Zone1 Why Jews shall either convert to Christianity or reject Talmud?

[Sixties Fan]

It is not a pagan concept that a woman becomes pregnant by a spirit.

Christians say Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and both Jews and pagans disagree this is how it happened.

If it is not a pagan concept where does it come from?
And it is not a spirit, it is god, as in the Pagan gods, where Zeus and others beget children all the time.

Call any god a Holy Spirit, it is the same thing. A non human.


There is NO such thing is Judaism.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I really do know and do care about the concept of Messiah in Judaism. I reiterate what Jesus said two thousand years ago: Jesus is not that Messiah. Period.

Paul and others said that he said that. Paul never met him. And as soon as a Jew dies and does not fulfill the idea of the Messiah, to liberate his people and his land, and dies not achieving it.........makes them all a Non Messiah.

The Messiah actually does succeed in liberating the Jews and their land, as with the Persian who defeated the Babylonians and allowed the Jews to return to their land and rebuild their Temple.

Or the Maccabees, who defeated the Greek and the Persians and freed their people and land for about 100 years before the Romans.


Those were Messiah.

Bar Kochba nearly became a Messiah, but was not able to keep his people and his land free from the Romans and died not achieving it.


That.. is the meaning of the Messiah in Judaism.

 

[Lisa558]

I really do know and do care about the concept of Messiah in Judaism. I reiterate what Jesus said two thousand years ago: Jesus is not that Messiah. Period.

Why won’t you tell me where in Israel Jesus was living when he was three? Or ten? Or his teen years, for that matter. What was his schooling like? Did his parents treat him like a regular child?

 

[Lisa558]

Paul and others said that he said that. Paul never met him. And as soon as a Jew dies and does not fulfill the idea of the Messiah, to liberate his people and his land, and dies not achieving it.........makes them all a Non Messiah.

The Messiah actually does succeed in liberating the Jews and their land, as with the Persian who defeated the Babylonians and allowed the Jews to return to their land and rebuild their Temple.

Or the Maccabees, who defeated the Greek and the Persians and freed their people and land for about 100 years before the Romans.


Those were Messiah.

Bar Kochba nearly became a Messiah, but was not able to keep his people and his land free from the Romans and died not achieving it.


That.. is the meaning of the Messiah in Judaism.

Paul was the troublemaker. It was never Jesus’ intent to start a Jew religion.

 

[Meriweather]

Nice Christian fairytale where Christians can commit sins and crimes and consider themselves "forgiven" because Jesus died for them.

Some minority Christian denominations believe this, but not the major ones. Jesus declared, "Sins are forgiven" years before he laid down his life. Jesus taught 'Repentance' (turning away from sin to obedience to God) for the forgiveness of sin. This obedience to the will of God opens us to the power of God's grace which in turn empowers us to do God's will which in turn sanctifies/purifies the soul.

NOT, a Jewish concept, therefore Jesus could never haver believed in that.

Jesus heartily believed sins are forgiven. He believed, totally, that we should discern the will of God and follow it. Christians believe the same today.

 

[Meriweather]

You only know what Paul and other Christians have written. You really know nothing of what life and thinking was like in the 1st Century.

Actually, I do. Years ago, a Jew, whose first language was Hebrew, took me under his wing. I've done further research and study since then.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Paul was the troublemaker. It was never Jesus’ intent to start a Jew religion.

There were different sects, groups of Jews, with different beliefs. Jesus's one seemed to believe that he would return, resurrect .

It never happened. Not possible for any human to do so.

 

[Lisa558]

There were different sects, groups of Jews, with different beliefs. Jesus's one seemed to believe that he would return, resurrect .

It never happened. Not possible for any human to do so.

Of course.

 

[Meriweather]

Pogroms, Inquisition, Holocaust, more pogroms.

Dig deeper into all of these.

 

[Meriweather]

When you say ”Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit,” please be aware that this is the Christian belief and not a proven fact.

Absolutely. It is our belief. It is a matter of faith.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Some minority Christian denominations believe this, but not the major ones. Jesus declared, "Sins are forgiven" years before he laid down his life. Jesus taught 'Repentance' (turning away from sin to obedience to God) for the forgiveness of sin. This obedience to the will of God opens us to the power of God's grace which in turn empowers us to do God's will which in turn sanctifies/purifies the soul.


Jesus heartily believed sins are forgiven. He believed, totally, that we should discern the will of God and follow it. Christians believe the same today.

Judaism is about owning up to one's own responsibilities.

You continue to repeat Christian teachings and nothing else.

Judaism has Yom Kippur. It is the day of atonement, of forgiving one self and others. It was around during Jesus' time, so no need for Jesus to come up with some new idea when the idea already existed in Judaism.

Christians are not following Jesus. He is not a god, either to be followed or be prayed to.


Just look at the Vatican, and all extreme groups of Christianity which do nothing but be against Jews.

Again, Pogroms, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, are all examples that Christians have never followed the words of Jesus but the attacks of Paul on the Jews, accusing them of killing Jesus and keeping the world from being saved.


That is what Christianity is. An endless pursuit for salvation, for Jesus to return in person and save the world. And as long as he does not return, as he cannot, Jews will continue to be attacked.

 

[Meriweather]

Please tell me what Jesus was doing when he was about three years old, and where in Israel he was living. Also, did he remain in that area for his entire childhood, or did the family relocate when Jesus was around 10?

Matthew has Jesus and his family living in Egypt when Jesus was quite young. He was most likely back in Israel (Galilee) by the time he was ten.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Dig deeper into all of these.

By all means, accuse Jews of being responsible for them.

THEY sinned, so others decided to kill them to get rid of the sin. Or because Jesus was not coming fast enough and it was all the Jews' fault.

Dig deeper into the hatred taught by Christianity towards all Jews.

 

[Meriweather]

We are talking about the G-D of the Jews, of Abraham. Of course he is holy, BUT he does not go around begetting children the way Zeus and all other Pagan gods did.

And Jesus is also NOT a god.

I understand these are strong Jewish beliefs.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Absolutely. It is our belief. It is a matter of faith.

Not much of a faith, which depends on accusing Jesus' people of killing him and keeping the world from being saved.

 

[Meriweather]

If it is not a pagan concept where does it come from?

Christians.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I understand these are strong Jewish beliefs.

Not beliefs but facts, that your beliefs cannot deal with.

 

[Meriweather]

That.. is the meaning of the Messiah in Judaism.

Yes. I know.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Christians.

The Holy Spirit is god. The god of the Jews is the G-D of Abraham.

He does not beget ANY child with ANY Jewish woman.

There is no such thing in Judaism, and it is Judaism that we are dealing with here as far as Jesus is concerned.

He would never accept the Christian beliefs or concepts had be lived, any more than he accepted the Pagan ones.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yes. I know.

Then, by dying, Jesus showed that he was not the Messiah. He did not need to say it to anyone, he had to either succeed in liberating his people or not.

And that is something you do not get.