Zone1 Why Jews shall either convert to Christianity or reject Talmud?

[Meriweather]

Jews are the scapegoat to everything that has gone wrong in Christianity

Do you see the irony in this? You are blaming all Christians for what some have done to some Jews.

 

[Lisa558]

People do so little study and research...so little time in our busy lives. Here is what some miss. Jesus' words were, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus way was the way of Judaism. The truth he spoke, also of Judaism. The life he lived...again Judaism with possibly the addition of that tremendous tenacity in following the will of God. That does not suggest that other Jews do/did not follow the will of God--they do--but maybe not to the point they give up everything else in that devotion. Jesus lived his life differently in order to accomplish what God wanted of him.

Those who were not those called the Lost Sheep of Israel were already following the way, the truth, and the life of Judaism, and Jesus noted he was not there for these, but for those who had lost their way.

Jesus may not be there for you, but he certainly has been for me, but then I am one of the lost, and will be forever grateful for his guidance.

Here’s the thing: IF Jesus said those words, which is not something a Jew would say, he didn’t mean belief in him as a deity. He meant following Jewish values.

 

[Lisa558]

People do so little study and research...so little time in our busy lives. Here is what some miss. Jesus' words were, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus way was the way of Judaism. The truth he spoke, also of Judaism. The life he lived...again Judaism with possibly the addition of that tremendous tenacity in following the will of God. That does not suggest that other Jews do/did not follow the will of God--they do--but maybe not to the point they give up everything else in that devotion. Jesus lived his life differently in order to accomplish what God wanted of him.

Those who were not those called the Lost Sheep of Israel were already following the way, the truth, and the life of Judaism, and Jesus noted he was not there for these, but for those who had lost their way.

Jesus may not be there for you, but he certainly has been for me, but then I am one of the lost, and will be forever grateful for his guidance.

And P.S. Gd is there for me.

 

[Sixties Fan]

People do so little study and research...so little time in our busy lives. Here is what some miss. Jesus' words were, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus way was the way of Judaism. The truth he spoke, also of Judaism. The life he lived...again Judaism with possibly the addition of that tremendous tenacity in following the will of God. That does not suggest that other Jews do/did not follow the will of God--they do--but maybe not to the point they give up everything else in that devotion. Jesus lived his life differently in order to accomplish what God wanted of him.

Those who were not those called the Lost Sheep of Israel were already following the way, the truth, and the life of Judaism, and Jesus noted he was not there for these, but for those who had lost their way.

Jesus may not be there for you, but he certainly has been for me, but then I am one of the lost, and will be forever grateful for his guidance.

All Christian writings. Not Jesus. He never wrote a word of it, or had anyone who actually lived during that time actually write any of it.

There are no "lost sheep of Israel" and non Jews have no business with any of Jewish history or ideas to take it as theirs and then attack Jews endlessly for just being human like anyone else.

Not taking what the concept of Jesus does for you.
It helped you good.

Jesus was not there to start a new religion which would eventually attempt to kill all of his people. And his saying were definitely not for non Jews. When was Judaism ever forced or gone around to convert people to the Jewish way? So, why would Jesus mean it for all people, for Paul to go out into the world and tell the people about Jesus?


Never, never, never.

Hold on to your beliefs. Let them help you in your life.

But to tell anyone that Jesus is some kind of Messiah who someday will return and all will convert to Christianity, at least all Jews....as Baron wants to believe..........


Jesus was not for that.

Belief and doing good in the world is one thing. Trying to force others into one's belief, as Christianity and Islam are doing to this day..........

 

[Meriweather]

You do not know that. There is no way for you to know who wrote it. And to say that it came from the actual John, a Jew, who would have never approved it........think about it.

I have studied it, researched it, read through many scholarly commentaries. Because it has interested me so much, I am willing to bet I have spent more than ten times (probably more like a hundred times) more on this subject than you. So yes...I have thought about it. Quite a lot.

 

[Meriweather]

That is a Christian reading based on what Paul and others wrote. Nothing else. There is no actual writing from the time Jesus lived by anyone who was actually there, who met him, who interviewed, spoke or heard him speak.

It is all from the time of Paul, decades after Jesus died. Not one witness to what happened then wrote anything, put any thought down or had conversations with others on what they thought about it, which could then be told to others.

I take it you read a paper that you took to heart?

 

[Meriweather]

But a Messiah doesn’t “rule the people.”

Precisely. When it comes to Jesus. The Jewish Messiah is to be a ruler like David, but even better.

 

[Meriweather]

Here’s the thing: IF Jesus said those words, which is not something a Jew would say, he didn’t mean belief in him as a deity. He meant following Jewish values.

Quite likely. It is hard to truly connect with his time and all that was going on. But for me, today, following the way, the truth, the life that he taught through forgiveness, through the Beatitudes, through obedience and so on, slam-dunked me (again so-to-speak) directly into the arms of God.

 

[Meriweather]

And P.S. Gd is there for me.

I have never doubted that.

 

[Meriweather]

Messiah who someday will return and all will convert to Christianity

That's the first I have heard of that. I believe God reaches out to all, wherever we are, and draws us closer to Him. As far as I know (and as best I an guess) He would probably call it converting all to Kingdom living.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Are you sure you know Greek/Roman mythology? Demigods do not return to life.

Jesus is not a demigod.

Right. Which is why Jesus also cannot return to life.

A god and a female human make a demigod. That is Pagan belief in many of the cultures around Israel and in Europe.

That is what Paul created. A demigod.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Do you see the irony in this? You are blaming all Christians for what some have done to some Jews.

I have from my first post blamed the Christian mentality created by Paul who accused the Jews of killing Jesus and keeping the whole world from being saved.

THAT is what causes too many Christians to behave as they have and do to Jews what people would never had done had it not been for the writings of Paul.

Some Jews? Try Millions, and not just 6 during the Holocaust who died because of Christian beliefs of the Jews being evil.

Count those who were attacked, injured, forced into conversions, raped, decapitated, expelled, tortured.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I take it you read a paper that you took to heart?

[You wish to believe that the Apostles wrote it. We do not even know if they could write and read]

New Testament: Who Wrote the Gospels?​

Just as the Old Testament chronicles the story of the Israelites in the millennium or so leading up to the birth of Jesus Christ, the New Testament records Jesus’s life, from his birth and teachings to his death and later resurrection, a narrative that forms the fundamental basis of Christianity. Beginning around 70 A.D., about four decades after Jesus’s crucifixion (according to the Bible), four anonymously written chronicles of his life emerged that would become central documents in the Christian faith. Named for Jesus’s most devoted earthly disciples, or apostles—Matthew, Mark, Luke and John—the four canonical Gospels were traditionally thought to be eyewitness accounts of Jesus’s life, death and resurrection.


But for more than a century, scholars have generally agreed that the Gospels, like many of the books of the New Testament, were not actually written by the people to whom they are attributed. In fact, it seems clear that the stories that form the basis of Christianity were first communicated orally, and passed down from generation to generation, before they were collected and written down.

“Names are attached to the titles of the Gospels (‘the Gospel according to Matthew’),” writes Bible scholar Bart Ehrman in his book Jesus, Interrupted. “But these titles are later additions to the Gospels, provided by editors and scribes to inform readers who the editors thought were the authorities behind the different versions.”

Traditionally, 13 of the 27 books of the New Testament were attributed to Paul the Apostle, who famously converted to Christianity after meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus and wrote a series of letters that helped spread the faith throughout the Mediterranean world. But scholars now agree on the authenticity of only seven of Paul’s epistles: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon. These are believed to have been written between A.D. 50-60, making them the earliest known evidence for Christianity. Authors of the later epistles may have been followers of Paul, who used his name to lend authenticity to the works.

By the 4th century A.D., Christianity had been established as the dominant religion in the Western world, and the New and Old Testaments as its most sacred texts. In the centuries to come, the Bible would only become more central to the lives and faiths of millions of people around the world, despite the mystery surrounding its origins and the ongoing, complex debate over its authorship.

Who Wrote the Bible? | HISTORY

Scholars have investigated the issue for centuries, but many questions persist.

www.history.com

 

[Meriweather]

That is what Paul created. A demigod.

Where did you come up with this? Really odd and out of left field. No one believes it, so why are you depicting it. It is like a child pretending a mud pie is a chocolate pie.

 

[Meriweather]

I have from my first post blamed the Christian mentality created by Paul

And you are so wrong about both I can barely follow you. It is never a good approach to tell others what they "really" believe. Best to tell about one's own faith/religion.

 

[Meriweather]

You wish to believe that the Apostles wrote it

No, it is not a matter of wishing, but of years of study and research. By the way, I never read cut and pastes, and I never said 'Apostles' wrote all. As I suspected, you are content with finding some article, when I have gone past such articles years ago into studies that have a great more depth. Seriously, history.com? I suggest primary sources.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Where did you come up with this? Really odd and out of left field. No one believes it, so why are you depicting it. It is like a child pretending a mud pie is a chocolate pie.

Your beliefs do not allow you to understand what Paul did, and where he got the idea of a female Jew giving birth by a god or spirit, call it what one will.

Still, it is not Judaism, never was, never will be.

 

[Sixties Fan]

And you are so wrong about both I can barely follow you. It is never a good approach to tell others what they "really" believe. Best to tell about one's own faith/religion.

Paul did not write all those letters to his followers? Did not all of his followers become the followers of what he wrote about Jesus, ressurection and salvation? Did they not become the first Christians?

Either you do know what Paul wrote, by reading his letters, or you do not know what he wrote at all, believing that it all actually comes from Jesus and the Apostles as you have said in previous posts.

 

[Sixties Fan]

No, it is not a matter of wishing, but of years of study and research. By the way, I never read cut and pastes, and I never said 'Apostles' wrote all. As I suspected, you are content with finding some article, when I have gone past such articles years ago into studies that have a great more depth. Seriously, history.com? I suggest primary sources.

You seriously do not care, which is understandable.

Believe what you will. It will not change what actually was.

 

[Meriweather]

Still, it is not Judaism, never was, never will be.

Never said it was. I said Christianity has its roots in Judaism--and it does.

Your beliefs do not allow you to understand what Paul did, and where he got the idea of a female Jew giving birth by a god or spirit, call it what one will.

Once again, you have Paul all wrong. You know so little about him that you do not even know that he never--not once--mentioned Mary or Jesus' birth.