Why Don’t Catholics Baptize Fetuses?

[guno]

The Vatican insists that life begins at conception, while it also insists that salvation is impossible without baptism. This latter point—that entry into heaven hinges on the sacrament of baptism—is not a meaningless theological technicality but a central tenet of the catholic church. As such, the conclusion here for believers is inescapable. For nine months, from conception to birth, fetuses are at risk of falling into an eternal abyss should they suffer the misfortune of miscarriage, complications in delivery, or some other fatal outcome.

Given this conclusion, it’s hard to find the logic in waiting until after birth for baptism. If Mom and Dad get loose after the Knights of Columbus Christmas party and conceive a baby, how does the church justify giving the fetus no chance at paradise until Father O’Malley baptizes it as a newborn the following autumn? Those nine months in the womb are extremely volatile, ending with a trip down the birth canal that statistically might be the child’s most dangerous journey until he or she turns sixteen and starts driving.

if eternity’s at stake, it’s difficult to understand why any believing Catholic would wait, as most do, even a few weeks after birth to baptize their baby. At a minimum, one would expect Catholic parents—even in an uncomplicated pregnancy with an apparently healthy infant—to have a priest waiting in the delivery room to secure the eventual passage to heaven.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

It's difficult to dump water on their heads when they're inside.

 

[Fenton Lum]

All male dominator god religions are systems of authority having nothing at all to do with spirituality. That concept of original sin; the human being is phucked, just for getting here. Ya gotta fear your god, gotta fear your lucifer, someone else sets up rules to determine whether you'll be "saved" or not. And all 3 of the male dominator god religions that were vomited from the middle east had to be spread through violence and oppression.

Pass.

 

[Fenton Lum]

It's difficult to dump water on their heads when they're inside.

And that's all it is really, dumping water. Like water boarding kinda.

 

[norwegen]

Most baptismal pools don't fit through the birth canal.

 

[Meriweather]

The Vatican insists that life begins at conception, while it also insists that salvation is impossible without baptism. This latter point—that entry into heaven hinges on the sacrament of baptism—is not a meaningless theological technicality but a central tenet of the catholic church. As such, the conclusion here for believers is inescapable. For nine months, from conception to birth, fetuses are at risk of falling into an eternal abyss should they suffer the misfortune of miscarriage, complications in delivery, or some other fatal outcome.

Given this conclusion, it’s hard to find the logic in waiting until after birth for baptism. If Mom and Dad get loose after the Knights of Columbus Christmas party and conceive a baby, how does the church justify giving the fetus no chance at paradise until Father O’Malley baptizes it as a newborn the following autumn? Those nine months in the womb are extremely volatile, ending with a trip down the birth canal that statistically might be the child’s most dangerous journey until he or she turns sixteen and starts driving.

if eternity’s at stake, it’s difficult to understand why any believing Catholic would wait, as most do, even a few weeks after birth to baptize their baby. At a minimum, one would expect Catholic parents—even in an uncomplicated pregnancy with an apparently healthy infant—to have a priest waiting in the delivery room to secure the eventual passage to heaven.

Water baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There is Baptism by desire; also Baptism by blood (martyrdom). Those who are not baptized are entrusted to the mercy and love of God.

 

[aris2chat]

babies are baptized at one month or later

orthodox don't require baptism

 

[TheOldSchool]

It's difficult to dump water on their heads when they're inside.

Nah you could squirt some water up there.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The Vatican insists that life begins at conception, while it also insists that salvation is impossible without baptism. This latter point—that entry into heaven hinges on the sacrament of baptism—is not a meaningless theological technicality but a central tenet of the catholic church. As such, the conclusion here for believers is inescapable. For nine months, from conception to birth, fetuses are at risk of falling into an eternal abyss should they suffer the misfortune of miscarriage, complications in delivery, or some other fatal outcome.

Given this conclusion, it’s hard to find the logic in waiting until after birth for baptism. If Mom and Dad get loose after the Knights of Columbus Christmas party and conceive a baby, how does the church justify giving the fetus no chance at paradise until Father O’Malley baptizes it as a newborn the following autumn? Those nine months in the womb are extremely volatile, ending with a trip down the birth canal that statistically might be the child’s most dangerous journey until he or she turns sixteen and starts driving.

if eternity’s at stake, it’s difficult to understand why any believing Catholic would wait, as most do, even a few weeks after birth to baptize their baby. At a minimum, one would expect Catholic parents—even in an uncomplicated pregnancy with an apparently healthy infant—to have a priest waiting in the delivery room to secure the eventual passage to heaven.

Water baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There is Baptism by desire; also Baptism by blood (martyrdom). Those who are not baptized are entrusted to the mercy and love of God.

Neither of those are as cool as baptism by fire

 

[onefour1]

First off the Catholics should not be baptizing little children until they reach the year of accountability. They are innocent in the eyes of God. Likewise, what sins have a fetus committed? They also need no baptism but are all alive in Christ.

 

[RWNJ]

The Vatican insists that life begins at conception, while it also insists that salvation is impossible without baptism. This latter point—that entry into heaven hinges on the sacrament of baptism—is not a meaningless theological technicality but a central tenet of the catholic church. As such, the conclusion here for believers is inescapable. For nine months, from conception to birth, fetuses are at risk of falling into an eternal abyss should they suffer the misfortune of miscarriage, complications in delivery, or some other fatal outcome.

Given this conclusion, it’s hard to find the logic in waiting until after birth for baptism. If Mom and Dad get loose after the Knights of Columbus Christmas party and conceive a baby, how does the church justify giving the fetus no chance at paradise until Father O’Malley baptizes it as a newborn the following autumn? Those nine months in the womb are extremely volatile, ending with a trip down the birth canal that statistically might be the child’s most dangerous journey until he or she turns sixteen and starts driving.

if eternity’s at stake, it’s difficult to understand why any believing Catholic would wait, as most do, even a few weeks after birth to baptize their baby. At a minimum, one would expect Catholic parents—even in an uncomplicated pregnancy with an apparently healthy infant—to have a priest waiting in the delivery room to secure the eventual passage to heaven.

Because they're idiots.

 

[aris2chat]

Vatican used to permit abortions till 17th C.
The idea of life at conceptions is fabricated later. Suggestion didn't even come up till 808 CE, doctrine at Vatican II
Man made ruling not even biblical
more ways to put women down and control them, men can be such cowards at times.
Vatican views death as better than rape but won't allow the spawn of rape to be aborted? The women should have just died, but the rapist's seed should live?
?????

 

[Meriweather]

Vatican used to permit abortions till 17th C.
The idea of life at conceptions is fabricated later. Suggestion didn't even come up till 808 CE, doctrine at Vatican II
Man made ruling not even biblical
more ways to put women down and control them, men can be such cowards at times.
Vatican views death as better than rape but won't allow the spawn of rape to be aborted? The women should have just died, but the rapist's seed should live?
?????

No, the Church never permitted abortions. The Didache (the teachings of the Twelve Apostles, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) written record (50-70 AD) of the Church teaches:

2 Now, this is the way of life:…


The second commandment of the Teaching: "Do not murder; do not commit adultery"; do not corrupt boys; do not fornicate; "do not steal"; do not practice magic; do not go in for sorcery; do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant. "Do not covet your neighbor's property; do not commit perjury; do not bear false witness"; do not slander; do not bear grudges. Do not be double-minded or double-tongued, for a double tongue is "a deadly snare." Your words shall not be dishonest or hollow, but substantiated by action. Do not be greedy or extortionate or hypocritical or malicious or arrogant. Do not plot against your neighbor. Do not hate anybody; but reprove some, pray for others, and still others love more than your own life.

Barnabus, an early Church Father (lived between 70-138) wrote:

You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay the child by abortion.

Tertullian (lived between 155-240)

For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb, while yet the mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder. It makes no difference whether one takes away the life once born or destroys it as it comes to birth. He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed.

That the Church ever permitted abortion is a lie contrived by modern pro-abortionists. Those who had (or taught) abortion were going against Church teaching. Neither the Vatican or any Pope condoned abortion.

 

[Meriweather]

First off the Catholics should not be baptizing little children until they reach the year of accountability. They are innocent in the eyes of God. Likewise, what sins have a fetus committed? They also need no baptism but are all alive in Christ.

Your thought is not Catholic thought.

One of the primary difference between Catholics and some non-Catholic Christians, is that some sects of Christianity teach salvation as a heavenly afterlife.

Catholicism teaches salvation as a way of life that leads to a heavenly afterlife. When a child born into a Catholic family is baptized, it is the initiation into a life lived in the way of salvation. They will be taught to turn away from fallen man's predilections to sin, and live in the obedience to the will of God. It is the initiation into a life of freedom versus a life of slavery. The Holy Spirit is invited to come upon the child's life; the child is welcomed as a full-fledged member of the Body of Christ.

Western Catholicism does wait until children are seven before they receive communion; they wait until children are in their teens before they are Confirmed in the faith. Eastern Catholicism teaches that when a baby is baptized, it will also be Confirmed in the faith, and he/she is also given communion.

 

[aris2chat]

Vatican used to permit abortions till 17th C.
The idea of life at conceptions is fabricated later. Suggestion didn't even come up till 808 CE, doctrine at Vatican II
Man made ruling not even biblical
more ways to put women down and control them, men can be such cowards at times.
Vatican views death as better than rape but won't allow the spawn of rape to be aborted? The women should have just died, but the rapist's seed should live?
?????

No, the Church never permitted abortions. The Didache (the teachings of the Twelve Apostles, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) written record (50-70 AD) of the Church teaches:

2 Now, this is the way of life:…


The second commandment of the Teaching: "Do not murder; do not commit adultery"; do not corrupt boys; do not fornicate; "do not steal"; do not practice magic; do not go in for sorcery; do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant. "Do not covet your neighbor's property; do not commit perjury; do not bear false witness"; do not slander; do not bear grudges. Do not be double-minded or double-tongued, for a double tongue is "a deadly snare." Your words shall not be dishonest or hollow, but substantiated by action. Do not be greedy or extortionate or hypocritical or malicious or arrogant. Do not plot against your neighbor. Do not hate anybody; but reprove some, pray for others, and still others love more than your own life.

Barnabus, an early Church Father (lived between 70-138) wrote:

You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay the child by abortion.

Tertullian (lived between 155-240)

For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb, while yet the mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder. It makes no difference whether one takes away the life once born or destroys it as it comes to birth. He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed.

That the Church ever permitted abortion is a lie contrived by modern pro-abortionists. Those who had (or taught) abortion were going against Church teaching. Neither the Vatican or any Pope condoned abortion.

>>
Augustine believed that an early abortion is not murder because, according to the Aristotelian concept of delayed ensoulment, the soul of a fetus at an early stage is not present, a belief that passed into canon law.[21][22] Nonetheless, he harshly condemned the procedure: "Sometimes, indeed, this lustful cruelty, or if you please, cruel lust, resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness; or else, if unsuccessful in this, to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous to birth, preferring that its offspring should rather perish than receive vitality; or if it was advancing to life within the womb, should be slain before it was born."(De Nube et Concupiscentia 1.17 (15))

Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, and Pope Gregory XIV also believed that a fetus does not have a soul until "quickening," or when the fetus begins to kick and move, and therefore early abortion was not murder, though later abortion was.[10][21]<<

 

[RWNJ]

Vatican used to permit abortions till 17th C.
The idea of life at conceptions is fabricated later. Suggestion didn't even come up till 808 CE, doctrine at Vatican II
Man made ruling not even biblical
more ways to put women down and control them, men can be such cowards at times.
Vatican views death as better than rape but won't allow the spawn of rape to be aborted? The women should have just died, but the rapist's seed should live?
?????

No, the Church never permitted abortions. The Didache (the teachings of the Twelve Apostles, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) written record (50-70 AD) of the Church teaches:

2 Now, this is the way of life:…


The second commandment of the Teaching: "Do not murder; do not commit adultery"; do not corrupt boys; do not fornicate; "do not steal"; do not practice magic; do not go in for sorcery; do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant. "Do not covet your neighbor's property; do not commit perjury; do not bear false witness"; do not slander; do not bear grudges. Do not be double-minded or double-tongued, for a double tongue is "a deadly snare." Your words shall not be dishonest or hollow, but substantiated by action. Do not be greedy or extortionate or hypocritical or malicious or arrogant. Do not plot against your neighbor. Do not hate anybody; but reprove some, pray for others, and still others love more than your own life.

Barnabus, an early Church Father (lived between 70-138) wrote:

You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay the child by abortion.

Tertullian (lived between 155-240)

For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb, while yet the mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder. It makes no difference whether one takes away the life once born or destroys it as it comes to birth. He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed.

That the Church ever permitted abortion is a lie contrived by modern pro-abortionists. Those who had (or taught) abortion were going against Church teaching. Neither the Vatican or any Pope condoned abortion.

>>
Augustine believed that an early abortion is not murder because, according to the Aristotelian concept of delayed ensoulment, the soul of a fetus at an early stage is not present, a belief that passed into canon law.[21][22] Nonetheless, he harshly condemned the procedure: "Sometimes, indeed, this lustful cruelty, or if you please, cruel lust, resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness; or else, if unsuccessful in this, to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous to birth, preferring that its offspring should rather perish than receive vitality; or if it was advancing to life within the womb, should be slain before it was born."(De Nube et Concupiscentia 1.17 (15))

Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, and Pope Gregory XIV also believed that a fetus does not have a soul until "quickening," or when the fetus begins to kick and move, and therefore early abortion was not murder, though later abortion was.[10][21]<<

God said that before we were formed in our mothers womb, He knew us. What does that tell you?

 

[Meriweather]

>>
Augustine believed that an early abortion is not murder because, according to the Aristotelian concept of delayed ensoulment, the soul of a fetus at an early stage is not present, a belief that passed into canon law.[21][22] Nonetheless, he harshly condemned the procedure: "Sometimes, indeed, this lustful cruelty, or if you please, cruel lust, resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness; or else, if unsuccessful in this, to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous to birth, preferring that its offspring should rather perish than receive vitality; or if it was advancing to life within the womb, should be slain before it was born."(De Nube et Concupiscentia 1.17 (15))

Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, and Pope Gregory XIV also believed that a fetus does not have a soul until "quickening," or when the fetus begins to kick and move, and therefore early abortion was not murder, though later abortion was.[10][21]<<

You are quoting pro-abortion propaganda that has been disproven. While discussion did take place when a soul became animated, the Church never approved abortion before "quickening" or animation.

 

[RWNJ]

The Vatican insists that life begins at conception, while it also insists that salvation is impossible without baptism. This latter point—that entry into heaven hinges on the sacrament of baptism—is not a meaningless theological technicality but a central tenet of the catholic church. As such, the conclusion here for believers is inescapable. For nine months, from conception to birth, fetuses are at risk of falling into an eternal abyss should they suffer the misfortune of miscarriage, complications in delivery, or some other fatal outcome.

Given this conclusion, it’s hard to find the logic in waiting until after birth for baptism. If Mom and Dad get loose after the Knights of Columbus Christmas party and conceive a baby, how does the church justify giving the fetus no chance at paradise until Father O’Malley baptizes it as a newborn the following autumn? Those nine months in the womb are extremely volatile, ending with a trip down the birth canal that statistically might be the child’s most dangerous journey until he or she turns sixteen and starts driving.

if eternity’s at stake, it’s difficult to understand why any believing Catholic would wait, as most do, even a few weeks after birth to baptize their baby. At a minimum, one would expect Catholic parents—even in an uncomplicated pregnancy with an apparently healthy infant—to have a priest waiting in the delivery room to secure the eventual passage to heaven.

Because they're idiots.

I misread the question. I thought it asked why they DID baptize fetuses. They do, btw. At least I think I read something about that.

 

[Granny]

I think the situation of death of an infant before baptism is called limbo - neither heaven nor hell ... Catholics generally christen infants very quickly after birth and they are given god-parents. There is another rite at an older age when they take first communion.

 

[aris2chat]

Vatican used to permit abortions till 17th C.
The idea of life at conceptions is fabricated later. Suggestion didn't even come up till 808 CE, doctrine at Vatican II
Man made ruling not even biblical
more ways to put women down and control them, men can be such cowards at times.
Vatican views death as better than rape but won't allow the spawn of rape to be aborted? The women should have just died, but the rapist's seed should live?
?????

No, the Church never permitted abortions. The Didache (the teachings of the Twelve Apostles, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) written record (50-70 AD) of the Church teaches:

2 Now, this is the way of life:…


The second commandment of the Teaching: "Do not murder; do not commit adultery"; do not corrupt boys; do not fornicate; "do not steal"; do not practice magic; do not go in for sorcery; do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant. "Do not covet your neighbor's property; do not commit perjury; do not bear false witness"; do not slander; do not bear grudges. Do not be double-minded or double-tongued, for a double tongue is "a deadly snare." Your words shall not be dishonest or hollow, but substantiated by action. Do not be greedy or extortionate or hypocritical or malicious or arrogant. Do not plot against your neighbor. Do not hate anybody; but reprove some, pray for others, and still others love more than your own life.

Barnabus, an early Church Father (lived between 70-138) wrote:

You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay the child by abortion.

Tertullian (lived between 155-240)

For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb, while yet the mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder. It makes no difference whether one takes away the life once born or destroys it as it comes to birth. He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed.

That the Church ever permitted abortion is a lie contrived by modern pro-abortionists. Those who had (or taught) abortion were going against Church teaching. Neither the Vatican or any Pope condoned abortion.

>>
Augustine believed that an early abortion is not murder because, according to the Aristotelian concept of delayed ensoulment, the soul of a fetus at an early stage is not present, a belief that passed into canon law.[21][22] Nonetheless, he harshly condemned the procedure: "Sometimes, indeed, this lustful cruelty, or if you please, cruel lust, resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness; or else, if unsuccessful in this, to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous to birth, preferring that its offspring should rather perish than receive vitality; or if it was advancing to life within the womb, should be slain before it was born."(De Nube et Concupiscentia 1.17 (15))

Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, and Pope Gregory XIV also believed that a fetus does not have a soul until "quickening," or when the fetus begins to kick and move, and therefore early abortion was not murder, though later abortion was.[10][21]<<

God said that before we were formed in our mothers womb, He knew us. What does that tell you?

religion is written by "men" not god

Ten commandment, the closest thing to god written, says nothing about abortion, early or late. Says nothing about baptism. Says nothing about when life begins.

Women are now forgiven for having an abortions, it is a hard decision for the women, but her life and her needs comes first.

Other countries, even the most religious, with the exceptions of some south american countries permit abortions, including italy.

If you object to abortions, don't have one. You don't get to speak to all the women out their of any faith about her body.

The fact that constitutionally a woman has the right to choose mean you can't interfere. Her freedom, her rights, her privacy, her body.

Your faith applies to you, not the country or every other woman, even women in your church. None of your business.

13th C Pope John XXI wrote a book on medicine for the poor including "how to" on birth control and abortions, Thesaurus Pauperum. It also included the use of cannabis.