayers out there that do not believe in trickle down economics--I have just one question for you.

Name me one POOR person you know that has ever employed another POOR person?



You are living it right now. This is Obamanomics versus Reaganomics. While economists are predicting a NO JOBS recovery--think about it. It's economics 101.

 

[edthecynic]

That doesn't in any way refute anything I've written.
Misinformed is your middle name.

It completely refutes your post. You can't see it because you do not understand the subtle difference between ownership and control and how the MONOPOLISTS rule.

The little bit of stock the middle class OWNS does not give them any CONTROL. Say their stock is in a 401k or mutual fund, etc., the "owner" doesn't VOTE the stock, the fund manager does.

To give you a real world example of the difference between ownership and control. When Rockefeller was forced to divest his ownership of Standard Oil of New Jersey (ESSO later EXXON) on paper he OWNED only 25% after divestiture. So some stockholders tried to remove him from the board but even though he had only 25% of the stock he voted and therefore controlled 60% of the proxies. So Rockefeller STILL controlled the Oil Monopoly even after Standard Oil had been "broken up."
There is no such thing in practice as "free market" Capitalism, there is only Monopolistic Capitalism.

No, your problem is an inability to read and make logical deductions. Nothing you've posted contradicts anything I've posted.
And citing an example from, what, the 1890s really isn't going to persuade too many people.

It was actually 1910-11 but that makes no difference, the same monopolists still rule today. They CONTROL both parties all major media and 95% of the fortune 500.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was actually 1910-11 but that makes no difference, the same monopolists still rule today. They CONTROL both parties all major media and 95% of the fortune 500.

John D Rockefeller controls both parties and the major media?? Wow. What a talented guy.
Please, take your crazy populist talk and go elsewhere. We're full up here.

 

[REVxERIK]

" I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
-- Benjamin Franklin, November 1776

Just maybe, if the poor were taxed more heavily than the wealthy, it would encourage them to better their position in life so that they could avoid paying so much in taxes.
The government frequently taxes things to discourage it. Things like tobacco and alcohol come to mind. The cap and trade will be a tax to discourage certain types of energy usage the government doesn't want.

Good post. It's Much akin to "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime..."

Franklin was a wise nman, as were much of our Founders. Too bad their lessons are rebuffed as being old.

I'd like to see something like this happen. But I doubt it ever will. Liberals will see it as heartless because it USURPS their power over the POOR...

it is heartless. some people don't choose their situations, like a divorce, or business going under, just kicking them while their down is heartless.

 

[edthecynic]

Right now only 1% of the population in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base.

I nailed you on this lie multiple times when you claimed it was 65%, increasing it 2% does not make it any less a lie!!!

 

[The Rabbi]

it is heartless. some people don't choose their situations, like a divorce, or business going under, just kicking them while their down is heartless.

People choose their own situations. Everyone who got divorced chose to get married. Everyone who's business went under chose to open one.
But people like that might need temporary assistance. That's what churches and community groups are for.
The others are just too damn lazy to get off their keisters and get work. Gov't assistance actually encourages them in this, teaching them they are too incompetant to get a job and they are not responsible for their own welfare. We saw this in NOLA. Compare the results of NOLA with the Iowa floods. There are still people in NOLA wondering when the gov't is going to get around to providing them with new housing.

 

[oreo]

" I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
-- Benjamin Franklin, November 1776

Just maybe, if the poor were taxed more heavily than the wealthy, it would encourage them to better their position in life so that they could avoid paying so much in taxes.
The government frequently taxes things to discourage it. Things like tobacco and alcohol come to mind. The cap and trade will be a tax to discourage certain types of energy usage the government doesn't want.

Good post. It's Much akin to "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime..."

Franklin was a wise nman, as were much of our Founders. Too bad their lessons are rebuffed as being old.

I'd like to see something like this happen. But I doubt it ever will. Liberals will see it as heartless because it USURPS their power over the POOR...

it is heartless. some people don't choose their situations, like a divorce, or business going under, just kicking them while their down is heartless.

Some don't choose their situations. I feel we need to take care of the disabled-

-but I am not responsible for who someone decided to marry--or mismanagement of someone else's business that failed. Sorry--but I don't buy that one.

Most of the welfare in this country is dooled out to people who had a choice & made the WRONG choice.

It's very simple--if you start feeding the squirrels in your back yard--you will notice they come back again & again for more food. In fact they actually stop foraging for themselves.

 

[edthecynic]

It was actually 1910-11 but that makes no difference, the same monopolists still rule today. They CONTROL both parties all major media and 95% of the fortune 500.

John D Rockefeller controls both parties and the major media?? Wow. What a talented guy.
Please, take your crazy populist talk and go elsewhere. We're full up here.

John D is long dead, it's David who RULES today.

And when did YOU become WE???

 

[The Rabbi]

It was actually 1910-11 but that makes no difference, the same monopolists still rule today. They CONTROL both parties all major media and 95% of the fortune 500.

John D Rockefeller controls both parties and the major media?? Wow. What a talented guy.
Please, take your crazy populist talk and go elsewhere. We're full up here.

John D is long dead, it's David who RULES today.

And when did YOU become WE???

So this country is really ruled by David Rockefeller? I never would have known that a 94 year old man rules this country. And to think I bothered to vote.