why not just sit on your butt and pray?

[hortysir]

To keep from wrestling with far too many quote tags, I'm just going to insert my responses in bold blue:

You fundies do recoil when your gods and bibles are questioned for accuracy and consistency.

How strange that I'm a bitch for daring to question those things. What a shame that you feel so threatened by mere questioning as to the accuracy of the bibles.

Why a talking snake in the garden vs... Oh, I don't know, say a talking camel?

Serpents and reptiles have been viewed as evil creatures in many cultures for centuries, so I imagine that's where that imagery originated
If a person is not allowed to question the Bible than no one will ever explore the religion. Hollie is right to ask for explanations. If the answers don't convince her than she knows what is best for her.

Thanks, RandomVariable. At least for me, you've highlighted the most basic and profound element separating faith and science. Faith cannot be used as a tool to access knowledge because it does not require the standards of evidence required by science.. Faith-based assertions carry validity (sic) not because there is any criteria to support the belief structure, but because a group of people deem it so, and by definition, faith asks that one does not question validity. If one is questioning their faith, it is considered that they are also losing their faith, not strengthening it.
I disagree. I am in an almost constant state of questioning. So I read, check concordance, flip back and forth, and (of course) pray.
The questions (of that particular moment) are answered to me.
You may not feel that those answers are real or even provable. But that are very real to me.
Ever feel scared or worried or nervous for no apparent reason? Those feelings are as real to you as the feeling of having a prayer answered is to me......neither of us can prove it, though.

I've been pressing the self-entitled prophet on biblical genesis to test his knowledge on the matter. He has none. He has simply accepted the tale, ignored the irreconciable errors and contradictions and proceeds on as if those errors and contradictions don't exist.



Well, let's look at the source material, why don't we (KJV):

________________________________________
Commentary: God has created the plants (which would include trees) and then creates man. Then he plants the garden and places man there. We on the same page so far?





Let's continue.

________________________________________
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

________________________________________
Commentary: Very clearly here we can see that evil already exists else it cannot be a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man at this point in the narrative has nothing to do with, nor any knowledge of either good or evil. Hence evil must predate Man in order for there to be a choice.

Yes evil existed before God created man



Moving on:

________________________________________
Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

________________________________________






Now we have two questions:

1. Does this serpent lie, deceive, and tempt ("yes" to all three)-- and are any of these behaviors sinful? To answer this, apply them to the model of perfection, God. Can this God...

Lie? No, it would be sinful of God to lie and God by definition is sinless.

Deceive? No, it would be sinful of God to decieve and God by definition is sinless.

Tempt? Well, perhaps towards good, but the context here is towards disobedience and thus would be sinful, and of course it would be sinful of God to tempt and God by definition is sinless.

So we can agree that the behaviors of the serpent are pretty much sinful and none of them could be applied to the perfection of God within the narrative.



Onto our second question:

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "prrof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.



Now, left with choice A or B: I have heard the argument (and it's not a bad one actually): "Well, nowhere does it say God told the serpent he couldn't be evil and it was the disobedience that is the sin, not the act of evil."

To this I would point out that if sin (disobedience) is not evil, then it must be good, and if it is good, it cannot be an act of disobedience, and once again we're in a feedback loop.



But let's even concede this point and see where it leads:

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that hence, God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory. Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it, "the tree", was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose. Hence, free will is an illusion.

Hence, things are the way they are because God wants them precisely this way, and any claim that God didn't set out to create Satan on purpose is disproved. And this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

What you are (conveniently?) omitting is "the serpent's" identity.
His name is Lucifer.
He is a super-ego vain fallen angel that thought he could replace God.
He was cast down to earth.
His mission is to pull as many of God's favorite creation away from Him.

Lucifer's behavior is a direct example of 'free will'. He (and his followers) chose to defy God and lost.
There are consequences for choices.

Paused for supper and got distracted by Survivor, so I apologize if I skipped over something

 

[Hollie]

Of course there was a reason to define "bad". In the context of the tale, there is no definition of good and evil prior to the gods allegedly preparing the so-called “test” for A&E. Yahweh doesn't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of eternal proportions for them and all of humanity that follows. Bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

so when he told them "Don't do that" do you think they had more trouble understanding "don't" or "that"?....

You really have never read the genesis tale.

Genesis 3

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Once again,

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "proof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.

The serpent was ultimately a creation of the god. An omniscient god would have known that A&E would succumb to temptation.

Of course they did. You have the benefit of ritual animal sacrifice.

???....you think Adam and Eve were sacrificed?......was it a blood or burnt offering?....

They were sacrificed so that the gods could bring evil into the world.

The entire tale is so convoluted, why don't you do what so many believers do and make your own interpretation. Hey, it's your delusion, make it fit your wishes.

Of course there was a lie.

what was the lie?

I've written this out for you three times now.

"ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die". they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic.

 

[Chuckt]

If you hear gods voice that's fine. Other people embracing other religions will claim to hear (have heard), other gods.

Who's right (if anyone), and who's wrong?

I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

So if the person is speaking in tongues and if the MRI shows their brain activity isn't causing it and you hear their tongues, aren't you mentally ill for hearing it?

 

[HUGGY]

I don't doubt they are hearing them. I believe them hearing them 100%.
They are called Demons.

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

So if the person is speaking in tongues and if the MRI shows their brain activity isn't causing it and you hear their tongues, aren't you mentally ill for hearing it?

You might be crazy for wasting valuable MRI time when there are REAL diagnosis that need done for patients that have REAL medical issues.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Of course there was a reason to define "bad". In the context of the tale, there is no definition of good and evil prior to the gods allegedly preparing the so-called “test” for A&E. Yahweh doesn't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of eternal proportions for them and all of humanity that follows. Bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

so when he told them "Don't do that" do you think they had more trouble understanding "don't" or "that"?....

You really have never read the genesis tale.

Genesis 3

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Once again,

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "proof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.

The serpent was ultimately a creation of the god. An omniscient god would have known that A&E would succumb to temptation.






They were sacrificed so that the gods could bring evil into the world.

The entire tale is so convoluted, why don't you do what so many believers do and make your own interpretation. Hey, it's your delusion, make it fit your wishes.

Of course there was a lie.

what was the lie?

I've written this out for you three times now.

"ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die". they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic.

is this really difficult for you?.....Adam and Eve weren't sacrificed for me or anyone else.....they were simply disobedient.....God said, don't do it, they did.....the result was that they experienced death.....no lies involved.....they did die....otherwise they would still be here.....

I really don't know why I'm repeating this here, I've already answered your idiotic questions and pointed out your errors......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Except there was a study of women in an MRI machine speaking in tongues and there was no brain activity

oh come on.....hand it to them on a silver platter why don't you.....lol......

Were the women blondes?

I suspect Hollie is......

 

[thebrucebeat]

Of course there was a reason to define "bad". In the context of the tale, there is no definition of good and evil prior to the gods allegedly preparing the so-called “test” for A&E. Yahweh doesn't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of eternal proportions for them and all of humanity that follows. Bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

You really have never read the genesis tale.

Genesis 3

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Once again,

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "proof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.

The serpent was ultimately a creation of the god. An omniscient god would have known that A&E would succumb to temptation.






They were sacrificed so that the gods could bring evil into the world.

The entire tale is so convoluted, why don't you do what so many believers do and make your own interpretation. Hey, it's your delusion, make it fit your wishes.

what was the lie?

I've written this out for you three times now.

"ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die". they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic.

is this really difficult for you?.....Adam and Eve weren't sacrificed for me or anyone else.....they were simply disobedient.....God said, don't do it, they did.....the result was that they experienced death.....no lies involved.....they did die....otherwise they would still be here.....

I really don't know why I'm repeating this here, I've already answered your idiotic questions and pointed out your errors......

Well, we now know we are dealing with a diligent student of scripture.
LOL!

 

[HUGGY]

Next week class we will be discussing whether Superman and Batman were real. Many believe they were. Millions of books, magazines and entries in newspaper funny papers can't be wrong.. OR were they... ???????

 

[Hollie]

Of course there was a reason to define "bad". In the context of the tale, there is no definition of good and evil prior to the gods allegedly preparing the so-called “test” for A&E. Yahweh doesn't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of eternal proportions for them and all of humanity that follows. Bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

You really have never read the genesis tale.

Genesis 3

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Once again,

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "proof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.

The serpent was ultimately a creation of the god. An omniscient god would have known that A&E would succumb to temptation.






They were sacrificed so that the gods could bring evil into the world.

The entire tale is so convoluted, why don't you do what so many believers do and make your own interpretation. Hey, it's your delusion, make it fit your wishes.

what was the lie?

I've written this out for you three times now.

"ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die". they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic.

is this really difficult for you?.....Adam and Eve weren't sacrificed for me or anyone else.....they were simply disobedient.....God said, don't do it, they did.....the result was that they experienced death.....no lies involved.....they did die....otherwise they would still be here.....

I really don't know why I'm repeating this here, I've already answered your idiotic questions and pointed out your errors......

It's really pretty twisted that you re-write the fable and so sweepingly ignore what the fable lays out.

Your gods created a test for A&E that was designed for them to fail. Your gods created the serpent which temped Eve who ate the apple which cursed all of humanity.

That's the problem with you Flat Earth/Young Earth loons, you have an inability to actually understand the fable.

 

[Newby]

oh come on.....hand it to them on a silver platter why don't you.....lol......

Were the women blondes?

I suspect Hollie is......

That's an insult to all blondes!

 

[Chuckt]

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”

From the article:

The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning.

OK. Nothing to connect this with any god. But, OK, if this happens to an American Indian, for one example, are they having some communication with a god/spirit? Is that the "true" god/spirit and you have embraced the wrong god/spirit?

Good point. How funny would THAT be if they went to the trouble to prove THEIR god and found out the native americans god was the real one..

I'm part Native American and my God is the real one. Thank you.

 

[Chuckt]

Hence, things are the way they are because God wants them precisely this way, and any claim that God didn't set out to create Satan on purpose is disproved. And this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by a God. He could have just as easily made it otherwise, he just didn't.

Hollie, you have a most impressive mind indeed. This does not address your post precisely but I think it sheds light on some of the overall thinking. I do not know what evil is or if there is a "Satan". Although advised otherwise I have sought to understand evil once or twice or so in the past. There was an individual I was researching once and followed his mind down into a place very dark. I went so far that I reach a point where I saw no light. I was yanked back as when the shroud lines spring one back when the chute opens after jumping out of a C-17. (Sorry for the analogy if you have never gotten the one half way ticket on a C-17 but that is exactly what it felt like.) One can go only so far into the dark before one loses the light to see with. If one claims to know the mind of God be very, very skeptical. If one claims to know the mind of Satan run like Hell, or rather, run from Hell.

There is Free Will. If one chooses to go towards the light then one will know more of the mind of God. One does not even need to believe in God to go that way. If one goes towards the dark end of the tunnel I don't know what they will find and never want to.

I was yanked back as when the shroud lines spring one back when the chute opens after jumping out of a C-17. (Sorry for the analogy if you have never gotten the one half way ticket on a C-17 but that is exactly what it felt like.)

Pfffft. That's nothin', RV.

Try getting a wedgie by a couple of drunk sorority sisters on girls night out while wearing a thong.


Otherwise, I have an answer to your comments.

The only "condemning aspect" of my life is the Christian based idea that as an imperfect being I deserve Hell by default. I'm fairly honest, I work hard, I love my friends and family, etc.-- in short, I'm your average person who lives a quiet life dealing with life's challenges. I cannot imagine rating eternal torment because I don't acquiesce to the Christian / Judeo - defined salvation program. I ask myself:

"Which is more likely: That there's really this angry god out there who would actually behave that way, or it's really in the religion’s interest to establish a social dynamic where the threat of eternal torment is the outcome for not joining in that religion and, btw, supporting it financially. What's more likely, man needs a savior for being human, or the Church, an entity of sweeping power for more than a thousand years, needs to convince me I need them and only them?"

I think the answer is really obvious and simple. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such a god who would condemn me for such a trivial issue, nor can I do anything about the fact (my term) that after death it's nothing but a dreamless sleep. Both are equally depressing, hopeless, and bleak, and there's a marginal difference between condemning most people who ever existed to an eternity of despair versus everyone being condemned to an eternity of nothingness. It's hopeless because if such a god exists, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment.

But it isn't reality because there are different perspectives.
I would think from my opinion that God looks down here and sees a lot of disgusting people just like I see a lot of things going on.

From other people's point of view, they can't function or accept Heaven because of the problem of evil. They believe if God exists then God would have to be good and because He is good, He couldn't allow evil to exist. But because evil exists, they believe that God couldn't be good or exist at all because if He did then he would eradicate evil. The other problem is that because God is good, He gives us another chance. If God was to get rid of all the evil, He would have to get rid of you and me because I've hurt people, I've made mistakes. When you judge, you can't judge on a curve and say Hitler is the only one who goes to hell and everyone else is safe. Every sin has to be punished or else it isn't justice.

God will one day rid the world of evil and because sin hasn't been dealt with on your behalf, you are at risk.

I can tell you about almost everyone I remember and tell you what their sins were that I remember and I can make a really long list and God is a list maker. There is friction between any two people because we aren't good. The fact is, you can't just walk down the street and marry any two people because the odds of getting married I like getting hit by lightning because we're not perfect enough for any person and when you get married, that person you marry reveals what you are like an only doesn't tell you the truth unless he or she doesn't want to stay married.

It is like Pastor Joe says as an example, "I'm a good person, because when I dealt drugs, I gave everyone a fair count". "I'm a good person, I only sleep with the ones I love" when they are really abusing other people. Goodness is relative but in God's eyes, we're in transgression.

 

[Hollie]

From the article:



OK. Nothing to connect this with any god. But, OK, if this happens to an American Indian, for one example, are they having some communication with a god/spirit? Is that the "true" god/spirit and you have embraced the wrong god/spirit?

Good point. How funny would THAT be if they went to the trouble to prove THEIR god and found out the native americans god was the real one..

I'm part Native American and my God is the real one. Thank you.

Others will make the claim that their gods are the real ones. You always have the option to convert to the "true" gods.

 

[Chuckt]

My opinion? If people are hearing voices, well......

Hearing Voices

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of medical illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Many people hear voices but never find them a problem or need to seek help from mental health services.



Sometimes the voices tell people to do, umm, not so nice things.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]

[MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] has requested that I post this link to a study on speaking in tongues:

Print Version: Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”

From the article:

The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning.

OK. Nothing to connect this with any god. But, OK, if this happens to an American Indian, for one example, are they having some communication with a god/spirit? Is that the "true" god/spirit and you have embraced the wrong god/spirit?

I have personally dismissed this movement up until now and I have taken a wait and see approach because it is a big in house debate and so that I could learn more before making a decision but the study carries some weight for me and then one person on the internet described her experience for me and my mind just went "Huh?" for me because it gave me more information to think about.

 

[Chuckt]

How are you making the connection between someone in an MRI machine (allegedly speaking tongues), and your god?

Here again, we have nothing but "there was a story...." These kinds of stories are so often found on far right, ultra-fundamentalist websites with dubious credibility.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

If the brain doesn't have electrical activity in an MRI machine like singing or talking then the burden of proof is on you to explain it. It could be God.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

I have an article refuting your article. Can't you give me some credibility and just trust me?

I can trust you have an article. Can I trust an article I have not read?

 

[Hollie]

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

If the brain doesn't have electrical activity in an MRI machine like singing or talking then the burden of proof is on you to explain it. It could be God.

So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?
I have the article. Can't you give me some credibility?

I have an article refuting your article. Can't you give me some credibility and just trust me?

I can trust you have an article. Can I trust an article I have not read?

As you wrote earlier: "So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?"

 

[PostmodernProph]

You really have never read the genesis tale.

Genesis 3

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Once again,

Exactly who (or what) is this serpent? It can only be one of three things:

A. An actual flesh and blood serpent
B. Satan
C. God

If it is A., and if it sins (and it does) then sin has been introduced into the world by a flesh and blood creation of god, and man has not brought it into the world.

If it is B. and if Satan sins, then once again evil has been brought into the world by an agent other than Man (although not of flesh and blood)

If it is C. (and actually, as the Author of Everything then Everything is ultimately of God) then we have a very deep problem, and a nature that totally self-destructs as God is both perfect and imperfect at the same time (this is the core "proof" of God not existing that leads to an atheistic conclusion-- for all those endless demands that atheists prove that a nothing doesn't not exist, it is only this-- that God is a senseless mass of contradictary nonsense that can establish any sort of "proof". A senseless mass of contradictory nonsense is indistinguishable from "nothingness"). For arguments sake, let's not head down C at all since in question 1 we have eliminated God being able to sin.

The serpent was ultimately a creation of the god. An omniscient god would have known that A&E would succumb to temptation.






They were sacrificed so that the gods could bring evil into the world.

The entire tale is so convoluted, why don't you do what so many believers do and make your own interpretation. Hey, it's your delusion, make it fit your wishes.





I've written this out for you three times now.

"ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die". they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic.

is this really difficult for you?.....Adam and Eve weren't sacrificed for me or anyone else.....they were simply disobedient.....God said, don't do it, they did.....the result was that they experienced death.....no lies involved.....they did die....otherwise they would still be here.....

I really don't know why I'm repeating this here, I've already answered your idiotic questions and pointed out your errors......

It's really pretty twisted that you re-write the fable and so sweepingly ignore what the fable lays out.

Your gods created a test for A&E that was designed for them to fail. Your gods created the serpent which temped Eve who ate the apple which cursed all of humanity.

That's the problem with you Flat Earth/Young Earth loons, you have an inability to actually understand the fable.

I'm sorry, Hollie.....I've done all any human should be called upon to do to explain it to you.....but when faced with having to repeat myself to counter your ignorance more than twice, I no longer waste time with it......if you're not capable of recognizing that we are dealing with an act freely made, instead of some "evil" that sits like a block of ice and melts down on people forcing them to do things they don't really want to do, then there isn't much hope of having an intelligent discussion with you.......

 

[Chuckt]

I have an article refuting your article. Can't you give me some credibility and just trust me?

I can trust you have an article. Can I trust an article I have not read?

As you wrote earlier: "So in other words, if someone doesn't post the evidence, it cannot be real?"

It can be real. I didn't say it wasn't real.

 

[Hollie]

is this really difficult for you?.....Adam and Eve weren't sacrificed for me or anyone else.....they were simply disobedient.....God said, don't do it, they did.....the result was that they experienced death.....no lies involved.....they did die....otherwise they would still be here.....

I really don't know why I'm repeating this here, I've already answered your idiotic questions and pointed out your errors......

It's really pretty twisted that you re-write the fable and so sweepingly ignore what the fable lays out.

Your gods created a test for A&E that was designed for them to fail. Your gods created the serpent which temped Eve who ate the apple which cursed all of humanity.

That's the problem with you Flat Earth/Young Earth loons, you have an inability to actually understand the fable.

I'm sorry, Hollie.....I've done all any human should be called upon to do to explain it to you.....but when faced with having to repeat myself to counter your ignorance more than twice, I no longer waste time with it......if you're not capable of recognizing that we are dealing with an act freely made, instead of some "evil" that sits like a block of ice and melts down on people forcing them to do things they don't really want to do, then there isn't much hope of having an intelligent discussion with you.......

Well, yeah. I didn't expext you would be able to defend your argument from ignorance.

As to having to repeat yourself, I can understand that you're unable to accept the contradictions of a god who lies and an evil serpent which tells the truth. After three separate instances of providing you the text from genesis, you blindly ignore the actual text in favor of what you instead want the text to present.

Attitudes such as yours run hand in hand with the fundamentalist christian attempt to fossilize itself by declaring your ignorance of your ideology and promoting that ignorance as though you're its final authority.

 

[PostmodernProph]

well, as long as we're all clear that your claims God lied are idiotic, its all good...