Why is it the Global Warming Zealots wont admit that they were wrong? Sociopaths never admit they are wrong.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This thread shows why you don't turn to uneducated dipshits on a message board for information on complicated scientific topics.

The pile of denier stupidity in this thread can be seen and smelled from space.

 

[Old Rocks]

Alang writes,



Trump is the one reducing the government power and control over the climate change propaganda train.

Yes they have changed as the IPCC recently dumped the RCP 8.5 and 7.0 scenarios from the CHMIP modeling set up which real scientists has said from day one are impossible and junk science.



Too bad that your ignorance of bad economics is hurting you as electric prices have soared and line instability has increased and built largely because of overly generous tax breaks and subsidies all that came from tax payers.

Warren Buffet got over 6 billion tax money returns for building them but he said that is the ONLY reason why he was building them was for the free tax money as they are actually impractical for power production.



Misleading since it is China that exploded upward along with India, while America has been dropping for the last 15 years.

China LINK

India LINK

America LINK

Ah yes, let us reduce those subsidies for the fossil fuel thieving corporations. And America is still #2 in emissions. Meanwhile, China, trying to provide power for 1.4 billion people is still the leading producer of GHG's. But they also lead in installing renewables. To the point that they install more wind and solar than the rest of the world put together. And now they make most of the EV's in the world. Many of them are world class autos, and some just now being produced have ranges well over 500 miles. Dumb **** Trump is giving them the technological and manufacturing leadership of the world. The MAGAt disdain and hate of science and scientists is having very negative results for our nation.

 

[EMH]

Liar

View attachment 1262086

That data was FUDGED in 2005.

This is NBC reporting the FUDGE job, which is laughable.

Orbit Wobble wouldn't change the satellite readings at all

A "shade issue" if true would require a CONSTANT added or subtracted to all data, leaving a FLAT LINE a FLAT LINE, but somehow the FUDGE job caused an "upward slope."

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL, no you are making a complete fool of yourself here since you didn't bother to look in the link that shows even with changes in temperature and precipitation climate zones will remain the same for a long time.

From Wikipedia you lazily ignored.



There are only FIVE climate zones in existence.

When was the Arctic region NOT a polar region......

When was Equador region NOT a Tropical region.....

When was Antarctica region NOT a polar region.....

When was the Sahara NOT a dry region.....

Surely it becomes obvious when you actually try to think.

Maybe you should try thinking and researching sometime;

1. 
   
   
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   Changing Climatic Zones in the United States​

   Climate zones across the U.S. are shifting due to warming temperatures, altered precipitation patterns, and sea level rise, with the most dramatic changes occurring in the past century and projected to accelerate through the 2090s.
   
   Historical shifts (1931–1960 to 2077–2099)
   High-resolution Köppen–Geiger maps show that many temperate and humid climates are moving northward, while arid and tropical zones are expanding in some regions YouTube. For example, Mediterranean climates (Csa, Csb) in California and parts of the Southwest are projected to become hotter and drier, potentially shifting toward hot semi-arid (BSh) or even hot desert (BWh) zones as rainfall declines Climate Change Knowledge Portal. In contrast, cooler, wetter climates are retreating northward, and some Arctic tundra (ET) is warming toward subarctic (Dfc) conditions Climate Change Knowledge Portal.
   
   Key regional trends
   
   • Southwest & California: Hot-summer Mediterranean climates are becoming hotter and drier, with longer dry seasons and more frequent heatwaves Climate Change Knowledge Portal.
   • Midwest & Great Plains: Humid continental climates (Dfa–Dfb) are shifting northward, while some areas are experiencing more intense summer heat and reduced spring/summer rainfall projects.propublica.org.
   • Southeast & Gulf Coast: Humid subtropical climates (Cfa–Cfb) are warming, with increased humidity and storm intensity, and sea level rise is threatening coastal zones projects.propublica.org.
   • Pacific Northwest: Oceanic climates (Cfb) are milder, but drier conditions are emerging in some inland areas Wikipedia.
   • Alaska & Arctic: Subarctic and polar zones are warming rapidly, with potential for longer growing seasons and ecosystem changes Climate Change Knowledge Portal.
   Drivers of change
   
   • Temperature rise: Global warming is lengthening growing seasons in cooler zones and shortening them in hotter ones.
   • Precipitation shifts: Some regions are seeing more intense rainfall events, while others face prolonged droughts.
   • Sea level rise: Coastal temperate and humid zones are at risk of inundation and saltwater intrusion projects.propublica.org.
   • Extreme events: Increased frequency of wildfires, heatwaves, and heavy precipitation events is altering local climate zones projects.propublica.org.
   Implications
   These shifts affect agriculture, water resources, biodiversity, and human settlement patterns. For example, temperate farming zones may expand northward, while heat-adapted crops and drought-tolerant species will become more common. Coastal communities face relocation pressures, and ecosystems such as forests and wetlands may undergo rapid transformation.
   
   In short, the U.S. is experiencing a northward retreat of humid and temperate climates and an expansion of arid, hot, and polar zones, with the most pronounced changes in the Southwest, Midwest, Southeast, and Arctic regions.
   Read less
   
   YouTube
   U.S. Climate Zones Changing From 1931 to 2099 - YouTube
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8O4LbX3nY8
   
   Climate Change Knowledge Portal
   United States - Country Overview | Climate Change Knowledge Portal
   https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/united-states
   Show All
   

1. 
   
   Vivid Maps
   https://vividmaps.com › united-states-climate-map
   

   How America’s Climate Zones Are Shifting - Vivid Maps​

   Oct 14, 2025 · For this post, I created a series of climate maps showing how these zones have moved across the United States over the past century and how

 

[EMH]

The MAGAt disdain and hate of science and scientists

The "climate scientists" don't practice actual science, they fudge data and lie.

Giving aid and comfort to China and bilking America to the tune of $20 trillion = treason

 

[alang1216]

LOL, no you are making a complete fool of yourself here since you didn't bother to look in the link that shows even with changes in temperature and precipitation climate zones will remain the same for a long time.

From Wikipedia you lazily ignored.



There are only FIVE climate zones in existence.

When was the Arctic region NOT a polar region......

When was Equador region NOT a Tropical region.....

When was Antarctica region NOT a polar region.....

When was the Sahara NOT a dry region.....

Surely it becomes obvious when you actually try to think.

There have always been climate regions but their boundaries are highly variable. BTW, the Sahara was much wetter in the recent past than it is today.

 

[Old Rocks]

That data was FUDGED in 2005.

This is NBC reporting the FUDGE job, which is laughable.

Orbit Wobble wouldn't change the satellite readings at all

A "shade issue" if true would require a CONSTANT added or subtracted to all data, leaving a FLAT LINE a FLAT LINE, but somehow the FUDGE job caused an "upward slope."

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

What your reference actually says. Lordy, perhaps you should take a class in understanding what you are reading;

"Now, according to three new studies published in the journal Science, it turns out those conclusions based on satellite and weather balloon data were based on faulty analyses.


The atmosphere is indeed warming, not cooling as the data previously showed.

While surface thermometers have clearly shown that the Earth's surface is warming, satellite and weather balloon data have actually suggested the opposite, that the atmosphere was cooling.

Scientists were left with two choices: either the atmosphere wasn't warming up, or something was wrong with the data.

"But most people had to conclude, based on the fact that there were both satellite and balloon observations, that it really wasn't warming up," said Steven Sherwood, a geologists at Yale University and lead author of one of the studies.

Oops!
Sherwood examined weather balloons known as radiosondes, which are capable of making direct measurements of atmospheric temperatures.

For the past 40 years, radiosonde temperature data have been collected from around the world twice each day, once during the day and once at night.

But while nighttime radiosonde measurements were consistent with climate models and theories showing a general warming trend, daytime measurements actually showed the atmosphere to be cooling since the 1970's.

Sherwood explains these discrepancies by pointing out that the older radiosonde instruments used in the 1970's were not as well shielded from sunlight as more recent models. What this means as that older radiosondes showed warmer temperature readings during the day because they were warmed by sunlight.

"It's like being outside on a hot day—it feels hotter when you are standing in the direct sun than when you are standing in the shade," Sherwood said.

Nowadays, radiosondes are better insulated against the effects of sunlight, but if analyzed together with the old data—which showed temperatures that were actually warmer than they really were—the overall effect looked like the troposphere was cooling"

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Sunsettommy]

Dumb-de-dumb dumb. I live in Salem, Oregon. In front of my house are two palm trees. I have a producing lime tree by the front door, and a fig bush in the back yard. I lived in Salem for a few years in the late '50's, and remember none of these plants at that time. Here are some facts;



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Dislike

Tropicalization of the Temperate Zone​

Tropicalization is the process by which tropical organisms expand their ranges into temperate ecosystems in response to climate change, particularly warming winter temperatures and reduced extreme cold events UCF College of Sciences+1.

What It Means​

Tropical organisms—native to warm equatorial zones such as rainforests, coral reefs, and deserts—move poleward into previously cooler temperate regions. This shift is driven by:

• Rising minimum winter temperatures that remove a long-standing barrier to cold-intolerant species UCF College of Sciences.
• Declining frequency and intensity of extreme cold events, which previously limited tropical species’ survival USGS.gov+1.
• Changes in ocean currents (e.g., poleward shifts in warm-water currents) that transport tropical marine life into temperate latitudes biologyinsights.com.

Examples​

• Marine: Parrotfish (Calotomus japonicus) in Japan grazing on temperate kelp, causing “isoyake” (algal forest to sea desert) UCF College of Sciences.
• Coastal: Red mangroves (Rhizophora mangle) replacing salt marshes in Florida, Louisiana, and Texas UCF College of Sciences.
• Terrestrial: Tropical fish, reptiles, amphibians, and insects expanding into temperate zones USGS.gov.
• Sea turtles: Nesting farther north (e.g., Delaware) due to warmer nesting grounds UCF College of Sciences.

Ecological Impacts​

• Loss of cold-adapted species: Temperate species may decline or be displaced USGS.gov.
• Trophic shifts: Tropical herbivores can degrade kelp forests, favoring low-biomass algae biologyinsights.com.
• Biodiversity changes: Some areas see increased species richness, but shifts in community composition dominate biologyinsights.com.
• Ecosystem regime shifts: Entire ecosystem structures can change, such as mangrove expansion replacing salt marshes UCF College of Sciences.

Why It Matters​

Tropicalization is a visible sign of climate change’s ecological effects. It can:

• Alter food webs and nutrient cycling.
• Impact fisheries, agriculture, and coastal habitats.
• Reduce resilience if extreme cold events return, causing “cold-stunning” mass mortality UCF College of Sciences+1.

In North America, warming winters are expected to accelerate tropicalization in the 21st century, with significant implications for biodiversity, ecosystem services, and human livelihoods USGS.gov+1.
Read less
https://sciences.ucf.edu/biology/ce...ropicalization-fact-sheet-accessibleFINAL.pdf

Sweeping aside your AI crap is this,

Salem Climate Summary​

Located at an elevation of 1415.2 meters (4643.04 feet) above sea level, Salem has a Mediterranean, warm summer climate (Classification: Csb).

LINK

Now as it was in 1950..

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=483f...24raW5kZXgrZm9yKzE5NTAmZm9ybT1DU0JSQU5E&ntb=1
Climate of Salem, Oregon in 1950 (Köppen Classification)
In the early 1950s, Salem, Oregon would have been classified under the Köppen climate classification as Csb — Warm-summer Mediterranean climate.

Köppen Classification​

• C = Temperate (mesothermal) climate zone — mean annual temperature above 22 °C (71.6 °F) but with cold winters.
• s = Dry summer — the warmest month has average temperatures above 22 °C, but the driest month has less than 30 mm (1.2 in) of precipitation.
• b = Wet winter — the coldest month has average temperatures above 0 °C (32 °F), and precipitation is more evenly distributed than in Csa (warm-summer Mediterranean with dry winter).

Climate Characteristics in Salem, 1950​

• Winters: Cold and wet, with frequent rain and occasional snow. Average January highs were around 48 °F and lows near 36 °F, with December lows often just above freezing Weather Spark.
• Summers: Warm and dry, with August highs near 83 °F and lows around 55 °F Weather Spark.
• Precipitation: Annual totals in Salem are typically 80–90 inches, with the wettest months in winter and spring, and drier summers Wikipedia.
• Seasonality: The warm season runs from late June to early September, with the coldest period from late November to early February Weather Spark.

Why Csb?​

• Salem’s location in the Willamette Valley, east of the Cascade Range, means it receives abundant winter precipitation from Pacific storms, but summers are dry due to the rain shadow effect of the mountains.
• The warmest month (August) averages above 22 °C, but the driest month (July) has less than 30 mm of rain, fitting the s and b subtypes.
• Winters are mild enough to avoid the coldest months in Cfc (humid continental) climates, but cold enough to exclude Cfa (humid subtropical) climates.

Conclusion: In 1950, Salem’s climate would have been Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean), with cold, wet winters and warm, dry summers, consistent with its current Köppen classification Wikipedia+1.

LINK

The climate remains the same 76 years later.

Give it up kid you have been exposed as a liar as usual.

 

[Old Rocks]

The "climate scientists" don't practice actual science, they fudge data and lie.

Giving aid and comfort to China and bilking America to the tune of $20 trillion = treason

Yappity yap yap, and never a valid source backing up your flapyap. It is fools like you that are intent on making this nation a third world country with your constant denigration of science and your embrace of willful ignorance.

 

[Old Rocks]

Sweeping aside your AI crap is this,

Salem Climate Summary​

Located at an elevation of 1415.2 meters (4643.04 feet) above sea level, Salem has a Mediterranean, warm summer climate (Classification: Csb).

LINK

Now as it was in 1950..

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=483f...24raW5kZXgrZm9yKzE5NTAmZm9ybT1DU0JSQU5E&ntb=1
Climate of Salem, Oregon in 1950 (Köppen Classification)
In the early 1950s, Salem, Oregon would have been classified under the Köppen climate classification as Csb — Warm-summer Mediterranean climate.

Köppen Classification​

• C = Temperate (mesothermal) climate zone — mean annual temperature above 22 °C (71.6 °F) but with cold winters.
• s = Dry summer — the warmest month has average temperatures above 22 °C, but the driest month has less than 30 mm (1.2 in) of precipitation.
• b = Wet winter — the coldest month has average temperatures above 0 °C (32 °F), and precipitation is more evenly distributed than in Csa (warm-summer Mediterranean with dry winter).

Climate Characteristics in Salem, 1950​

• Winters: Cold and wet, with frequent rain and occasional snow. Average January highs were around 48 °F and lows near 36 °F, with December lows often just above freezing Weather Spark.
• Summers: Warm and dry, with August highs near 83 °F and lows around 55 °F Weather Spark.
• Precipitation: Annual totals in Salem are typically 80–90 inches, with the wettest months in winter and spring, and drier summers Wikipedia.
• Seasonality: The warm season runs from late June to early September, with the coldest period from late November to early February Weather Spark.

Why Csb?​

• Salem’s location in the Willamette Valley, east of the Cascade Range, means it receives abundant winter precipitation from Pacific storms, but summers are dry due to the rain shadow effect of the mountains.
• The warmest month (August) averages above 22 °C, but the driest month (July) has less than 30 mm of rain, fitting the s and b subtypes.
• Winters are mild enough to avoid the coldest months in Cfc (humid continental) climates, but cold enough to exclude Cfa (humid subtropical) climates.

Conclusion: In 1950, Salem’s climate would have been Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean), with cold, wet winters and warm, dry summers, consistent with its current Köppen classification Wikipedia+1.

LINK

The climate remains the same 76 years later.

Give it up kid you have been exposed as a liar as usual.

Really? 1.1 degree Celsius in insignificant? LOL You simply cannot face the reality and want to put your head in the sand and ignore it.

The Willamette Valley has warmed by approximately 1.1°C per century, with notable increases in both air and river temperatures.

Long-Term​

Research using archival data and statistical models shows that water temperatures in the lower Willamette River have increased by about 1.1°C per century since the mid-19th century, with the largest warming observed in winter months (January–February, ~1.3°C per century) and smaller increases in late spring (May–June, ~0.8°C per century) (Talke et al., 2023). Air temperatures in the Pacific Northwest, including the Willamette Valley, have similarly risen by roughly 1.1°C since 1900, consistent with regional climate model predictions (Mote et al., 2019).

copernicus.org+2

Seasonal​

The warming has altered seasonal patterns in the river system. Cold-water days below 2°C have virtually disappeared, and the river no longer freezes in winter. Conversely, the number of days exceeding the ecologically important threshold of 20°C has increased by about 20 days, now averaging around 60 days per year. These changes affect aquatic ecosystems, including salmon populations, which are sensitive to elevated water temperatures (Talke et al., 2023).

copernicus.org+1

Contributing​

While climate-driven air temperature increases account for the majority of warming (approximately 0.81°C since 1900), human activities such as reservoir construction, river depth changes, and managed water releases have contributed an additional ~0.34°C to river warming. Seasonal water management can temporarily reduce temperatures by up to 0.56°C in late summer (Talke et al., 2023). These anthropogenic factors have also reduced daily temperature variability and altered the river’s response to short-term weather events.

Portland State University+1

Summary​

Overall, the Willamette Valley has experienced clear warming over the last century, with both air and river temperatures rising by roughly 1.1°C. This warming is most pronounced in winter months and has significant ecological implications, including longer periods of warm water and the disappearance of freezing events. Both climate change and human modifications to the river system have contributed to these trends, highlighting the combined influence of natural and anthropogenic factors on regional temperature changes (Talke et al., 2023; Mote et al., 2019).

copernicus.org+1

copernicus.org
HESS - Warming of the Willamette River, 1850–present: the effects of ...


Portland State University
"Data From: Warming of the Willamette River, 1850–Present: The Effects ...

 

[0311]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/10/climate/snow-loss-northern-hemisphere-study-climate This was forecast back in 2024.
Fast forward to today, and whoops, guess they were wrong again. But, but, what "if"? The Global Warming Cabal, which has stolen trillions of tax dollars, just by scaring the Low IQ voter, should be brought up on charges.

MSN

because Climate Change real dip shit.

 

[gtopa1]

I think one issue is that climate naturally changes over centuries, now it appears to be changing over decades.

In 1975/77 I did a paper on Long cycles in Economics and showed them to be related to atmospheric trends causing rises in the wholesale price of crops related to climate effects. Over the years the cycles shortened. Chap's name was Kondratieff.

Understanding Kondratieff Waves​

A Kondratieff Wave is a long-term economic cycle believed to be born out of technological innovation, which results in a long period of prosperity. This theory was founded by Nikolai D. Kondratieff (also spelled "Kondratiev"), a communist Russia-era economist who noticed agricultural commodity and copper prices experienced long-term cycles. Kondratieff believed that these cycles involved periods of evolution and self-correction.

Economists have identified the following Kondratieff Waves since the 18th century.

1. The first resulted from the invention of the steam engine and ran from 1780 to 1830.
2. The second cycle arose because of the steel industry and the spread of railroads and ran from 1830 to 1880.
3. The third cycle resulted from electrification and innovation in the chemical industry and ran from 1880 to 1930.
4. The fourth cycle was fueled by autos and petrochemicals and lasted from 1930 to 1970.
5. The fifth cycle was based on information technology and began in 1970 and ran through the present, though some economists believe we are at the start of a sixth wave that will be driven by biotechnology and healthcare.

Of course one looks at TECHNOLOGY first but it was interesting that the cycles also seemed to correspond to agricultural production related to climate cycles.

AI While Kondratieff Waves (K-Waves) are primarily macroeconomic theories concerning 40 to 60-year boom-and-bust cycles driven by technological innovation, they are frequently linked to climate and agricultural cycles. Proponents argue that these rhythms are intertwined through resource demand, solar activity, and societal responses. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

The Core Linkages

• Agricultural Roots: Russian economist Nikolai Kondratieff originally formulated his long-wave theory in the 1920s based on historical data showing long-term cycles in agricultural commodity and raw material prices. Fluctuations in weather patterns and crop yields were heavily tied to these price movements.

A bit of Column A; a bit of column B....interesting.

Greg

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

True or false, right or wrong are irrelevant to the AGW agenda. The purpose is to squeeze the economy and generate government dependence.
So there no need for them to admit to anything.

 

[EMH]

it turns out those conclusions based on satellite and weather balloon data were based on faulty analyses.

All data showing "no warming" gets the same response, because all data save Urban Heat Island Effect showed NO WARMING before being FUDGED.



The fudge excuses are pathetic, already documented above.

 

[EMH]

older radiosonde instruments used in the 1970's were not as well shielded from sunlight as more recent models

Then the "correction" is a constant added to the series, which still leaves a FLAT LINE as a FLAT LINE.


How did that "correction" take a FLAT LINE and create an upward slope?

 

[Oklahoma Journalist]

Liar. When health care became a profit generating machine, health care in this nation has deteriorated compared to the other wealthy nations ever since. They have longer, healthy lives than do Americans and they do not have 500,000 families suffering medical bankruptcy every year.

Stop being fat.

 

[Mushroom]

HA HA HA HA HA, you are so bad at this since I have PERSONAL experience in how crappy the program is as doctors over time vacate Obamacare from their list, right now it hard to get a doctor for my daughters ADHD because many doesn't accept the only insurance coverage she has which is Obamacare.

There is one thing I have been saying for over three decades now.

If "Government Health Care" is so bloody awesome, why in the hell is the VA a complete disaster? My current "annual physical" is now over a year past due, the last three appointments I had they cancelled 48 hours or less before I was to see the doctor and rescheduled them for another three months. Which once again got cancelled, rinse and repeat to where I am now.

They are not even capable of going "Hey, we have to cancel somebody and here is a guy that has been cancelled on twice already. So we will allow him to have his appointment and cancel somebody who has not been bounced two different times already".

For over three decades I have been saying the exact same thing. "Want me to believe in Government Health Care, fix the damned VA. That is the most perfect example of Government Health Care, and they are a complete failure at taking care of only the 10% or so of the population they are actually responsible for taking care of. Unless they can fix that, there is no way in hell I am ever willing to trust them with the care of the other 90% of the population.

This is the problem with a lot of these people, they for some moronic reason actually trust the Government. Where as I see it as primarily a self-interest bureaucracy where most of those in it are only interested in maintaining their own jobs and positions. And so long as something guarantees those two things, they will do it.

And no, I am in no way "Anti-Government". I was after all a government employee for three decades. But I trust it to care more about their own existence than I am anything else. In the end it I see it as neither a "Republican Problem" or a "Democrat Problem", but as an "Apathy Problem".

 

[EMH]

LOL, no you are making a complete fool of yourself here since you didn't bother to look in the link that shows even with changes in temperature and precipitation climate zones will remain the same for a long time.

From Wikipedia you lazily ignored.



There are only FIVE climate zones in existence.

When was the Arctic region NOT a polar region......

When was Equador region NOT a Tropical region.....

When was Antarctica region NOT a polar region.....

When was the Sahara NOT a dry region.....

Surely it becomes obvious when you actually try to think.

That's all complete BS.

Climate is planetary. How much ice on the planet determines


temperature
humidity
air pressure
ocean level


for the entire planet. From there, local regions fluctuate, but the amount of ice dictates the planet's climate.

If you switched the Arctic and Antarctic Circles now, Texas would regularly get to -40F, but EARTH's climate as a whole would not change at all.

 

[Mushroom]

No climate isn't changing for most of the world you fell for this obvious propaganda since most people including YOU are profound Science Illiterates who doesn't realize most regions of the world have remained unchanged climatically for centuries.

Oh, it is changing. It has always been changing. But not at the speed they try to claim it is.

Want proof it is changing, look no farther than the Great Plains. Those are classified now as CFa (humid subtropical) and DFa (humid continental). But go back 10-14 kya, and they were ET (tundra) and Dsc (subarctic).

And most of Canada now is DFa and Dfc (subarctic). Go back 10-14 kya, and it was EF (ice cap).

Yes, climates change. They always have, they always will. If they did not change, not much more than moss and lichen would be growing in the Great Plains, and Canada would still be covered in an ice cap.

 

[EMH]

Oh, it is changing. It has always been changing. But not at the speed they try to claim it is.

Want proof it is changing, look no farther than the Great Plains. Those are classified now as CFa (humid subtropical) and DFa (humid continental). But go back 10-14 kya, and they were ET (tundra) and Dsc (subarctic).

And most of Canada now is DFa and Dfc (subarctic). Go back 10-14 kya, and it was EF (ice cap).

Yes, climates change. They always have, they always will. If they did not change, not much more than moss and lichen would be growing in the Great Plains, and Canada would still be covered in an ice cap.

North America is moving away from North Pole and warming, has been for 20 million or so years. 3 million years ago there were 5+ million cubic miles of ice on NA. Now there is less than 50k, 30k of which is on Ellesmere.