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I disagree with the premise that firefighters, public nurses, and state park rangers are lazy slobs who are looking to rip off the tax payer and live the easy life. Wisconsin state workers, and state workers across the nation have already demonstrated over and over that they are willing to take furloughs, pay cuts, and benefits cuts to help out with state budgets. Have corporations, the Koch brothers, and wealthy people chipped in likewise, and offered to pay a few more taxes to help the budget? Aren't we all in this together? Or is it just average working people being asked to sacrifice?
I agree with the Green Bay Packers, on public workers.
Statement from Green Bay Packers on Wisconsin Public Workers
Feb. 11, 2011
We know that it is team work on and off the field that makes the Packers and Wisconsin great. As a publicly owned team we wouldn't have been able to win the Super Bowl without the support of our fans.
It is the same dedication of our public workers every day that makes Wisconsin run. They are the teachers, nurses and child care workers who take care of us and our families. But now in an unprecedented political attack Governor Walker is trying to take away their right to have a voice and bargain at work.
The right to negotiate wages and benefits is a fundamental underpinning of our middle class. When workers join together it serves as a check on corporate power and helps ALL workers by raising community standards. Wisconsin's long standing tradition of allowing public sector workers to have a voice on the job has worked for the state since the 1930s. It has created greater consistency in the relationship between labor and management and a shared approach to public work.
These public workers are Wisconsin's champions every single day and we urge the Governor and the State Legislature to not take away their rights.
-Signed
Green Bay Packers
If there's a link to that I will forever withdraw my support of the Packers. Sports teams along with other entertainers have no business sticking their noses into politics unless they are placing their names on a ballot.
I don't think I can link till I have a certain number of posts, but I might be wrong about that.
So your position is that a private citizen who sells books and does paid speaking engagements - aka, Sarah Palin - can pontificated on a labor issue, but private citizens who play sports can't?
If the Right was in power in this country, the corporations would pretty much control everything.
The Right would destroy unionism, get rid of the minimum wage, allow Corporations to put as much money as they pleased into getting the people they wanted elected.
The Right would destroy as much regulation and restriction on the Corporations as they could; corporate supported conservatives dominating the government would be able to do so. Workers' rights would disappear, because there would be no ability of the advocates of workers' rights to get people elected.
That is the conservative vision for America. A country run by Corporate America.
Blaming the teacher's union for the destruction of the American economy is like blaming a flower for a shark attack.
It was Wall Street's derivative Ponzi scheme that ruined the American economy, not the teacher's union.
Of course, the Democratic Party is not perfect. Nobody ever said it was. But the Democratic Party believes in the people. It believes in freedom and progress, and it is fighting for its beliefs right now.
In the Democratic Party, you won't find the kind of unity where everybody thinks what the boss tells him to think, and nothing else.
But you will find an overriding purpose to work for the good of mankind. And you will find a program--a concrete, realistic, and practical program that is worth believing in and fighting for.
President Harry S. Truman
If you thnk the Democrat party is the same as it was in Truman's day you are sadly mistaken
I dislike them because it often rewards the laziest employees on the backs of the hardest working with a collective group contract. If I outwork the guy next to me, I deserve more than him. In fact, I will not go on strike to save his job. If I work harder and better, my employer should reward me, not him. If a business is interested in success and being competitive, it rewards it's best workers while getting rid of it's worst workers. Common sense.
Unions go against all of the above.
Union membership sank because they negotiated themselves right out of jobs.
This is laughable.
No, management moved the jobs overseas where desperate people will work for pennies an hour.
Exactly, because your precious unions wanted so much the companies couldn't pay it and still make a profit. This is not rocket science. I mean I'm sorry but the guy sweeping the floor is not worth $27 an hour. And a guy on an assembly line pushing a button is not worth $36 an hour. But I don't expect you to understand this.
no you did not.....you answered the financial part which i said i understand.....you did not even touch upon what i asked about.....how people are treated and working conditions......as a matter of fact you said to start off....."My statement has nothing to do with that"......why?.....so if you happen to work for the Govt you have to put up with being treated like shit?.....there is a reason some postal employees shot up a few Post Offices.....and it had nothing to do with pay or benefits...most of it had to do with how they were treated at work.....i have worked for a few pretty fucked individuals in my 31 years in the PO...
OK, the answer to your question is the same though. Free markets. When you chose to work for an employer who has no competition by law, you should look before you leap. Why do you work for an employer who treats you that way? There is no way the public should be:
Denied choice (in this case postal competition) by the force of government guns
- Subject to Unions demanding unreasonable wages and benefits when the public is not represented at the table to negotiate
If you want Post Office Unions, then the post office should be removed from government control and government eliminated competition. If it's not, then YOU have a choice to work for them or not. But you should not be able to unionize and then have government bureaucrats write checks that they don't have to pay, the public does, and they have no ramifications for because they still have no competition, government gun enforced.
Again, government unions are on the path of bankrupting almost every State this country. I'm not making some sort of theoretical libertarian argument.
The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.
It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.
Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.
So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.
So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?
I hate what they have become.
A vast power source that has crushed and will crush anything and anyone that doesn't cater to it's demands.
In Ill the coal miners threatened to strike, the owners said they would not be able to sell the coal at a profit if they paid more and upped bennies, and that if they struck they would just shut down the mines.
Those idiots struck of course. and they pranced around in front of locked down mines for 3 months before it dawned on them that no one gave a fuck.
so the union used it pull to fuck over everyone else in the state by getting a ruling passed that any company that hired a miner, weather they could do the job or not would get so much money that is was still profitable for them to send the miner to college and not hire someone with the degree and know how on the spot.
So when I say unions can suck my cock b/c they are a vast source of evil. You better believe it.
This post is almost laughable.
When was the last time an energy company lost money?
And how many miners have died in the mines in the last five years?
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
And you have proof of that statement? Really? It so happens the vast majority of Americans supports PEUs.
so are you saying if the Republicans break up the Unions....these people will no longer vote?.....or are you saying they wont vote because WITHOUT the Union,they wont know who to vote for?.....which one do we got here?....
You are suggesting a false dilemma here, of course, Harry Dresden, but you do, in my opinion, understand so much than the JROCs, who have no clue at all. The citizens will vote against the GOP. They will know who exactly to vote against if the GOP deserts populism and the working yoik.
This is what will happen. The Democratic senators from WI will hold a public press conference with armed security and Illinois SP to keep WI LEO out of Illinois. They will make known to the world that a reduction of wages and benefits is on the table for the WI GOP to consider. They will flatly refuse to allow the GOP to restrict collective bargaining in WI. Walker may well refuse. If that happens, the government unions will shut down state government, then see if the people support them.
What is the purpose of collective bargaining? Mostly what the unions have been using it for is to drive up wages and increase benefits. Now it's at the point where the state cannot afford the massive debt it's causing. Each employee has health coverage that costs the state $22,000 a year. They can't afford that anymore because they're broke. They want the union members to pitch in like everyone in the private sector does.
So they have a choice. Ether cut back on their agreement and pay a little into their health care program like everyone else, or the state has to lay off at least 5000 teachers and school employees. It sounds fair, but the unions aren't interested in fairness.
The unions decided to disregard the options and are currently holding an illegal walkout. Many of them are having doctors write phony letters claiming illnesses so they can skip out from teaching.
My response if I was Governor would be to fire anyone who is calling in sick without an illness. Let them collect unemployment.
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
And you have proof of that statement? Really? It so happens the vast majority of Americans supports PEUs.
got a link to that claim?
If the Right was in power in this country, the corporations would pretty much control everything.
The Right would destroy unionism, get rid of the minimum wage, allow Corporations to put as much money as they pleased into getting the people they wanted elected.
The Right would destroy as much regulation and restriction on the Corporations as they could; corporate supported conservatives dominating the government would be able to do so. Workers' rights would disappear, because there would be no ability of the advocates of workers' rights to get people elected.
That is the conservative vision for America. A country run by Corporate America.
the Corporations are already in charge....big money has been in charge since last Century....
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
Oh, and in somewhat related news,
my governor, Andrew Cuomo, DEMOCRAT, is proposing tough cuts and sacrifices, but is doing so reasonably, and rationally, and with the decency and class you just can't get out of a REPUBLICAN governor...
...and Cuomo has a 77% APPROVAL RATING.
One more example of why conservatism is dead.
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
Yeah,
as if the Right has any less hatred for private sector unions...
...jeezus you are so full of shit.
The new troll can't tell the difference between the Private Sector and the Government.
Public Employee Unions negotiate with Career Pols who are basically on the same side of the table. Those who will pay for the excessive pay and benefits are not properly represented. It's a rigged game, bub. That's why the vast majority of taxpayers oppose public employee unions.
Teachers around here negotiate with school boards, who are elected officials.
The animosity is chilling, but never the less consistent and irritating. Maybe we could actually have a discussion without the name calling, and find out exactly what is the right cons problem with Unions.
It seems to me Unions are a role model for what Capitalism stands for. To exploit the corporation for fair living wages & benefits, in exchange for an honest days work. And to get a fair working package a negotiation takes place and a contract written explaining what each side expects from the other side (labor vs. business). Nothing is hidden.
Capitalism allows workers to negotiate their own wage & benefits as individuals or as a collective, with the idea of extracting the maximum from the employer for each hour of work performed. The employer hires as many people as he wishes, from those that will work for him, and exploits workers for the lowest wages & benefit packages he can get for his hour of labor.
So the Union member or private sector worker gives an honest days work, and the employer gives an honest days wages & benefits.
So why do rightys hate Unions? They support America and prefer capitalism?
