why not just sit on your butt and pray?

They can hear God's voice. I heard God speaking through scripture in Church, called up a friend in another country, spoke the scripture and it had the same effect here that it had there because people are conscious of God's voice speaking through scripture. They get startled, Hollie and their conscience is pricked.

The revivals were started because they heard God's word speaking through scripture.



The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Various | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org

What the Westminster Confession of Faith helps me prove is that it isn't just me but we're having this coordinated mass delusion which I think gives us more weight that there is a God behind this mass delusion but we hear Him and you don't.

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

I remember doing something I could get suspended for in a secular high school during lunch time. The teacher made me throw my lunch out. I spoke the word of God to Him, he had fear on his face, his conscience was bothering him and said that no one spoke to him like this before and he let me out of a suspension. It was the Holy Spirit, Hollie.
I wish I spoke to him before he made me throw my lunch out.

If you hear gods voice that's fine. Other people embracing other religions will claim to hear (have heard), other gods.

Who's right (if anyone), and who's wrong?

I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.
 
There have been plenty of scientific studies that explains our peripheral vision when someone is staring at us, but no science study has been able to explain that feeling when someone stares at you from behind when you don't see them.

It is the same energy feeling when you connect with God.
 
If you hear gods voice that's fine. Other people embracing other religions will claim to hear (have heard), other gods.

Who's right (if anyone), and who's wrong?

I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

Except there was a study of women in an MRI machine speaking in tongues and there was no brain activity which proves scripture that it isn't man but God that speaketh. Mental illness would have shown up as brain activity. I think I've shared the study from a major university. I'll ask someone else to post it.


1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
 
There have been plenty of scientific studies that explains our peripheral vision when someone is staring at us, but no science study has been able to explain that feeling when someone stares at you from behind when you don't see them.

It is the same energy feeling when you connect with God.

Well yeah, I can understand that our peripheral vision still picks up cues such as movement, posture, position, etc.

Although, those same cues and energy feeling that people then have with gods other than the Christian god presents an apparent dilemma.
 
Hence, things are the way they are because God wants them precisely this way, and any claim that God didn't set out to create Satan on purpose is disproved. And this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

Hollie, you have a most impressive mind indeed. This does not address your post precisely but I think it sheds light on some of the overall thinking. I do not know what evil is or if there is a "Satan". Although advised otherwise I have sought to understand evil once or twice or so in the past. There was an individual I was researching once and followed his mind down into a place very dark. I went so far that I reach a point where I saw no light. I was yanked back as when the shroud lines spring one back when the chute opens after jumping out of a C-17. (Sorry for the analogy if you have never gotten the one half way ticket on a C-17 but that is exactly what it felt like.) One can go only so far into the dark before one loses the light to see with. If one claims to know the mind of God be very, very skeptical. If one claims to know the mind of Satan run like Hell, or rather, run from Hell.

There is Free Will. If one chooses to go towards the light then one will know more of the mind of God. One does not even need to believe in God to go that way. If one goes towards the dark end of the tunnel I don't know what they will find and never want to.
 
There have been plenty of scientific studies that explains our peripheral vision when someone is staring at us, but no science study has been able to explain that feeling when someone stares at you from behind when you don't see them.

It is the same energy feeling when you connect with God.

Well yeah, I can understand that our peripheral vision still picks up cues such as movement, posture, position, etc.

Although, those same cues and energy feeling that people then have with gods other than the Christian god presents an apparent dilemma.

Or it is true and you haven't picked up on that.
 
I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

Except there was a study of women in an MRI machine speaking in tongues and there was no brain activity which proves scripture that it isn't man but God that speaketh. Mental illness would have shown up as brain activity. I think I've shared the study from a major university. I'll ask someone else to post it.


1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

How are you making the connection between someone in an MRI machine (allegedly speaking tongues), and your god?

Here again, we have nothing but "there was a story...." These kinds of stories are so often found on far right, ultra-fundamentalist websites with dubious credibility.
 
There have been plenty of scientific studies that explains our peripheral vision when someone is staring at us, but no science study has been able to explain that feeling when someone stares at you from behind when you don't see them.

It is the same energy feeling when you connect with God.

Well yeah, I can understand that our peripheral vision still picks up cues such as movement, posture, position, etc.

Although, those same cues and energy feeling that people then have with gods other than the Christian god presents an apparent dilemma.

Or it is true and you haven't picked up on that.

Picked up on what? That people in parts of India will have "feelings" they attribute to Vishnu?

Vishnu is the true god. Why is it you haven't picked up on that?
 
Symptoms(mental illness)
By Mayo Clinic Staff


Signs and symptoms of mental illness can vary, depending on the particular disorder, circumstances and other factors. Mental illness symptoms can affect emotions, thoughts and behaviors.

Examples of signs and symptoms include:
•Feeling sad or down
•Confused thinking or reduced ability to concentrate
•Excessive fears or worries, or extreme feelings of guilt
•Extreme mood changes of highs and lows
•Withdrawal from friends and activities
•Significant tiredness, low energy or problems sleeping
•Detachment from reality (delusions), paranoia or hallucinations
•Inability to cope with daily problems or stress
•Trouble understanding and relating to situations and to people
•Alcohol or drug abuse
•Major changes in eating habits
•Sex drive changes
•Excessive anger, hostility or violence
•Suicidal thinking

Mental illness Symptoms - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

This is serious science

It isn't science because there are people with no chemical imbalance with no serious illness who believe in God. You have no biological or pathological test.
You're not a doctor.

A study links life-changing religious experiences, like being “born again,” with atrophy in the hippocampus


Religious Experiences Shrink Part of the Brain - Scientific American
 
My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

Except there was a study of women in an MRI machine speaking in tongues and there was no brain activity which proves scripture that it isn't man but God that speaketh. Mental illness would have shown up as brain activity. I think I've shared the study from a major university. I'll ask someone else to post it.


1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

How are you making the connection between someone in an MRI machine (allegedly speaking tongues), and your god?

Here again, we have nothing but "there was a story...." These kinds of stories are so often found on far right, ultra-fundamentalist websites with dubious credibility.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

If the brain doesn't have electrical activity in an MRI machine like singing or talking then the burden of proof is on you to explain it. It could be God.
 
This is serious science

It isn't science because there are people with no chemical imbalance with no serious illness who believe in God. You have no biological or pathological test.
You're not a doctor.

A study links life-changing religious experiences, like being “born again,” with atrophy in the hippocampus


Religious Experiences Shrink Part of the Brain - Scientific American

Could just be too small of a sample which means it is statistically inaccurate or not representative of everyone.

“The covariates that they mention in the study – specifically age, depression status, and sex – are really missing and I would want to look at that data before I draw any additional conclusions from that,” said Struthers to The Christian Post on Thursday.

“My concern is how this data is utilized, and if it is used as a way to demean people of faith. Is it used as a way to make people feel as if they are stupid? That their brains are smaller because they are born-again Christians or they are born-again Christians because their brains are smaller,” he questioned. “[T]hat is a place that we want to be careful not to go.”

Born-Again Christians Singled Out in Brain Atrophy Study?
 
If you hear gods voice that's fine. Other people embracing other religions will claim to hear (have heard), other gods.

Who's right (if anyone), and who's wrong?

I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”
 
Except there was a study of women in an MRI machine speaking in tongues and there was no brain activity which proves scripture that it isn't man but God that speaketh. Mental illness would have shown up as brain activity. I think I've shared the study from a major university. I'll ask someone else to post it.


1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

How are you making the connection between someone in an MRI machine (allegedly speaking tongues), and your god?

Here again, we have nothing but "there was a story...." These kinds of stories are so often found on far right, ultra-fundamentalist websites with dubious credibility.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

If the brain doesn't have electrical activity in an MRI machine like singing or talking then the burden of proof is on you to explain it. It could be God.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

I have an article refuting your article. Can't you give me some credibility and just trust me?
 
I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”

I'm surprised that there has been no more recent a follow up on this eight year old study.

It seems to me that a logical path to follow would be recording these apparantly involuntary utterances and setting out to decypher meaning or "language" associated to these noises.

My guess is that the "patient" is experiencing something akin to a dream state and in effect "talking in their sleep". ... Except that the mumbling is not organized speach but just random noises which would not show up in the brain scan as mental "work" requiring a change in blood flow.

I think any such investigation woud be more scientific and believable if the people involved were not "looking for god" and simply attempting to discover what these utterances really came from.

Get serious people. There is no god.
 
I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”

From the article:

The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning.

OK. Nothing to connect this with any god. But, OK, if this happens to an American Indian, for one example, are they having some communication with a god/spirit? Is that the "true" god/spirit and you have embraced the wrong god/spirit?
 
My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”

From the article:

The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning.

OK. Nothing to connect this with any god. But, OK, if this happens to an American Indian, for one example, are they having some communication with a god/spirit? Is that the "true" god/spirit and you have embraced the wrong god/spirit?

Good point. How funny would THAT be if they went to the trouble to prove THEIR god and found out the native americans god was the real one.. :lol:
 
Hence, things are the way they are because God wants them precisely this way, and any claim that God didn't set out to create Satan on purpose is disproved. And this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

Hollie, you have a most impressive mind indeed. This does not address your post precisely but I think it sheds light on some of the overall thinking. I do not know what evil is or if there is a "Satan". Although advised otherwise I have sought to understand evil once or twice or so in the past. There was an individual I was researching once and followed his mind down into a place very dark. I went so far that I reach a point where I saw no light. I was yanked back as when the shroud lines spring one back when the chute opens after jumping out of a C-17. (Sorry for the analogy if you have never gotten the one half way ticket on a C-17 but that is exactly what it felt like.) One can go only so far into the dark before one loses the light to see with. If one claims to know the mind of God be very, very skeptical. If one claims to know the mind of Satan run like Hell, or rather, run from Hell.

There is Free Will. If one chooses to go towards the light then one will know more of the mind of God. One does not even need to believe in God to go that way. If one goes towards the dark end of the tunnel I don't know what they will find and never want to.

I was yanked back as when the shroud lines spring one back when the chute opens after jumping out of a C-17. (Sorry for the analogy if you have never gotten the one half way ticket on a C-17 but that is exactly what it felt like.)

Pfffft. That's nothin', RV.

Try getting a wedgie by a couple of drunk sorority sisters on girls night out while wearing a thong. :eusa_hand:


Otherwise, I have an answer to your comments.

The only "condemning aspect" of my life is the Christian based idea that as an imperfect being I deserve Hell by default. I'm fairly honest, I work hard, I love my friends and family, etc.-- in short, I'm your average person who lives a quiet life dealing with life's challenges. I cannot imagine rating eternal torment because I don't acquiesce to the Christian / Judeo - defined salvation program. I ask myself:

"Which is more likely: That there's really this angry god out there who would actually behave that way, or it's really in the religion’s interest to establish a social dynamic where the threat of eternal torment is the outcome for not joining in that religion and, btw, supporting it financially. What's more likely, man needs a savior for being human, or the Church, an entity of sweeping power for more than a thousand years, needs to convince me I need them and only them?"

I think the answer is really obvious and simple. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such a god who would condemn me for such a trivial issue, nor can I do anything about the fact (my term) that after death it's nothing but a dreamless sleep. Both are equally depressing, hopeless, and bleak, and there's a marginal difference between condemning most people who ever existed to an eternity of despair versus everyone being condemned to an eternity of nothingness. It's hopeless because if such a god exists, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment.
 
Of course there was a reason to define "bad". In the context of the tale, there is no definition of good and evil prior to the gods allegedly preparing the so-called “test” for A&E. Yahweh doesn't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of eternal proportions for them and all of humanity that follows. Bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

so when he told them "Don't do that" do you think they had more trouble understanding "don't" or "that"?....

Of course they did. You have the benefit of ritual animal sacrifice.

???....you think Adam and Eve were sacrificed?......was it a blood or burnt offering?....


Of course there was a lie.

what was the lie?
 

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