Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[hobelim]

That doesn’t mean it’s inherently impossible, but given that believers routinely rely on epistemically unsound reasoning, while never producing a sound alternative in my experience, the probability that such a justification exists is low.

Notice how I frame that: I’m not presenting my position as certain, only as having a probability based on available evidence. That’s how science works too, conclusions are always provisional because they must always remain open to being improved.

Well, I noticed that every professed believer who worships Jesus as if he was a mangod, which is idolatry, (not to mention ridiculous) displays all of the signs of what the authors of scripture described as "the death" a curse.

So when anyone points out the logical impossibility of such a belief to be the truth, something that they already know, they accuse you of not having the faith it takes to be a pretentious asshole every day and night for life.

The horror! Woe is me! lol

If a you can ruminate you'll see they died and descended into hell the realm of the dead, the curse is insanity.

This is testable and verifiable, the evidence provided by all the prisoners in hells keeping who can't face the fact that they died to themselves and to others in a real way by choosing a delusion over life in harmony with reality.

This is the simple subject of Kosher Law. If a person swallows the bullshit, eats the flesh of a talking serpent, they will die and descend into hell becoming a disposable possession of whatever devil 'beguiled' them, or, if you fill your mind with trash tossed into Gehenna by superior intelligences you will defile and contaminate your mind.

Losing your soul = losing your mind. Being possessed by a devil = being under the mind control of a devil.

Its just a simple update of terms that everyone whatever they profess to believe or not believe knows to be true. This does not only apply to the religious. It also applies to politics, ideologies, and anyone who swallows bullshit.

WITHOUT RUMINATING.

Here is the hidden wisdom and purpose of God in giving the law to not eat the flesh of swine that don't ruminate.

If you fail to heed these instructions you could end up like Quantrill or ding. Thats should be terrifying to anyone.

 

[hobelim]

The opposite force is also true, Christians can be guided by the Holy Spirit in the decsion making process. It by no means says the presence of the guidance of the Holy Spirit stopped the function of free will.

If a Christian is guided by the "Holy Ghost", a disembodied entity, into "just believing" by faith that a trinity diddled a virgin to become a mangod, "a perfect human sacrifice" so that believers who accept the proposition that God became an innocent Jewish magic man who was murdered so that "believers" can sin with impunity for life and not die "the death" consequent for their own sins is being guided by something but it isn't Holy at all.

Its demonic and its guidance is objectively reprehensible.

 

[Hawkins]

If a Christian is guided by the "Holy Ghost", a disembodied entity, into "just believing" by faith that a trinity diddled a virgin to become a mangod, "a perfect human sacrifice" so that believers who accept the proposition that God became an innocent Jewish magic man who was murdered so that "believers" can sin with impunity for life and not die "the death" consequent for their own sins is being guided by something but it isn't Holy at all.

Its objectively reprehensible.

You are so blind. Even today's humans can plant embryos. What's so surprised?

 

[GMCGeneral]

You're Preaching, "My Way or the Highway!" That Makes Your Way the Low Way.

Not me, thr Word of G-d declares this.

 

[hobelim]

You are so blind. Even today's humans can plant embryos. What's so surprised?

For a human virgin to conceive and give birth to a human baby she needs 23 chromosomes from a human father.



Does this shock you?

 

[Hawkins]

For a human virgin to conceive and give birth to a human baby she needs 23 chromosomes from a human father.



Does this shock you?

I am not surprised. It's said that Jesus is another Adam. Does this shock you?

Why do you think that it shocks me, when God can keep all genetic information of any human (besides He can create one). Humans are IDed in the book of Life. Does this shock you?

You are so blind to argue from the POV that humans are with superior technology than God is, while assuming that I should be surprised? By your human technology? You must be joking, right?.

 

[hobelim]

I am not surprised. It's said that Jesus is another Adam.

You just believe that Adam had no human mother or father? It wasn't just a fairy tale about a numbskull who was given the opportunity for a far more fulfilling life than in the dust of the earth but instead screwed the pooch?

Does this shock you?

No, this is no shock coming from a person who "believes" that God became an innocent Jewish man who was crucified as "a perfect human sacrifice" so that numbnuts like you can remain an oblivious asshole and sin with impunity for life and not die the death for sinning that you so cluelessly generously openly and perfectly display.

 

[Hawkins]

So you "just believe" that Adam had no human mother or human father? It wasn't just a fairy tale about a numbskull who was given the opportunity for a better life more fulfilling but instead screwed the pooch?




No, this is no shock coming from a person who believes that God became an innocent Jewish man who was crucified as "a perfect human sacrifice" so that numbnuts like you can sin with impunity for life and not die the death for sinning that you so cluelessly generously openly and perfectly display.

Wow you are so blind, really blind. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Adam is truly created from scratch, then how do you get to this piece of truth? The hard fact is, you are as a human is incapable of getting to this piece of truth with your own capability.

Now you call everything a fairytale simply because you are unable to reach what truth could be? That's your stupidity.

That said. A fairytale is the lake of an eyewitness. Adam is said to be witnessed by God and by His angels. Such a testimony remains the only vessel for the incapable humans to reach a truth. You are so blind to even incapable of distinguishing a fairytale from a testimony!

To unfold the blind from your kind. It works this way;
Is Adam a fairytale? Let's assume that Adam to be a truth first for the sake of argument. If this is true how can you reach it? The only way for the incapable humans to reach such a truth, is through a testimony from someone who is present in the scene and on sight. If Adam is true, those who can write such a testimony shall be from either God or/and His angels created earlier. Humans are incapable of reaching such a truth by other means. So whatever claims of truth shall be either from God or from His angels. That's the meaning of a testimony. The incapable humans need faith to believe a testimony from the possible eyewitnesses on sight to get to such a truth.

A fairytale never emphasizes eyewitnesses or testimonies, as it is actually an existence built upon the lack of eyewitnesses and testimonies.

This is not complicated. You yourself remain a proof that humans are blinded from telling apart something as simple as the difference between a testimony and a fairytale.

 

[hobelim]

Wow you are so blind, really blind. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Adam is truly created from scratch, then how do you get to this piece of truth? The hard fact is, you are as a human is incapable of getting to this piece of truth with your own capability.

Yeah yeah yeah. I know. It is a MYSTERY to great for the human mind to comprehend, because its pure bullshit.

Adam was not created from scratch. Thats just too stupid for even a second grade child to believe where I come from. The story amounts to a story about a homeless guy being taken in by a king who tried to teach him a better way of life with only one request. Don't screw the pooch. But instead of listening or being grateful he screwed the pooch and got tossed out of that "paradise" compared to the wilderness and the wild animals he was raised by.

There is no truth in your belief that Adam was created from scratch or that Jesus didn't have a human father. Its just ignorance, gullibility. A person has to ignore reality, not to mention the entire Bible, to "believe" in such lies.

Give it up already. Your sorcery has absolutely no effect on me.



"They pay no heed to the real hidden meaning of things but divert themselves instead with all kinds of iniquitous arcane lore. They do not know the hidden meaning of what is actually taking place, nor have they ever understood the lessons of the past. consequently, they have no knowledge of what is coming upon them and have done NOTHING to save their souls from the deeper implications of present events."

The Dead Sea Scrolls, The Triumph Of YAHWEH, (Of Thanksgiving for Victory (xviii 1-15)).

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Faith is a gift from God.

Faith is a mental handicap that, when actively pursued, exacerbates the human mind's hardwired affinity for believing nonsense.

 

[hobelim]

Faith is a mental handicap that, when actively pursued, exacerbates the human mind's hardwired affinity for believing nonsense.

A lot of people claim that irrational religious beliefs are hardwired, a basic instinct. I disagree that belief is an instinct except that religious beliefs are directly connected to the basic instinct to survive because throughout history unbelievers were outcast or killed, even entire families. So they engage in pretense as a matter of survival.

I'm sure many people living in extremest Islamic areas don't believe that Mohammed was the greatest prophet. They just don't want their heads chopped off. Thats not an affinity for believing nonsense. Thats an affinity for life.

Same with crypto Jews.

They never believed that God was edible. They were just trying to avoid being the guest of honor at an auto de fe because Moses said, "Choose life and live." In those days admitting to being a Red Sea pedestrian was suicide.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A lot of people claim that irrational religious beliefs are hardwired, a basic instinct. I disagree that belief is an instinct except that religious beliefs are directly connected to the basic instinct to survive because throughout history unbelievers were outcast or killed, even entire families. So they engage in pretense as a matter of survival.

I'm sure many people living in extremest Islamic areas don't believe that Mohammed was the greatest prophet.

They just don't want their heads chopped off. Thats not an affinity for believing nonsense. Thats an affinity for life.

The affinity for believing nonsense is hardwired. Gods are just one form of such nonsense.

 

[forkup]

As you measured the speed at which an object falls, which results in a 'fact', can you measure the speed of how fast an angel can fly? Or, can you determine where God is? Can you measure how long it took God to create Adam and Eve? Is Evolution a 'fact' or 'theory'?

No, you cannot say with unwanted certainty because you are applying your scientific method of knowing to your question. In other word's you reject any answer based upon faith which deals with the supernatural. You may say you don't reject the supernatural, but you do as you reject the only way to know if God, or Christ, or the Bible is true or a fact. You only accept the scientific method. And that is like a plumber trying to learn or test electricity using plumbers tools.

Are you open to faith being the only method to know God, Christ, and the Bible? Because thus far, science can't prove it?

Quantrill

Evolution is a theory, and in science, that’s actually stronger than a “fact.” A fact just describes what we see. A theory explains why we see it, and makes predictions that can be tested against new evidence. That’s why theories are the highest form of scientific knowledge: they unify facts into a framework that keeps proving itself over and over.

As for your point about faith: you’re right that I don’t accept things on faith alone. But neither do you, at least not consistently. You don’t believe in unicorns, the Easter Bunny, or the tooth fairy, even though plenty of people (especially children) have believed in them. You’ve carved out a special exception for your particular religion, while rejecting thousands of other religions past and present that also claim faith as their only method of knowing.

The scientific method is different. It’s a process designed to figure out what’s likely true by testing explanations against reality. It has a track record of producing reliable results, medicine, technology, physics, biology, things that work regardless of belief. Faith, by contrast, doesn’t have that kind of predictive power. That doesn’t mean faith is automatically wrong, but it does mean it’s far less reliable (if reliable at all) as a way of knowing.

So, when you say I’m rejecting your religion by applying the scientific method, what you’re really saying is that I’m refusing to accept an inferior method of knowing as equal to one that consistently works. And yes, I apply that same standard to your religion as I do to every other claim. That’s not bias, that’s consistency.

 

[forkup]

Wow you are so blind, really blind. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Adam is truly created from scratch, then how do you get to this piece of truth? The hard fact is, you are as a human is incapable of getting to this piece of truth with your own capability.

Now you call everything a fairytale simply because you are unable to reach what truth could be? That's your stupidity.

That said. A fairytale is the lake of an eyewitness. Adam is said to be witnessed by God and by His angels. Such a testimony remains the only vessel for the incapable humans to reach a truth. You are so blind to even incapable of distinguishing a fairytale from a testimony!

To unfold the blind from your kind. It works this way;
Is Adam a fairytale? Let's assume that Adam to be a truth first for the sake of argument. If this is true how can you reach it? The only way for the incapable humans to reach such a truth, is through a testimony from someone who is present in the scene and on sight. If Adam is true, those who can write such a testimony shall be from either God or/and His angels created earlier. Humans are incapable of reaching such a truth by other means. So whatever claims of truth shall be either from God or from His angels. That's the meaning of a testimony. The incapable humans need faith to believe a testimony from the possible eyewitnesses on sight to get to such a truth.

A fairytale never emphasizes eyewitnesses or testimonies, as it is actually an existence built upon the lack of eyewitnesses and testimonies.

This is not complicated. You yourself remain a proof that humans are blinded from telling apart something as simple as the difference between a testimony and a fairytale.

Atheists aren’t claiming they have some special ability to distinguish fairy tales from faith. The point is that nobody can do that reliably without evidence. The problem arises when religious people claim they can, not because of evidence, but because of “faith.” That’s where the logic breaks down. Faith doesn’t provide a method for testing whether a claim is true; it only provides a reason to believe it regardless of evidence.

What you’re doing here is shifting the burden of proof. You’re saying: “You can’t disprove Adam, therefore you must accept testimony.” But that’s backwards. The burden of proof always lies with the person making the extraordinary claim. If someone says Adam was created from scratch, or that angels witnessed it, the responsibility is on them to provide evidence that can be tested. Otherwise, it’s indistinguishable from any other story, whether it’s Adam, Zeus, or the tooth fairy.

Testimony without independent verification is not a reliable path to truth. People testify to all sorts of contradictory religious experiences across cultures. If faith alone were a valid method, then every religion would be equally true, which collapses the distinction you’re trying to make between “testimony” and “fairy tale.”

 

[forkup]

That's your misinterpretation of what free will is. Free will is not without temptation. Do you actually know what temptation is? Temptation is just one kind of manipulation. Free will is a decision making process which can be subject to external influence. That's almost common sense. Adam as tempted to eat the fruit under manipulation by no means says that the decision is not from Adam's own free will.

The opposite force is also true, Christians can be guided by the Holy Spirit in the decsion making process. It by no means says the presence of the guidance of the Holy Spirit stopped the function of free will.

Romans 1:19-20
By your understanding, it means our science can explore outside of our own space? Apparently it remains your misunderstanding. The Scripture is not broken, your understanding will.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.


Faith is sometimes the exlusive way for humans to reach a truth, even when it is clearly presented. That's what is said. It's never about how science can discover the invisible as you are trying to advocate!

This is actually rather common among humans. In 2024 (not 2020) it's clearly presented that Trump won the votes. Do you have the scientific evidence as an individual? You don't. You have zero evidence about the votes of any US presidents in history! You faith leads to the presentation of truth which is clearly presented to you! That's how reality works.

Other than faith, there's nothing humans (the majority) can rely on to reach a truth such as the voting result of the election! Get a clue! Now you (I mean any single human embracing that mentality) are the proof that you (your mind) is under manipulation for you to fallaciously conclude that "you have the evidence of the votes of any US presisdent". You have the free will to keep that (fallacious) decision though! That's how your free will works! Again, get a clue (on the difference between a manipulation and free will)!

You clearly know (or can know) who the presidents are in US history, it's not by science nor evidence but by faith! How many votes did George Washington get? To this question, your science is a joke! Only your faith together with a piece of human testimony (writing/recording) shall possibly work! (unfold yourself from the manipulation to correctly perceive what truth could mean). The god of this world has clearly blinded the minds of men like you!

Actually, you are conflating knowing with having

justified conditional confidence

I explain what I mean by that here.

When we talk about something like presidential votes, we don’t rely on blind faith. We rely on historical records, multiple independent sources, and systems of verification. For example, Washington’s election results are documented in several archives, not just one person’s word. That’s evidence. It’s possible those records could be wrong, but it would take strong proof to overturn them. The same goes for modern elections, even more actually, there are numerous safeguards and checks to ensure accuracy. That’s why claims of fraud require extraordinary evidence, not just assertion.

Faith, by contrast, asks you to believe without verification. Testimony only becomes evidence when it can be corroborated. Otherwise, it’s indistinguishable from myth. People across cultures testify to contradictory religious experiences, if faith alone were a valid method, then every religion would be equally true. That collapses the distinction you’re trying to make between “testimony” and “fairy tale.”

So yes, it’s extremely difficult to know anything with 100% certainty. But that doesn’t mean faith and science are identical. Science builds conditional confidence through reproducible evidence and cross‑checking. Faith bypasses that process. They’re not even close.

 

[hadit]

Nice dodge

Provide actual facts

Which you will ignore or say are lies. You're looking for science to prove God's existence, and it cannot. God is a sovereign being, not an ATM, who does not have to obey anything man sets up for Him to do.

 

[DukeU]

It is difficult to wrap my head around that a supposed "loving" and "caring" creator put us in a reality where things such as childhood cancers, and other such diseases exist. If there is an all "loving" creator, where is the love for those who have their lives cut short due to horrible diseases? It seems there is none.

Taking all of my criticisms of organized religions aside, that would be number one.

If you read your Bible, you'd know that when mankind was created, there were no diseases.

Man brought that into the world with their sin against God.

 

[JanetTheGreat]

If you read your Bible, you'd know that when mankind was created, there were no diseases.

Man brought that into the world with their sin against God.

I always had a huge issue with that concept, that man brought it "into" the world, when we can clearly see that diseases have existed on this planet as long as there has been life, through the scientific method.

 

[DukeU]

I always had a huge issue with that concept, that man brought it "into" the world, when we can clearly see that diseases have existed on this planet as long as there has been life, through the scientific method.

I just said it started with Adam and Eve's sin.

Yes, they were the first humans on Earth.

 

[Hafar1014]

Is it because:

• Lack of belief we are lovable
• Lack of belief we are cared for
• Lack of belief God is an active agent in our lives
• Lack of belief we have a reason for being

What blocks people from believing in God? Why is it so hard to believe?

Emotions determine belief or non belief. It fills and emotional need