Why does the Rightwing Conservatives Hate Unions?

[SFC Ollie]

Charles is invoking the Big Lie.

Union membership has gone from 36% in 1954 to 11.9% today.

The jobs went overseas as union membership shrank by two thirds.

Fewer unions means fewer jobs.

Union membership sank because they negotiated themselves right out of jobs.

This is laughable.

No, management moved the jobs overseas where desperate people will work for pennies an hour.

Exactly, because your precious unions wanted so much the companies couldn't pay it and still make a profit. This is not rocket science. I mean I'm sorry but the guy sweeping the floor is not worth $27 an hour. And a guy on an assembly line pushing a button is not worth $36 an hour. But I don't expect you to understand this.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

Most people with a little common sense hates anything that is wasteful and tends to lead to uselessness. But if you like your money going to line the pockets of the union elites more power to you. I had a chance to change professions a couple of weeks ago, to work for Norfolk southern railroad, they're union I turned them down because of that.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Because they are out of control and are not working with business to be sustainable.

Like the unions at Ford Motor Company?

One strike away from being sunk themselves. that's all it takes.

Actually Ford just made a deal with a Russian company to make Fords in Russia.

Solla I believe was the name.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Like the unions at Ford Motor Company?

One strike away from being sunk themselves. that's all it takes.

Actually Ford just made a deal with a Russian company to make Fords in Russia.

Solla I believe was the name.

It's time to face the facts. America has stopped being a Country that produces. That happen when we came into the computer age. Not to many kids from the younger generation wants to work with their hands.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Exactly. The right wingers hate labor (and by extension those who fight for the working person's rights/compensation, liberals). Labor unions turn-out LOTS of Dems at the polls, something they're WELL aware of.

so are you saying if the Republicans break up the Unions....these people will no longer vote?.....or are you saying they wont vote because WITHOUT the Union,they wont know who to vote for?.....which one do we got here?....

You are suggesting a false dilemma here, of course, Harry Dresden, but you do, in my opinion, understand so much than the JROCs, who have no clue at all. The citizens will vote against the GOP. They will know who exactly to vote against if the GOP deserts populism and the working yoik.

This is what will happen. The Democratic senators from WI will hold a public press conference with armed security and Illinois SP to keep WI LEO out of Illinois. They will make known to the world that a reduction of wages and benefits is on the table for the WI GOP to consider. They will flatly refuse to allow the GOP to restrict collective bargaining in WI. Walker may well refuse. If that happens, the government unions will shut down state government, then see if the people support them.

 

[Stephanie]

Charles is invoking the Big Lie.

Union membership has gone from 36% in 1954 to 11.9% today.

The jobs went overseas as union membership shrank by two thirds.

Fewer unions means fewer jobs.

Because they are out of control and are not working with business to be sustainable.

You mean by demanding a livable wage and benefits?

livable wage.?
who the hell DECIDES WHAT that is?

 

[Harry Dresden]

ok i will ask you....so far no one who has said this that i have asked has given me an answer.....if they have point it out cause i missed it......Kaz ...WHY NOT?.....does the Government treat their workers any better than the private sector?.....do they adhere to the rules and regulations of the work place any better?......are workers treated with such respect that they just cant wait to get to work every day?.......and dont get me wrong i understand about the financial part....but when you say what you said....thats like your saying that no Govt Employee needs a Union because Govt. Supervisors are just the most Respectful Humane Supervisors in the Country...

My statement has nothing to do with that. I oppose government unions for the following reasons:

1) And this is the big one, there is no market force in negotiations. The politicians/bureaucrats aren't spending their own money, they are spending ours. Government isn't competing with other governments either. When management of a company doesn't treat it's employees fairly or pay them fairly, they lose to their competition. If they give them too much money, the company also goes into financial trouble. There are no market forces at play.

2) Government jobs aren't subject to market forces either. They are very secure. There are some rare, limited layoffs, but they are very few and far between.

3) When people work for the government, they are supposed to serve the public. All the greedy bastards in Wisconsin are proving is they are already overpaid, have too many benefits (far exceeding the private sector) and it's not enough, they want more.

When you combine them, government unions are screwing the taxpayer and bureaucrats not being in competitive markets aren't protecting the taxpayers. And the financial state of almost every State in the US proves what I'm saying is true.

So now, someone has answered your question.

no you did not.....you answered the financial part which i said i understand.....you did not even touch upon what i asked about.....how people are treated and working conditions......as a matter of fact you said to start off....."My statement has nothing to do with that"......why?.....so if you happen to work for the Govt you have to put up with being treated like shit?.....there is a reason some postal employees shot up a few Post Offices.....and it had nothing to do with pay or benefits...most of it had to do with how they were treated at work.....i have worked for a few pretty fucked individuals in my 31 years in the PO...

 

[kaz]

ok i will ask you....so far no one who has said this that i have asked has given me an answer.....if they have point it out cause i missed it......Kaz ...WHY NOT?.....does the Government treat their workers any better than the private sector?.....do they adhere to the rules and regulations of the work place any better?......are workers treated with such respect that they just cant wait to get to work every day?.......and dont get me wrong i understand about the financial part....but when you say what you said....thats like your saying that no Govt Employee needs a Union because Govt. Supervisors are just the most Respectful Humane Supervisors in the Country...

My statement has nothing to do with that. I oppose government unions for the following reasons:

1) And this is the big one, there is no market force in negotiations. The politicians/bureaucrats aren't spending their own money, they are spending ours. Government isn't competing with other governments either. When management of a company doesn't treat it's employees fairly or pay them fairly, they lose to their competition. If they give them too much money, the company also goes into financial trouble. There are no market forces at play.

2) Government jobs aren't subject to market forces either. They are very secure. There are some rare, limited layoffs, but they are very few and far between.

3) When people work for the government, they are supposed to serve the public. All the greedy bastards in Wisconsin are proving is they are already overpaid, have too many benefits (far exceeding the private sector) and it's not enough, they want more.

When you combine them, government unions are screwing the taxpayer and bureaucrats not being in competitive markets aren't protecting the taxpayers. And the financial state of almost every State in the US proves what I'm saying is true.

So now, someone has answered your question.

no you did not.....you answered the financial part which i said i understand.....you did not even touch upon what i asked about.....how people are treated and working conditions......as a matter of fact you said to start off....."My statement has nothing to do with that"......why?.....so if you happen to work for the Govt you have to put up with being treated like shit?.....there is a reason some postal employees shot up a few Post Offices.....and it had nothing to do with pay or benefits...most of it had to do with how they were treated at work.....i have worked for a few pretty fucked individuals in my 31 years in the PO...

OK, the answer to your question is the same though. Free markets. When you chose to work for an employer who has no competition by law, you should look before you leap. Why do you work for an employer who treats you that way? There is no way the public should be:

- Denied choice (in this case postal competition) by the force of government guns
- Subject to Unions demanding unreasonable wages and benefits when the public is not represented at the table to negotiate

If you want Post Office Unions, then the post office should be removed from government control and government eliminated competition. If it's not, then YOU have a choice to work for them or not. But you should not be able to unionize and then have government bureaucrats write checks that they don't have to pay, the public does, and they have no ramifications for because they still have no competition, government gun enforced.

Again, government unions are on the path of bankrupting almost every State this country. I'm not making some sort of theoretical libertarian argument.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Charles is invoking the Big Lie.

Union membership has gone from 36% in 1954 to 11.9% today.

The jobs went overseas as union membership shrank by two thirds.

Fewer unions means fewer jobs.

Union membership sank because they negotiated themselves right out of jobs.

This is laughable.

No, management moved the jobs overseas where desperate people will work for pennies an hour.

the only thing laughable is you asshole.....keep dancing past the questions put to ya Chris.....after all you have reputation to adhere to...

 

[skookerasbil]

The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.

It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.

Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.

So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.

So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?

Check out this video of Chris Christie on unions in Jersey................

THE ONLY people who can argue against what he is saying are total mental cases. Of course, Shintao is a fringe mental case..............

NJ Gov. Chris Christie Whacks Teachers Union On "Morning Joe" - THE DAILY RIFF - Be Smarter. About Education.

 

[mudwhistle]

Exactly. The right wingers hate labor (and by extension those who fight for the working person's rights/compensation, liberals). Labor unions turn-out LOTS of Dems at the polls, something they're WELL aware of.

so are you saying if the Republicans break up the Unions....these people will no longer vote?.....or are you saying they wont vote because WITHOUT the Union,they wont know who to vote for?.....which one do we got here?....

You are suggesting a false dilemma here, of course, Harry Dresden, but you do, in my opinion, understand so much than the JROCs, who have no clue at all. The citizens will vote against the GOP. They will know who exactly to vote against if the GOP deserts populism and the working yoik.

This is what will happen. The Democratic senators from WI will hold a public press conference with armed security and Illinois SP to keep WI LEO out of Illinois. They will make known to the world that a reduction of wages and benefits is on the table for the WI GOP to consider. They will flatly refuse to allow the GOP to restrict collective bargaining in WI. Walker may well refuse. If that happens, the government unions will shut down state government, then see if the people support them.

What is the purpose of collective bargaining? Mostly what the unions have been using it for is to drive up wages and increase benefits. Now it's at the point where the state cannot afford the massive debt it's causing. Each employee has health coverage that costs the state $22,000 a year. They can't afford that anymore because they're broke. They want the union members to pitch in like everyone in the private sector does.

So they have a choice. Ether cut back on their agreement and pay a little into their health care program like everyone else, or the state has to lay off at least 5000 teachers and school employees. It sounds fair, but the unions aren't interested in fairness.

The unions decided to disregard the options and are currently holding an illegal walkout. Many of them are having doctors write phony letters claiming illnesses so they can skip out from teaching.

My response if I was Governor would be to fire anyone who is calling in sick without an illness. Let them collect unemployment.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If the Right was in power in this country, the corporations would pretty much control everything.

The Right would destroy unionism, get rid of the minimum wage, allow Corporations to put as much money as they pleased into getting the people they wanted elected.

The Right would destroy as much regulation and restriction on the Corporations as they could; corporate supported conservatives dominating the government would be able to do so. Workers' rights would disappear, because there would be no ability of the advocates of workers' rights to get people elected.

That is the conservative vision for America. A country run by Corporate America.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For me, as a conservative it is not about Hating Unions. That is just a left wing lie meant to inflame people.

It is about understanding that in some cases Unions Over reach. In their pursuit of getting everything the worker wants, they lose site of the fact that Business must remain Profitable.

I also am troubled by the ties between labor and 1 political Party in this country.

Everyone understands that Organized Labor has a place, and played(plays) and important role in America, However the open minded have to recognize that to much of a good thing is not good.

A big part of the sucking sound of US jobs going over seas can be blamed on Union Demands.

A balance must be found.

The problem of Over reaching Unions, who do not care about the Effects their Demands will have on Profitability are child's play. Compared to the problems with Public Sector Unions. With their Alliance with the Democrat Party, and the lack of Profit Motivation of the Government people negotiating with them. Has lead to ridicules unrealistic and unsustainable Contracts for Public Sector Employees.

It is not heartless and Evil to recognize that, it is for the Greater good that we must.

Charles is invoking the Big Lie.

Union membership has gone from 36% in 1954 to 11.9% today.

The jobs went overseas as union membership shrank by two thirds.

Fewer unions means fewer jobs.

Because they are out of control and are not working with business to be sustainable.

When the workers in foreign factories make 30 cents an hour building products that are shipped directly to the U.S.,

how much would an American have to work for to build the same product here,

for that business to be 'sustainable'?

 

[Big Fitz]

Charles is invoking the Big Lie.

Union membership has gone from 36% in 1954 to 11.9% today.

The jobs went overseas as union membership shrank by two thirds.

Fewer unions means fewer jobs.

Because they are out of control and are not working with business to be sustainable.

When the workers in foreign factories make 30 cents an hour building products that are shipped directly to the U.S.,

how much would an American have to work for to build the same product here,

for that business to be 'sustainable'?

Blame the supporters of NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, Privileged trade with China and every free trade agreement we have with a nation that unfairly suppresses workers, or subsidizes industry to undercut ours.

Civilization has a cost as I keep saying. If you open your doors to a nation that has a great disparity of cultural costs like we have with China and India and Mexico, where the cost of living is so much lower and workers are not compensated fairly as compared to our own standards, not to mention government interference and protectionism in the market, you must expect this to happen as it is your own fault.

So what's the answer?

1. Trade barriers between the US and other nations that 'unfairly' compete.
Consequence: Prices go up all over, but unemployment goes down as companies and unions are protected from unfair competition. Possible trade war and other problems that hurt the consumer, like other nations closing off their markets.

2. Tariffs and duties on imports equal to SOME of the disparity between US owned and run industries based on amount of unfair cultural and governmental advantage.
Consequence: Trade war and repercussions blocking access from US goods forcing a glut on domestic markets driving down prices and weakening the domestic industry from protected increased costs with reduced income. This can also include 'counter' government protection where tariffs and duties offset unfair advantage given to nation by an industry in which to be unfairly competitive in foreign markets (like devalued currency, tax subsidies, slave labor)

3. Allow free trade with our allies.
Consequence: Cheap goods from abroad ships US capital to other nations who are willing to trade and on friendly terms (in theory). Downside is destruction to domestic industry who can't compete with lower (culturally/artificially created) prices to goods, causing unemployment and reduced domestic industrial capacity. Reduced tax/duty revenue to government. Reduction in smuggling of legal goods to avoid taxation from those nations

4. Global free trade allowed.
Consequence: Domestic industry goes to the cheapest foreign markets quickly, causing much unemployment and shrinkage in the US economy. This is offset by much cheaper goods coming to the US that may or may not meet US quality. US must decline economically to trend more towards the global average in lifestyle and cost willingly or by collapse. This will continue till the US is no longer the top market and then it will slow as it's dominance decreases and others who have gained from our decline will take over dominance of the market. If they do not proscribe to free trade, the US will be hard pressed to recover using foreign trade till it shuts the door on global goods, causing another trade war harming consumers.

So you can see, all the options suck, but protectionism, to some degree or another MUST be used based on maintaining our cultural values and standard of living. If you don't care about such things, we can have free trade for a while, and then decline to the level of France or Lichtenstein or South Africa, but rebounding in a world that understands economic warfare will be almost impossible to rebound from.

 

[Stephanie]

Here they go people. This isn't over some teacher's wages in Wisconsin, it's an opportunity for them to stir up shit..be careful.

Get ready: SEIU’s Purple Army nationwide protest schedule; teachers’ unions pressure members to show “solidarity”
By Michelle Malkin • February 20, 2011 12:54 AM

Attention, taxpayers and Tea Party activists. The Purple Army is coming to your town. Don’t let these Big Labor goons monopolize the protest square like they monopolize government workers.

Here’s there current schedule over the next four days nationwide via the SEIU website. All hands on deck:

2/21 – Helena, MT
2/21 – Carson City, NV
2/21 – Raleigh, NC
2/21 – Austin, TX
2/21 – Madison, WI
2/22 – Sacramento, CA
2/22 – Denver, CO
2/22 – Des Moines, IA
2/22 – Annapolis, MD
2/22 – Boston, MA
2/22 – Springfield, MA
2/22 – St. Paul, MN
2/22 – Santa Fe, NM
2/22 – Columbus OH
2/22 – Providence, RI
2/22 – Montpelier, VT
2/22 – Madison, WI
2/23 – Hartford, CT
2/23 – Atlanta, GA
2/23 – Scranton, PA
2/24 – Canton, OH

Here’s a list of events coming up in your state this week. The list will continue to grow, probably by the hour, so keep checking back in. Use the sign-up form to the right and one of our organizers will be in touch with more information about the event.


more at.
Michelle Malkin » Get ready: SEIU’s Purple Army nationwide protest schedule; teachers’ unions pressure members to show “solidarity”

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Blah blah blah.....pffffft, burp

Is it the the word 'labor' in Labor Union loading up your panties, dipshit?

You're nothing more than a useless, brainwashed water carrier for the ruling class. A useful idiot.

Fuck off.

 

[Stephanie]

here's some fine Upstanding Progressives. These teachers are taking you all to the cleaners.

 

[Chris]

Blaming the teacher's union for the destruction of the American economy is like blaming a flower for a shark attack.

It was Wall Street's derivative Ponzi scheme that ruined the American economy, not the teacher's union.

 

[Stephanie]

Commrade Pelso speaks.

Wisconsin Workers Fighting For Their Rights" (Video)
PELOSI: 'An extraordinary show of democracy in action'....Gee, that's funny. What did she say about the tea party protests against the health care bill? Was that not democracy in action? I recall her saying the tea partiers were full of hate filled rhetoric and carried swastikas...Here's more Pelosi at yesterday's presser



from..
HotAirPundit

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Mindless Dittoheads chirping in with their right wing echo chamber propaganda.

Total saps.

Go suck some CEO dick, losers.