Zone1 Why Jews shall either convert to Christianity or reject Talmud?

[Meriweather]

Why won’t you tell me where in Israel Jesus was living when he was three? Or ten? Or his teen years, for that matter. What was his schooling like? Did his parents treat him like a regular child?

We know very little of Jesus' childhood. I cannot tell you what is not known. Now, I could go into a couple of theories, but those are time consuming and I doubt few (even Christians) would like me to start in with the suppositions.

 

[Meriweather]

Paul was the troublemaker.

Again, I would need specifics to respond.

 

[Meriweather]

There were different sects, groups of Jews, with different beliefs. Jesus's one seemed to believe that he would return, resurrect .

Jesus' followers witnessed his return after the resurrection. Some witnessed his ascension into heaven. They expected him to return again in their own lifetime, but Jesus has not yet returned.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Jesus' followers witnessed his return after the resurrection. Some witnessed his ascension into heaven. They expected him to return again in their own lifetime, but Jesus has not yet returned.

Maybe.

But that is Paul and those others after he died. Those who never met Jesus and wrote all of these stories based on predictions from the Hebrew Scriptures.

Ascension to Heaven, a real one, by Jews? Why not Moses, David, Solomon, Abraham, any of the Patriarchs?
Why? Because it is not an actual Jewish belief. Much less a possibility.

Jacob fought with an angel. etc, etc, etc.

Nope. Not in Judaism anywhere.

To believe in resurrection is one thing, but for it to actually happen when a human dies........super miracle.

The actual Apostles never wrote any of those books, gospels.

Ascension to Heaven. Just like the Muslims copied Mohammad's ascension to Heaven after copying everything from Jewish and Christian sources.

 

[Meriweather]

Judaism is about owning up to one's own responsibilities.

So is Christianity, or at least the major denominations.

 

[Lisa558]

Absolutely. It is our belief. It is a matter of faith.

I’m glad to hear you say that. In virtually all my debates with Christians, they all state it as if it is fact - which is an obnoxious, rude thing to say to a Jew. If they said “I believe” or “I have faith that….” I would take no issue.

The problem always comes about when Christians tell me “the only way you will get to Heaven is through Jesus” - as if I haven’t heard THAT before. And I find that no matter how politely I say, “well, I know that’s your belief but Jews believe differently,” I get smacked back with some version of “Jews are wrong, and I’ll tell you why.” Who asked them?

Really, Jews just want to be left alone to observe OUR faith. You’ve been one of the nicest Christians on this forum, but lots of them have been just horrid.

 

[Meriweather]

That is what Christianity is

Not hardly

 

[Sixties Fan]

Jesus' followers witnessed his return after the resurrection. Some witnessed his ascension into heaven. They expected him to return again in their own lifetime, but Jesus has not yet returned.

Believe it all you like. It does not take 2000 years, if not forever for a demigod to return to life. Not that any other, including Hercules, has ever done it before him.

 

[Meriweather]

By all means, accuse Jews of being responsible for them.

Do you hear my eyes rolling?

I meant, whenever Jews were under attack, there were Christians who did try to defend them. Or, to the last one, has every Christian you have met been evil personified?

 

[Sixties Fan]

So is Christianity, or at least the major denominations.

In general, where it comes to others, it is not.

Jews are the scapegoat to everything that has gone wrong in Christianity, from Jesus not returning, to the plague, to tragedies, to earthquakes, to floods, to someone dying.

No, that is not taking responsibility.

Again, Christianity is the "Blame everything on the Jews, because they killed Jesus and kept the world from being saved"

It makes too many Christians who believe all of it feel it is their right, if they are upset for any reason, to attack the Jews, steal from them, spit on them, rape them, expel them, forcefully convert them, and even kill them.


When do they ever feel responsible for committing any of these crimes?


NEVER

 

[Lisa558]

Do you hear my eyes rolling?

I meant, whenever Jews were under attack, there were Christians who did try to defend them. Or, to the last one, has every Christian you have met been evil personified?

Yes, and during the Holocaust, they were known as Righteous Gentiles.

But that does not negate the fact that the majority of Christians, if not actually participating in the slaughter, either turned Jews in or ignored the genocide altogether.

And that’s just one horrific time in Jews’ history. My people have been persecuted, expelled, murdered for millenia.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Do you hear my eyes rolling?

I meant, whenever Jews were under attack, there were Christians who did try to defend them. Or, to the last one, has every Christian you have met been evil personified?

I am not speaking of good people who are good if they were born in any group. Or Muslims for that matter. There are also Jews who became ex Jews and committed bad things against Judaism and Jews like Paul and Pablo Christian.

I am talking about Christianity, in general, which approves cruelty towards the Jews.

All of the attacks on Jews since Rome fell have not been accidents. Any more than the attacks on Jews by Muslims who follow in the same superiority, and blaming the Jews for not having believed or converted to Christianity or Islam.

 

[Meriweather]

Then, by dying, Jesus showed that he was not the Messiah. He did not need to say it to anyone, he had to either succeed in liberating his people or not.

And that is something you do not get.

What you cannot see to get is that I do get it.

Jesus was focused on what God called him to do--and his obedience to God could not be shaken, not even when it meant death on a cross. One of his earliest temptations was to be the Messiah who would rule the people. He overcame that before he ever started on his own mission.

 

[Meriweather]

The actual Apostles never wrote any of those books, gospels.

You keep saying that but it does not change the fact that the Gospel of John did come from the Apostle. He may not have been the one who wrote it in Greek, but it was his story.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You keep saying that but it does not change the fact that the Gospel of John did come from the Apostle. He may not have been the one who wrote it in Greek, but it was his story.

You do not know that. There is no way for you to know who wrote it. And to say that it came from the actual John, a Jew, who would have never approved it........think about it.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem always comes about when Christians tell me “the only way you will get to Heaven is through Jesus”

People do so little study and research...so little time in our busy lives. Here is what some miss. Jesus' words were, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus way was the way of Judaism. The truth he spoke, also of Judaism. The life he lived...again Judaism with possibly the addition of that tremendous tenacity in following the will of God. That does not suggest that other Jews do/did not follow the will of God--they do--but maybe not to the point they give up everything else in that devotion. Jesus lived his life differently in order to accomplish what God wanted of him.

Those who were not those called the Lost Sheep of Israel were already following the way, the truth, and the life of Judaism, and Jesus noted he was not there for these, but for those who had lost their way.

Jesus may not be there for you, but he certainly has been for me, but then I am one of the lost, and will be forever grateful for his guidance.

 

[Sixties Fan]

What you cannot see to get is that I do get it.

Jesus was focused on what God called him to do--and his obedience to God could not be shaken, not even when it meant death on a cross. One of his earliest temptations was to be the Messiah who would rule the people. He overcame that before he ever started on his own mission.

That is a Christian reading based on what Paul and others wrote. Nothing else. There is no actual writing from the time Jesus lived by anyone who was actually there, who met him, who interviewed, spoke or heard him speak.

It is all from the time of Paul, decades after Jesus died. Not one witness to what happened then wrote anything, put any thought down or had conversations with others on what they thought about it, which could then be told to others.

 

[Meriweather]

Really, Jews just want to be left alone to observe OUR faith. You’ve been one of the nicest Christians on this forum, but lots of them have been just horrid.

My assessment? Those who may come across as horrid are still learning about the Christian faith. Some find a verse or two to which they can relate, and stop there. Those who truly know Christianity follow the roots straight back to Judaism. Those of us who do find our 'older brother' (so-to-speak) the one the to whom the Father said, "Everything I have is yours..."

 

[Meriweather]

Believe it all you like. It does not take 2000 years, if not forever for a demigod to return to life. Not that any other, including Hercules, has ever done it before him.

Are you sure you know Greek/Roman mythology? Demigods do not return to life.

Jesus is not a demigod.

 

[Lisa558]

What you cannot see to get is that I do get it.

Jesus was focused on what God called him to do--and his obedience to God could not be shaken, not even when it meant death on a cross. One of his earliest temptations was to be the Messiah who would rule the people. He overcame that before he ever started on his own mission.

But a Messiah doesn’t “rule the people.”