For a president who believes in "Trickle down economics" has failed...tell that to hourly wage workers...

[healthmyths]

It changed somewhere around 1978. It used to be

Job security
Good wages
Pensions
Social Security
Union protection
Companies didn't hire undocumented non American workers
Saving enough for retirement
Had enough to retire at 60

That's all gone. No more pensions or good paying blue collar jobs.

In 1978 workers lost our seat at the table. Unions were 35% of our work force. Today that number is closer to 10%. And in that time, the middle class has disappeared.

I love when Republicans point out that not every American took a step back. Some actually took a step forward. Yea. Their bosses. It's not just CEO pay went up. Management's wages went up by keeping workers wages down and unions out.

So with FACTS from you maybe you'd be more believable as these are the FACTS substantiated!
FACT: Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households. Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021. In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.

3. How wealth and wealth gaps vary by income

Household wealth or net worth is the value of assets owned by every member of the household minus their debt. The terms are used interchangeably in this

www.pewresearch.org

What % of US population are middle class?
About 50% of Americans are in the middle class today, compared to 61% in 1971.
And yet the overall population continues to grow. So where are these middle-income earners going?
Mostly into the upper-income tier, the Pew Research Center found.

Are you upper middle class?

Discover the upper middle class’s defining characteristics, income range, and lifestyle.

www.usatoday.com

Now Intelligence-lacking-Seepybob..please explain the above FACTS!

 

[CowboyTed]

Well, no , wealth either goes up or it goes down., Every modern Economomics has a Circulation Theory

Circulation economics encompasses everything related to production, distribution, consumption and redistribution of goods and services. This means that the most efficient solution to a problem facing one company can be found in cooperation with one or more actors in a different part of the circular value chain.

Trickle down is so inefficient it is almost worthless...

Trickle up is super efficient... Ask any economics class... Give a 100 dollars to a poor guy and it will be spent by the end of the day. Give it to rich and he won't change his spending habits.

Trickle Down was a scam invented by some rich to keep taxes low... They pumped it and their proponents of it..

 

[TruthNotBS]

What is "middle class"?
Is it an income range?
A percentile range?
Or is it a feeling?

It's a way of saying "working class" without sounding too socialist.

 

[TruthNotBS]

So with FACTS from you maybe you'd be more believable as these are the FACTS substantiated!
FACT: Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households. Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021. In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.

3. How wealth and wealth gaps vary by income

Household wealth or net worth is the value of assets owned by every member of the household minus their debt. The terms are used interchangeably in this

www.pewresearch.org

What % of US population are middle class?
About 50% of Americans are in the middle class today, compared to 61% in 1971.
And yet the overall population continues to grow. So where are these middle-income earners going?
Mostly into the upper-income tier, the Pew Research Center found.

Are you upper middle class?

Discover the upper middle class’s defining characteristics, income range, and lifestyle.

www.usatoday.com

Now Intelligence-lacking-Seepybob..please explain the above FACTS!

He's an expert in sophistry and tapdancing around the issue, you've been warned.

 

[healthmyths]

Trickle down is so inefficient it is almost worthless...

Trickle up is super efficient... Ask any economics class... Give a 100 dollars to a poor guy and it will be spent by the end of the day. Give it to rich and he won't change his spending habits.

Trickle Down was a scam invented by some rich to keep taxes low... They pumped it and their proponents of it..

Where are your FACTS TED??? NO proof regarding "trickle down" as a scam.
Simple illustration....
When the tide goes out ALL BOATS... row boats to yachts to luxury liners all lower to the same water depth.
Now for FACTS:
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households.
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.
In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.
www.pewresearch.org

NOW one thing you and dummies like you that defend the archaic unions... is this.....
Data from the US Census Bureau shows a record-breaking 5,481,437 new businesses were started in 2023. The onset of the pandemic in 2020 has driven a surge in new business creation, so the number of new businesses is trending up.
On average, there are 4.7 million businesses started every year.

How Many New Businesses Start Each Year? (2024 Data)

Data shows 5.5 million businesses were started in 2023 and 4.7 million businesses are started every year average. Let's dig into the data.

www.commerceinstitute.com

. An average small business owner makes about $60,000 per year​

12 Small Business Statistics: Facts & Numbers for [wcyear]

Small business statistics and trends you must know in 2023. Discover how many small businesses there are in the US, average revenue, failure rate, and more.

www.tidio.com

Do you really think these small businesses would approve a labor union?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Where are your FACTS TED??? NO proof regarding "trickle down" as a scam.
Simple illustration....
When the tide goes out ALL BOATS... row boats to yachts to luxury liners all lower to the same water depth.
Now for FACTS:
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households.
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.
In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.
www.pewresearch.org

NOW one thing you and dummies like you that defend the archaic unions... is this.....
Data from the US Census Bureau shows a record-breaking 5,481,437 new businesses were started in 2023. The onset of the pandemic in 2020 has driven a surge in new business creation, so the number of new businesses is trending up.
On average, there are 4.7 million businesses started every year.

How Many New Businesses Start Each Year? (2024 Data)

Data shows 5.5 million businesses were started in 2023 and 4.7 million businesses are started every year average. Let's dig into the data.

www.commerceinstitute.com

. An average small business owner makes about $60,000 per year​

12 Small Business Statistics: Facts & Numbers for [wcyear]

Small business statistics and trends you must know in 2023. Discover how many small businesses there are in the US, average revenue, failure rate, and more.

www.tidio.com

Do you really think these small businesses would approve a labor union?

In a disaster, there might be new opportunities, certain people will make more money than others, even those who before the catastrophe were considered underprivileged, with incomes below the poverty line. New jobs and more employment opportunities arise for those willing to take the risk (risk to health, life, and limb), and then as society recovers from the crisis, with help from the government, as in "bailouts", stimulus checks, rent moratoriums, price controls, free-food distribution centers/public pantries, online free education and training vouchers..etc, there's an improvement in people's earning potential and an economic recovery.

What does that have to do with supply-side, "trickle-down economics"? You're appealing to economic conditions in a nationwide catastrophe, heavily dependent upon government intervention and assistance, within a completely different dynamic that exists normally, when there isn't a serious, national crisis. None of those figures in your effort to paint trickle-down economics as a driving force for improvement in working-class people's lives, normally applies.

The reality is that the working class under neoliberal, capitalist economics, has fewer rights and protections, blue-collar wages become stagnant and unable to support families as they did before, the cost of living rises, credit-card debt goes through the roof, people no longer save, and are living hand to mouth paycheck to paycheck. Unionized workers, only 6% of the American workforce today, benefit from higher wages, benefits, better workplace environments..etc, whereas un-unionized workers are suffering the most.

Living Paycheck To Paycheck Statistics 2024

As living expenses in the U.S. continue to rise and wages struggle to keep up, it’s unsurprising that Americans of all generations are having a hard time financially. For many, this means living paycheck to paycheck. But what does it really mean to live paycheck to paycheck, and what underlying f

www.forbes.com

More Americans say they are living paycheck to paycheck this year than in 2023âhere's why

A majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, according to CNBC and SurveyMonkey’s recent Your Money International Financial Security Survey.

www.cnbc.com

​

The American working class is rising, because the younger generation, isn't brainwashed by capitalist Cold War claptrap propaganda as you old fogies are. They're not going to stand for gross inequality, where company CEOs are making 1000x more than the average workers in their companies while those workers can hardly pay their bills with their wages (many workers are on government food stamps and cash assistance - the government is subsidizing the workforce of these greedy capitalists). That shit ain't flying with the younger Millennials and Zoomers. Our children and grandchildren have zero tolerance for that crap. They're unionizing and the US Government is protecting them, as it should. Ensuring their rights.

IF YOU CAN'T PAY YOUR FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN BUSINESS. GET A JOB.​

 

[sealybobo]

What is "middle class"?
Is it an income range?
A percentile range?
Or is it a feeling?

Let us know if you are middle class


About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2018, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. Roughly three-in-ten (29%) were in lower-income households and 19% were in upper-income households.

Our calculator below, updated with 2018 data, lets you find out which group you are in – first compared with other adults in your metropolitan area and among American adults overall, and then compared with other adults in the United States similar to you in education, age, race or ethnicity, and marital status.

STEP 1: See where you are in the distribution of Americans by income tier. Enter the location that best describes where you live, your household income and the number of people in your household. The calculator adjusts for the cost of living in your area.

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[sealybobo]

What is "middle class"?
Is it an income range?
A percentile range?
Or is it a feeling?

Just as I suspected

Based on MY household income and the number of people in MY household, I'M in the UPPER income tier, along with 21% of adults in Metro Detroit.

Plug in where you live, how much you make before taxes and how many you support.

 

[sealybobo]

So with FACTS from you maybe you'd be more believable as these are the FACTS substantiated!
FACT: Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households. Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021. In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.

3. How wealth and wealth gaps vary by income

Household wealth or net worth is the value of assets owned by every member of the household minus their debt. The terms are used interchangeably in this

www.pewresearch.org

What % of US population are middle class?
About 50% of Americans are in the middle class today, compared to 61% in 1971.
And yet the overall population continues to grow. So where are these middle-income earners going?
Mostly into the upper-income tier, the Pew Research Center found.

Are you upper middle class?

Discover the upper middle class’s defining characteristics, income range, and lifestyle.

www.usatoday.com

Now Intelligence-lacking-Seepybob..please explain the above FACTS!

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

What are you? I'm right on the cusp but I'm upper class.

The rich drive the numbers way up. Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K when they are 55 years old. That means most Americans only have a $150K 401K. That's pretty pathetic.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Let us know if you are middle class


About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2018, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. Roughly three-in-ten (29%) were in lower-income households and 19% were in upper-income households.

Our calculator below, updated with 2018 data, lets you find out which group you are in – first compared with other adults in your metropolitan area and among American adults overall, and then compared with other adults in the United States similar to you in education, age, race or ethnicity, and marital status.

STEP 1: See where you are in the distribution of Americans by income tier. Enter the location that best describes where you live, your household income and the number of people in your household. The calculator adjusts for the cost of living in your area.

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2018,

You said the middle class disappeared. Now it's 52% of adults?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Where are your FACTS TED??? NO proof regarding "trickle down" as a scam.
Simple illustration....
When the tide goes out ALL BOATS... row boats to yachts to luxury liners all lower to the same water depth.
Now for FACTS:
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.

The wealth of lower-income households increased at a faster rate during the pandemic – 101% vs. 15% for upper-income households.
Middle-income households saw their net worth increase by 29% from 2019 to 2021.
In our analysis, “middle-income” households are those with an income that was two-thirds to double the national median income. This was about $4,800 to $14,300 monthly in December 2021 for a household of three.
www.pewresearch.org

NOW one thing you and dummies like you that defend the archaic unions... is this.....
Data from the US Census Bureau shows a record-breaking 5,481,437 new businesses were started in 2023. The onset of the pandemic in 2020 has driven a surge in new business creation, so the number of new businesses is trending up.
On average, there are 4.7 million businesses started every year.

How Many New Businesses Start Each Year? (2024 Data)

Data shows 5.5 million businesses were started in 2023 and 4.7 million businesses are started every year average. Let's dig into the data.

www.commerceinstitute.com

. An average small business owner makes about $60,000 per year​

12 Small Business Statistics: Facts & Numbers for [wcyear]

Small business statistics and trends you must know in 2023. Discover how many small businesses there are in the US, average revenue, failure rate, and more.

www.tidio.com

Do you really think these small businesses would approve a labor union?

Who gives a shit if they approve or not? If they want to hire human beings to work for them, those human laborers should be unionized and you're going to have to negotiate wages with them as a socioeconomic class with their own class interests. You have an interest in paying them less than they're worth, that's called "profit". You pay them less than what they produce. However, capitalists have to make money too, so you have to come to an agreement that satisfies all parties involved in the productive enterprise.

You have to make enough to pay your overhead and also earn an income, to live. Your potential to make 10x, 100x more money than you're paying your workers is there, as a business owner. It's called business expansion. You may not make that much with your first Pizzeria, but you open another one, and then another one, and another one, and you'll start making 100x, 1000x what your average worker earns. Happy workers, happy customers, happy capitalists. Happy happy happy.

 

[TruthNotBS]

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2018,

You said the middle class disappeared. Now it's 52% of adults?

More Americans say they are living paycheck to paycheck this year than in 2023âhere's why

A majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, according to CNBC and SurveyMonkey’s recent Your Money International Financial Security Survey.

www.cnbc.com

If you're living paycheck to paycheck and rents are through the roof, the cost of living is obscene, then your appeal to the "middle-class income" is gobbledygook. People making $20, $30..etc, hourly can hardly survive, not to speak of people earning minimum wage or $10 hourly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

More Americans say they are living paycheck to paycheck this year than in 2023âhere's why

A majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, according to CNBC and SurveyMonkey’s recent Your Money International Financial Security Survey.

www.cnbc.com

If you're living paycheck to paycheck and rents are through the roof, the cost of living is obscene, then your appeal to the "middle-class income" is gobbledygook. People making $20, $30..etc, hourly can hardly survive, not to speak of people earning minimum wage or $10 hourly.

I agree, Bidenflation is slamming the middle class.

 

[healthmyths]

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

What are you? I'm right on the cusp but I'm upper class.

The rich drive the numbers way up. Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K when they are 55 years old. That means most Americans only have a $150K 401K. That's pretty pathetic.

YOU made up everything above...i.e. you are on the cusp??? HAHA...
Where are your facts regarding "Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K at 55 years"
What is your source for that at this point totally unvalidated statement? Why should anyone take your comment as valid?
That's the problem.
A buyer in Yonkers, New York (about 12 miles north of Manhattan) could purchase this 560-square-foot studio co-op apartment for $149,000.

Homes: What you can buy for $150,000

It's still possible to find good housing deals for this price -- but pay close attention to the neighborhood

www.cbsnews.com

A buyer with $140,000 in the West Price Hill area of Cincinnati could purchase this three-bedroom, three-bathroom, traditional-style home
This two-bedroom, three-bathroom condo in the Villa Park neighborhood of Denver is on the market for $150,000.
In the Rosemoor neighborhood of South Chicago, this three-bedroom, two-bathroom, 1,650-square-foot ranch houseis currently on the market for $141,000.

Homes: What you can buy for $150,000

It's still possible to find good housing deals for this price -- but pay close attention to the neighborhood

www.cbsnews.com

So do you see any of these cities and then homes you'd buy for $150,000?

What are YOUR facts???

 

[TruthNotBS]

I agree, Bidenflation is slamming the middle class.

We just came out of a nationwide deadly pandemic (really a worldwide pandemic), that devastated our economy. Inflation really wouldn't exist if the government had the cojones to apply certain policies to the market, reducing, if not eliminating inflation. There are a lot of things governments can do to curtail inflation and stimulate the economy.

Obama, and Biden, are socialist pretenders. They adopt superficial socialistic policies that don't go far enough in regulating the market and only end up hurting the economy. You either apply it correctly and fully, or not. Half-ass socialism is worse than Milton Friedman, Austrian economics.

If capitalists resist your half-ass socialistic policies, and there are no boundaries, restrictions, regulations, and policies in place to deal with these pissed-off capitalists, on vengeance mode, you'll undermine your capitalist-market economy. If you're going to play the part of the social democrat or socialist, then do it, but if you go half-ass into it, you'll get eaten alive by the capitalist ruling class. The working class will suffer and so will your political career.

As a half-ass social democrat or socialist, you're creating the perfect conditions for right-wing populism to take over. Trump is better than half-ass social democrats or fake-socialists. That's why he's going to win, and he may even have my vote, the vote of a communist.

American liberals are stuck on stupid, concerning immigration. Trump will quickly take care of that.

 

[TruthNotBS]

YOU made up everything above...i.e. you are on the cusp??? HAHA...
Where are your facts regarding "Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K at 55 years"
What is your source for that at this point totally unvalidated statement? Why should anyone take your comment as valid?
That's the problem.
A buyer in Yonkers, New York (about 12 miles north of Manhattan) could purchase this 560-square-foot studio co-op apartment for $149,000.

Homes: What you can buy for $150,000

It's still possible to find good housing deals for this price -- but pay close attention to the neighborhood

www.cbsnews.com

A buyer with $140,000 in the West Price Hill area of Cincinnati could purchase this three-bedroom, three-bathroom, traditional-style home
This two-bedroom, three-bathroom condo in the Villa Park neighborhood of Denver is on the market for $150,000.
In the Rosemoor neighborhood of South Chicago, this three-bedroom, two-bathroom, 1,650-square-foot ranch houseis currently on the market for $141,000.

Homes: What you can buy for $150,000

It's still possible to find good housing deals for this price -- but pay close attention to the neighborhood

www.cbsnews.com

So do you see any of these cities and then homes you'd buy for $150,000?

What are YOUR facts???

Are you buying it cash? Loan? How is your credit? Can you get the loan? What are the monthly payments on the mortgage and interest rate? How's the job market in that city or town? How's your health? Medical bills? What's your employment and earning potential in the future?

 

[healthmyths]

Are you buying it cash? Loan? How is your credit? Can you get the loan? What are the monthly payments on the mortgage and interest rate? How's the job market in that city or town? How's your health? Medical bills? What's your employment and earning potential in the future?

WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FACTS???

YOU SAID unequivocally "Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K at 55 years"
Stick by it! Where are your facts for your comment?

 

[TruthNotBS]

WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FACTS???

YOU SAID unequivocally "Most people, if they own a $150,000 home, are worth about $300K at 55 years"
Stick by it! Where are your facts for your comment?

When did I say that? You're confusing me with someone else.

 

[healthmyths]

When did I say that? You're confusing me with someone else.

You are RIGHT!!! I was confusing you with "sealybobo" who said that. I'm sorry I was wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2018,

You said the middle class disappeared. Now it's 52% of adults?

Well they didn't completely kill us. Let's connect the dots

The share of U.S. workers who belong to a union has fallen since 1983, when 20.1% of American workers were union members. In 2023, 10.0% of U.S. workers were in a union.

In economic news, new data from the U.S. Department of Commerce shows the largest U.S. multinational companies cut their work forces in the United States by 2.9 million over the past 10 years, while increasing employment overseas by 2.4 million. In 2009, the contrast was most stark. U.S. companies cut 1.2 million jobs at home while adding 100,000 jobs overseas.

Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?​

A new report offers one explanation as to why the mortality rate for uneducated white Americans has risen—even as people elsewhere are living longer and healthier.

Perhaps it's only these uneducated blue collar workers who lost their union jobs and now don't make enough to thrive in America.

One thing I love to point out is that these uneducated blue collar white Americans who lost their jobs used to tell blacks to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Now that the good paying blue collar jobs are gone, we see uneducated whites acting a lot like the ghetto people they have looked down on for centuries.

Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?

A new report offers one explanation as to why the mortality rate for uneducated white Americans has risen—even as people elsewhere are living longer and healthier.

www.theatlantic.com

Consider this. Today to be "middle class" you have to go $100K into debt. Get a college degree. And put 20% down on a $200K home. And pay a lot to raise a kid.