Why is abortion ever ok?

[g5000]

"Because I'm pro-liberty" is the easy and obvious answer to why I'm not anti-abortion.

It really does come down to a matter of liberty. A woman's body does not belong to you, your church or your government, and some people will just have to learn to deal with that.

Thank you. Well done. I don't care if someone is a Christian, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or any other stupid religion. Just get the fuck out of my bedroom.
My house. My life.

A fetus or a zygote is NOT a human being. And if some idiot thinks it is, then get that fetus a social security number and START PAYING THEIR TAXES FOR THEM. That will shut them the fuck up.

Since the fetus isn't working, they will get a big tax credit refund.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Half of all Americans self-identify as "pro-life" while the other half self-identify as "pro-choice", and yet 2/3 of all Americans are opposed to abortion after the first trimester. Under Roe v. Wade, second trimester abortions are legal. So 2/3 of Americans, including those who self-identify as "pro-choice", are opposed to Roe v. Wade, though many of them may not even realize it.

I am pro-life, and a few years back I was attempting to prove the rate of abortions skyrocketed after Roe v. Wade. So I was walking into my research with a heavy bias, believing that before Roe v. Wade abortions were around 7 percent of what they were after Roe v. Wade.

Turns out I was WAY off.

Turns out there were nearly a million legal abortions a year before Roe v. Wade, and after Roe v. Wade the rate of abortions did not rise dramatically.

Here's why. While there were only a handful of states which allowed unrestricted abortions, most of the states which outlawed abortions permitted abortions for "the health of the mother" and for rape or incest.

So what happened is that doctors created a mile wide definition of "the health of the mother", and the end result was nearly a million abortions a year under the "health of the mother" rule.

I write all this to point out that when someone says they are against abortion except in cases of rape and incest and the "health of the mother", they should know that what they mean is not what ends up happening in practice.

This also means that overturning Roe v. Wade would probably have zero effect on the rate of abortion in America.

That's very true. A woman who is faced with something she cannot financially or emotionally manage is going to get an abortion, especially if the sperm donor is MIA, which happens a lot. That is ALWAYS THE MISSING PIECE IN THESE ARGUMENTS. Many times the man/boy bolts.

There will be people who "know" of doctors who perform the procedure. It will be a huge underground industry much like it was before Roe v. Wade.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm a Christian female. Knowing a good bit about gestation, I wonder why people turn to abortion. How is it justified? What is the thought process? It seems most of participants is pro choice." so it seems like a good place to find out just what people are thinking. We must find the very roots of the problem...

In what manner would you like to criminalize it?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

"Because I'm pro-liberty" is the easy and obvious answer to why I'm not anti-abortion.

It really does come down to a matter of liberty. A woman's body does not belong to you, your church or your government, and some people will just have to learn to deal with that.

Thank you. Well done. I don't care if someone is a Christian, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or any other stupid religion. Just get the fuck out of my bedroom.
My house. My life.

A fetus or a zygote is NOT a human being. And if some idiot thinks it is, then get that fetus a social security number and START PAYING THEIR TAXES FOR THEM. That will shut them the fuck up.

Since the fetus isn't working, they will get a big tax credit refund.

Great, the parent or parents can call it a college savings fund.

 

[Kosh]

Being pro-choice is more than being pro-abortion..

Those that are really pro-choice will want women to have real choices when it comes to this subject.

Now the far left is ok with abortion being used as birth control and some women do use it as such. But that is their choice. No matter how much anyone disagrees with it.

No others get talked into having abortions when they are not mentally able to deal with it. Thus cause emotional scars and can cause many problems for them down the road.

The question should be asked like this: "Should abortion be illegal?" I would vote NO..

It is important to provide real choices for women and not have them walk into a clinic and be faced with only one choice, abortion. That is not being pro-choice, no matter how the far left wants to spin it..

 

[EatMorChikin]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Good questions.
As for rape, I have a hard time punishing the child for the crime. And I have heard some truly uplifting stories about women who carried "rape babies" to term and they are truly inspiring and amazing women. I have a hard time requiring that kind of torment by law. I would allow abortion in that case.

As for incest - we talking about two consenting adults, so I am less inclined to allow abortion in that case. But the couple should be held fully accountable for the care of any orc such a union produces.

No incest is not always 2 consenting adults. Sometimes it is a sicko father manipulating his daughter to hop in the sack with him. Some might call that rape, but I don't. It might be worse, but it isn't rape.

If the girl is under age - it is rape.
If she is not - then that is two consenting adults.

That is where we disagree a bit. Just because one is underage doesn't make it rape imo. But again, coercive incest is just as bad as rape. When I was 18 -20 I had a few GFs who were under 18, that didn't make me a rapist, even tho they try and label that as such. Depends on the state you are in. There are states where 14 is age of consent, and I will never be moving my daughter to such a place ha.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Part of the problem with abortion is we call it abortion. "Abortion" is an easy word to support. "Bashing your baby's head against the ground" isn't. Call things what they are and it's harder to support or not different things.

OK, call it pregnancy termination. I feel better already.

 

[g5000]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Every time someone says they are pro-life, it has become de rigueur to toss out this question.

This "rape and incest" tactic uses the victims of rape and incest as human shields to protect the more than 98 percent of abortions that have nothing to do with rape or incest. This is a sickening strategem which has become so reflexive, it has almost become disconnected from the underlying hostage-taking.

Almost.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Being pro-choice is more than being pro-abortion..

Those that are really pro-choice will want women to have real choices when it comes to this subject.

Now the far left is ok with abortion being used as birth control and some women do use it as such.

Verify and prove, or STFU.

 

[nodoginnafight]

There is more scientific evidence that supports the "fetus is a human being" than there is to support the notion that it is not. It's just more convenient to think of him or her as something else when you want to kill it.

My definition would be when the fetus begins showing characteristics that are uniquely human. And I'm not exactly sure when that is, but that is when I would advocate extending legal protection.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Part of the problem with abortion is we call it abortion. "Abortion" is an easy word to support. "Bashing your baby's head against the ground" isn't. Call things what they are and it's harder to support or not different things.

OK, call it pregnancy termination. I feel better already.

Like mine better. More simplistic and honest.

 

[EatMorChikin]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Every time someone says they are pro-life, it has become de rigueur to toss out this question.

This "rape and incest" tactic uses the victims of rape and incest as human shields to protect the more than 98 percent of abortions that have nothing to do with rape or incest. This is a sickening strategem which has become so reflexive, it has almost become disconnected from the underlying hostage-taking.

Almost.

Find anywhere that I mentioned I was pro life. I'm a conservative, but I am not a religious conservative.

 

[g5000]

That's very true. A woman who is faced with something she cannot financially or emotionally manage is going to get an abortion, especially if the sperm donor is MIA, which happens a lot. That is ALWAYS THE MISSING PIECE IN THESE ARGUMENTS. Many times the man/boy bolts.

I see. Financial distress is a good excuse to kill.

"Sorry, Ma. I can't afford to put you in a nursing home."

"Sorry, Junior. Your treatments for retardation after your car accident are just too stiff."

There will be people who "know" of doctors who perform the procedure. It will be a huge underground industry much like it was before Roe v. Wade.

There's that blackmail again.

Go ahead and tell us those fairy stories about women dying by the thousands in back alleys.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Good questions.
As for rape, I have a hard time punishing the child for the crime. And I have heard some truly uplifting stories about women who carried "rape babies" to term and they are truly inspiring and amazing women. I have a hard time requiring that kind of torment by law. I would allow abortion in that case.

As for incest - we talking about two consenting adults, so I am less inclined to allow abortion in that case. But the couple should be held fully accountable for the care of any orc such a union produces.

No incest is not always 2 consenting adults. Sometimes it is a sicko father manipulating his daughter to hop in the sack with him. Some might call that rape, but I don't. It might be worse, but it isn't rape.

If the girl is under age - it is rape.
If she is not - then that is two consenting adults.

That is where we disagree a bit. Just because one is underage doesn't make it rape imo. But again, coercive incest is just as bad as rape. When I was 18 -20 I had a few GFs who were under 18, that didn't make me a rapist, even tho they try and label that as such. Depends on the state you are in. There are states where 14 is age of consent, and I will never be moving my daughter to such a place ha.

I don't mean to be argumentative or hostile. But I believe that an underage girl is legally not capable of consent. So having sex with that underage person IS rape. And I believe the law backs me up on that.

 

[g5000]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Every time someone says they are pro-life, it has become de rigueur to toss out this question.

This "rape and incest" tactic uses the victims of rape and incest as human shields to protect the more than 98 percent of abortions that have nothing to do with rape or incest. This is a sickening strategem which has become so reflexive, it has almost become disconnected from the underlying hostage-taking.

Almost.

Find anywhere that I mentioned I was pro life.

You misunderstand me. The "rape and incest" question is a favorite of the pro-choice crowd.

It invariably comes up in every abortion topic, and reporters never fail to ask it of pro-life politicians.

 

[g5000]

I don't mean to be argumentative or hostile. But I believe that an underage girl is legally not capable of consent. So having sex with that underage person IS rape. And I believe the law backs me up on that.

It does.

 

[BlindBoo]

Because not everybody believes what you believe.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I am a Christian - but I am a Christian who believes in the separation of Church and state.

My opposition to abortion stems from a legal position that a fetus is a human being who should be entitled to protection under our law.

How about rape and incest?

Every time someone says they are pro-life, it has become de rigueur to toss out this question.

This "rape and incest" tactic uses the victims of rape and incest as human shields to protect the more than 98 percent of abortions that have nothing to do with rape or incest. This is a sickening strategem which has become so reflexive, it has almost become disconnected from the underlying hostage-taking.

Almost.

Find anywhere that I mentioned I was pro life. I'm a conservative, but I am not a religious conservative.

You don't have to be religious to recognize the duty of the law to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

[g5000]

Because not everybody believes what you believe.

Yep. There are people walking around who think it is okay to murder other people. Lynch a negro? Why should THAT be illegal?

It is still murder, despite what they believe.

Just so with abortion. It is murder, despite what some people believe.

 

[EatMorChikin]

I don't mean to be argumentative or hostile. But I believe that an underage girl is legally not capable of consent. So having sex with that underage person IS rape. And I believe the law backs me up on that.

I'm not taking it as hostile, this is a place for debate no?

But some states disagree, and females often mature earlier than males.So an 18 year old male and a 16 year old female I don't really see a problem. Of course I am biased, because I have been there. But there were times where the female was pretty aggressive in getting me into the hay, that is not me raping anyone. And human nature makes it pretty impossible to say no ha.