Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

That's why it was a big deal that they worshiped Jesus as God. They risked their lives. They must have had a good reason to risk their lives. No one knowingly risks their life for no good reason. The NT explains the good reason they risked their lives.
The Jewish belief is that dreams are the medium through which God speaks to the faithful. The disciples, seeing Jesus and interacting with him in their dreams, convince them that Jesus survived death and was in the eternal realm of God.

They saw Jesus in dreams and realized he was in the realm of God, which is the reward of the righteous. This convinced them that Jesus was right and they would survive death too, if they had the faith and courage to hold out till the bitter end.

Their faith had absolutely nothing whatever to do at all with a belief, an irrational belief, that Jesus was God.
 
The Jewish belief is that dreams are the medium through which God speaks to the faithful. The disciples, seeing Jesus and interacting with him in their dreams, convince them that Jesus survived death and was in the eternal realm of God.

They saw Jesus in dreams and realized he was in the realm of God, which is the reward of the righteous. This convinced them that Jesus was right and they would survive death too, if they had the faith and courage to hold out till the bitter end.

Their faith had absolutely nothing whatever to do at all with a belief, an irrational belief, that Jesus was God.

You two have been arguing semantics.

When we discuss God in the modern age - most people automatically think of one God, creator of heaven and Earth. The term "gods" is present in older manuscripts and Biblical translations but has been changed to angels and kings in modern versions.

Both Jesus' followers and even some of his naysayers acknowledged that Jesus was a prophet, teacher and healer. The people closest to him felt and believed he was even more. Jesus himself did not want these types of titles being spread about him - he wanted individuals to believe in his message because of the miracles and healing it provided - not because of a title given to him by others.

Mark 1:

Jesus Heals a Man With Leprosy​

40. ;A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”

41. Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42. Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed.

43. Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44. “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.” 45. Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.

Here, not only did Jesus tell the man not to tell anyone, he also instructed him to follow the Mosaic Law of cleansing sacrifice as a testament to the religious leaders. Why? "Because Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it."



In Mark 7, Jesus again instructs them not to speak of it:

31. Returning from the region of Tyre, Jesus traveled by way of Sidon to the Sea of Galilee, and into the region of the Decapolis. 32. Thereupon people brought to him a deaf man who had a speech impediment and begged him to lay his hand on him. 33. He took him aside, away from the crowd, and put his fingers into the man’s ears and, spitting, touched his tongue. 34. Then, looking up to heaven, he sighed and said to him, “Ephphatha!” which means, “Be opened!” 35. At once, the man’s ears were opened, his tongue was loosened, and he spoke properly.

36. Then he ordered them not to tell anyone, but the more he ordered them not to do so, the more widely they proclaimed it.
37. Their astonishment was beyond measure. “He has done all things well,” they said. “He even makes the deaf able to hear and the mute able to speak.”



In Mark 10, Jesus states that it is through faith that the man is healed - emphasizing faith and understanding:

46 Then they came to Jericho. And as Jesus, his disciples, and a huge crowd were leaving Jericho, a blind man, Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, Mark was sitting by the roadside asking for alms. 47When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to shout, “Jesus, Son of David, have pity on me!” 48. ;Many rebuked him and told him to be silent, but he only shouted all the louder, “Son of David, have pity on me!”

49. Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” So they called the blind man, saying to him, “Take heart! Stand up! He is calling you!” 50. Casting aside his cloak, he jumped up and went to Jesus. 51. Then Jesus said to him, “What do you want me to do for you?” The blind man said to him, “Rabbi, let me receive my sight.” 52. Jesus said to him, “Go on your way! Your faith has made you well.” Immediately, he received his sight and followed him along the road.


Again in Matthew 22:

22Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.


It is evident through these passages (and many more) that the people praised and raised Jesus to prophetic levels by his works and teachings - to the point that it eventually caused the religious leaders to bring accusations of blasphemy against him, among other charges.

One must also understand that Jesus spoke and taught in a Spiritual sense - meaning that his personal relationship with God was one of Father and Son. He spoke about it from a very spiritual place of love and understanding - not form a place of forced authority. He repeatedly stated that it was through people's faith in God that they were healed - it was through their faith in God that they understood his teachings and so forth.

Through his passion and sacrifice - he became deified among the people. In pagan Rome - he could have easily been regarded as a "Son of god" and later even a "god" There are historical accounts of Romans mocking Christians stating that they followed the Jewish version of the god Dionysus - among others.

If you take note - when Pilate questioned him, he asked him if he was "The King of the Jews" - he did not ask him if he proclaimed to be God. Why? Because to Rome, him being deified among the people would not have been something utterly offensive in pagan Rome. What would have caused issues is if Jesus proclaimed that he was King of the Jews over Caesar - which Jesus never claimed.

Throughout the writings of the Apostles- Jesus is referred to as "The Son of God" and was praised as being one with the Father in the Spiritual sense. The Holy Trinity specifically states that God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit - 3 persons - one God.

To conclude, Jesus spoke of being spiritually one with the Father. That said - he still spoke of the Father as a separate person when giving his final instructions his Apostles:

John 16:



25;“I have used figures of speech
to explain these things to you.
The hour is coming
when I will no longer use figures,
but I will tell you about the Father in plain words.

26;When that day comes,
you will make requests in my name.
I do not say
that I will entreat the Father on your behalf.

27;For the Father himself loves you
because you have loved me
and have come to believe
that I came from God.


28I came from the Father
and have come into the world.
Now I am leaving the world
and returning to the Father.”
 
You two have been arguing semantics.

When we discuss God in the modern age - most people automatically think of one God, creator of heaven and Earth. The term "gods" is present in older manuscripts and Biblical translations but has been changed to angels and kings in modern times.
no, you are just wrong. This is not about semantics. First of all the Hebrew word translated as gods is Elohim. Which means gods or judges. Not kings or angels.

Next, words have meaning, to say Jesus is God is simply a lie. God has no visible shape or material form.

Jesus said he was sent by God and that God told him what to say, and how to say it. After the crucifixion Jesus said he was ascending to his father and their father. His God and their God, which means he did not think of himself as God or claim to be God.

Jesus claimed that he did what no other man could do and he was right, no other man but the Messiah predicted in Deut18:18, and when Jesus predicted that God would send another man, like him, to confute the world, show wrong and right and judgment lie, convince everyone that Jesus was right, and that the prince of this world stands condemned he was making the exact same prediction Moses made that God would send another like him to “convey all his commands,” DEUT. 18: 18.

The fact remains that whatever is written in whatever book there never was and never will be a human being that was God, or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Any claim in three gods in one god head or one God in three persons or a sacrificial mangod, “a perfect human sacrifice”, who died for your sins is just a satanic lie.

That’s what you have to face. So stop writhing in your deathbed.

Stand upright and walk like a man who reflects the image and likeness of a holy, separate, God who is one.

Where is your faith? Be an individual, be one as God is one.
 
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no, you are just wrong. This is not about semantics. First of all the Hebrew word translated as gods is Elohim. Which means gods or judges. Not kings or angels.

Next, words have meaning, to say Jesus is God is simply a lie. God has no visible shape or material form.

Jesus said he was sent by God and that God told him what to say, and how to say it. After the crucifixion Jesus said he was ascending to his father and their father. His God and their God, which means he did not think of himself as God or claim to be God.

Jesus claimed that he did what no other man could do and he was right, no other man but the Messiah predicted in Deut18:18, and when Jesus predicted that God would send another man, like him, to confute the world, show wrong and right and judgment lie, convince everyone that Jesus was right, and that the prince of this world stands condemned he was making the exact same prediction Moses made that God would send another like him to “convey all his commands,” DEUT. 18: 18.

The fact remains that whatever is written in whatever book there never was and never will be a human being that was God, or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Any claim in three gods in one god head or one God in three persons or a sacrificial mangod, “a perfect human sacrifice”, who died for your sins is just a satanic lie.

That’s what you have to face. So stop writhing in your deathbed.

Stand upright and walk like a man who reflects the image and likeness of a holy, separate, God who is one.

Where is your faith? Be an individual, be one as God is one.

What is your definition of an "Angel of God"?

Who was "The Lord God" in the Garden of Eden?

Genesis 3:21-23:

21. ;The Lord God made clothing for the man and woman out of animal skins and he clothed them. 22. The Lord God said, “Behold, man has become like one of us, for he has knowledge of that which is good and that which is evil. Now, we must prevent him from reaching out and taking the fruit of the tree of life lest he eat it and live forever.” 23. The Lord God cast him out of the Garden of Eden; henceforth he was to labor tilling the soil from which he had come.

The Lord God makes physical garments and physically casts mankind out. Then goes on to say, "man is like one of us now".

Who is The Lord God speaking to?
 
The Jewish belief is that dreams are the medium through which God speaks to the faithful. The disciples, seeing Jesus and interacting with him in their dreams, convince them that Jesus survived death and was in the eternal realm of God.

They saw Jesus in dreams and realized he was in the realm of God, which is the reward of the righteous. This convinced them that Jesus was right and they would survive death too, if they had the faith and courage to hold out till the bitter end.

Their faith had absolutely nothing whatever to do at all with a belief, an irrational belief, that Jesus was God.
No one risks their souls on dreams, dummy. They had good reason to worship Jesus as God. Read the NT.
 
What is your definition of an "Angel of God?
The kingdom of God was in existence long before there was life on earth. That being said, there are many classes of angels in the kingdom of God, and, as Jesus said, “there are many mansions in my father’s house” which means there are many superior life forms in the kingdom of God. All prophets are inspired by angels.

Otherworldly beings, living creatures from another sphere of intelligent life, who brought news of God to the inhabitants of the Earth. What people today would identify as aliens

Who is The Lord God speaking to?
The cherubim who was stationed “east of Eden” with a flaming and flashing SWORD, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.
 
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No one risks their souls on dreams
Tell that to Martin Luther King.

Aside from that, there are many recorded instances in the Bible, where dreams were obeyed and people risked their lives and were even killed following the instructions they were given in dreams.


They had good reason to worship Jesus as God. Read the NT.
That’s just plain dumb. There’s no such thing as a Trinity. There is no such thing as a mangod who was crucified so you can get a get out of hell free card instead of being held accountable for your own stupid sins and there is no such thing as an invisible ghost who makes people squeak and jibber and jump around like drunken monkeys.

By the way, ding, the fact that you cannot perceive the absurdity of turning aside the law of God to seek spiritual life from a lifeless matzo made by human hands is proof that in spite of the many years of munching on your imaginary Jesus in church it has not saved you from the consequences of your own sins, death, a curse that you so perfectly display in your obstinate stupidity

Dummy
 
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Let's look at God using "Game Theory".

You believe and God is real....you win.

You don't believe and God is real......you lose.

You believe and God is not real.....you still don't lose.

You don't believe and God is not real....you win marginally.


People are stupid and self destructive. Those who believe in God stand a 75% chance of winning over and above those who refuse to believe.

It's like playing blackjack in Vegas at a casino without looking at your cards...(not a good chance at winning)
 
Let's look at God using "Game Theory".

You believe and God is real....you win.

You don't believe and God is real......you lose.

You believe and God is not real.....you still don't lose.

You don't believe and God is not real....you win marginally.


People are stupid and self destructive. Those who believe in God stand a 75% chance of winning over and above those who refuse to believe.

It's like playing blackjack in Vegas at a casino without looking at your cards...(not a good chance at winning)
You seem to have left out of your speculations that if what people believe about God is false then only atheists will win the jackpot.

Think about it, in the eyes of God what would be better?

For a person to spend their entire life praying to a false god that doesn’t exist, kinda like the antichrist a supernatural mangod whose miracles of the lie that scripture is to be taken literally does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence, or to spend your life not believing in complete bullshit?

Take your time…
 
You seem to have left out of your speculations that if what people believe about God is false then only atheists will win the jackpot.

Think about it, in the eyes of God what would be better?

For a person to spend their entire life praying to a false god that doesn’t exist, kinda like the antichrist a supernatural mangod whose miracles of the lie that scripture is to be taken literally does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence, or to spend your life not believing in complete bullshit?

Take your time…
Read what I wrote MORE CAREFULLY.

You missed it.

The social stigma of being an atheist in a Christian Society created by Christians and explicitly for Christians....it's huge.

So....
If you don't believe and God is not real you only win marginally and on one subject. But the lack of social acceptance for your unbelief is MORE DETRIMENTAL than the cost of believing in most circumstances. You will miss out on opportunities with those perceived as having more moral Fibre being offered those opportunities and bypassing you. Even though sometimes the atheist will actually have more moral Fibre because he does not believe in forgiveness.
That's the truth. You may not like it but.....
Atheists are losers every way you slice it.

The issue becomes more difficult because there is no golden test for belief. Christ followers, by definition, are uncountable and unmeasurable. Even regular pew warmers usually do not have sufficient evidence to convict them by jury of being a Christian if it were a crime. God is the Judge and I prefer that He alone does that job....not me or any other human.
 
The kingdom of God was in existence long before there was life on earth. That being said, there are many classes of angels in the kingdom of God, and, as Jesus said, “there are many mansions in my father’s house” which means there are many superior life forms in the kingdom of God. All prophets are inspired by angels.

Otherworldly beings, living creatures from another sphere of intelligent life, who brought news of God to the inhabitants of the Earth. What people today would identify as aliens


The cherubim who was stationed “east of Eden” with a flaming and flashing SWORD, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Very good. Although I seldom agree entirely with your words - the one thing I expect is an honest answer - from your mind, body/heart and soul/spirit - and for that, you should be commended.

If the followers of Jesus or any other prophet, sect, etc were taught certain rituals - who would be commended for teaching the student? The master or the student?
 
Let's look at God using "Game Theory".

You believe and God is real....you win.

You don't believe and God is real......you lose.

You believe and God is not real.....you still don't lose.

You don't believe and God is not real....you win marginally.


People are stupid and self destructive. Those who believe in God stand a 75% chance of winning over and above those who refuse to believe.

It's like playing blackjack in Vegas at a casino without looking at your cards...(not a good chance at winning)
And of you believe in the wrong God, who says put no other gods before me but bring sunbelievers in later, then you lose, and the atheist wins.

This is why Pascal's Wager is shallow garbage.
 
If the followers of Jesus or any other prophet, sect, etc were taught certain rituals - who would be commended for teaching the student? The master or the student?
Well, if speaking of Jesus, he did not claim to be the origin of the teaching so in this case, all glory belongs to God. Even if they received the teaching from Jesus. That being said, everything that I have made known I have drawn from what Jesus taught.

And if you are referring to rituals, memorial bondage, I suggest you read Jeremiah 25:15 where you can see with your own eyes that the SWORD that Jesus said he came to bring is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine.

That is why it is written, “he who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who lives by the SWORD shall die by the SWORD.
 
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Well, if speaking of Jesus, he did not claim to be the origin of the teaching so in this case, all glory belongs to God. Even if they received the teaching from Jesus. That being said, everything that I have made known I have drawn from what Jesus taught.

And if you are referring to rituals, memorial bondage, I suggest you read Jeremiah 25:15 where you can see with your own eyes that the SWORD that Jesus said he came to bring is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine.

That is why it is written, “he who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who lives by the SWORD shall die by the SWORD.

If a child is taught to follow rituals and does so out of the pureness of their souls - including Holy Eucharist - what will be the fate of that Child, in your opinion?
 
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And of you believe in the wrong God, who says put no other gods before me but bring sunbelievers in later, then you lose, and the atheist wins.

This is why Pascal's Wager is shallow garbage.
Nope....

The Holy Bible in common use today is a Unique set of books and letters. It's written in 4 different languages by over 40 authors over a period of 3500 years....but they all align and agree perfectly with several thousand attestations of accuracy and validity.

No other piece or pieces of literature have anything like the content of the Bible, nothing with the same fulfilled prophecy, nothing with the same accuracy, nothing with the same focus of altruism, humility, love and forgiveness.

So your claim of being "the wrong God" are a straw dog.
 
Tell that to Martin Luther King.

Aside from that, there are many recorded instances in the Bible, where dreams were obeyed and people risked their lives and were even killed following the instructions they were given in dreams.



That’s just plain dumb. There’s no such thing as a Trinity. There is no such thing as a mangod who was crucified so you can get a get out of hell free card instead of being held accountable for your own stupid sins and there is no such thing as an invisible ghost who makes people squeak and jibber and jump around like drunken monkeys.

By the way, ding, the fact that you cannot perceive the absurdity of turning aside the law of God to seek spiritual life from a lifeless matzo made by human hands is proof that in spite of the many years of munching on your imaginary Jesus in church it has not saved you from the consequences of your own sins, death, a curse that you so perfectly display in your obstinate stupidity

Dummy
Again... No one risks their souls on dreams. They had good reason to worship Jesus as God after he rose from the dead. Read the NT.
 
No one risks their souls on dreams.

why would books of fiction, desert bibles be any different or better than dreams of accomplishments for the better to come.

jesus perished and will not be seen on earth again than were it possible for everyone else.
 
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