Why does israel get a free pass when it comes to apartheid?

Quadravius

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
 
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Sally

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?

Do you really think the daughter of the South African leader (who has lived under apawrtheid herself) is a hypocrite when she says there is no apartheid in Israel? Meanwhile, you certainly appear to be a hypocrite if you don't realize what is happening in the Muslim world which takes up quite a lot of territory.
 

toastman

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
The answer to your question is in your title
 

Lipush

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
Is that a serious question? there is no apartheid in Israel.
 

ForeverYoung436

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
Is that a serious question? there is no apartheid in Israel.
There is no apartheid in Israel proper.
 

RoccoR

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Quadravius, et al,

Because it is not really "apartheid." I'm sure you know all this so you can just skip down to the "COMMENTS."

(MEMORY REFRESHER)

Part II said:
"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

SOURCE: Article 7 Crimes against Humanity
Part II Article 8 Paragraph 2b said:
(i) Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;
(v) Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;

SOURCE: Article 8 War Crimes
II. Measures to prevent and combat terrorism said:
To refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

SOURCE: The strategy, in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288)
DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW FRIENDLY RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION AMONG STATES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS said:
Considering that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:
(a) The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
(b) The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,​

SOURCE: A/RES/25/2625 24 October 1970

(TO BE CONSIDERED)

Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh said:
13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​

SOURCE: A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948
Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 34/102. Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States said:
Calls upon all States to adhere strictly in their international relations to the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered;

SOURCE: A/RES/34/102
Article 1 said:
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

SOURCE: A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974
Palestine National Charter of 1968 said:
Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

Article 10: Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national (watani) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory.

SOURCE: www.un.int | State of Palestine Permanent Observer... | PLO | Palestine National Charter | Palestine National Charter of 1968
Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies said:
Hamas Refugee Affairs Department head Dr 'Issam 'Adwan argued that Hamas had the right to attack Israeli embassies and interests as well as senior Israeli officials anywhere in the world. He added that the resistance is also entitled to harm
the interests of Israel's allies, headed by the U.S.

SOURCE: Published July 16, 2013

You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
(COMMENT)

The current quarantine, security containment and occupation (collectively called security countermeasures) is based on a number of different considerations. We could write a whole book on the subject. I will address just on of them.

The countermeasures (CM) are NOT based on the concept to protect the "regime;" an "Apartheid" notion. They are based on the concept to protect the territorial integrity of the State of Israel, and its citizens from the open threat of Genocide and the acts of aggression the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have engaged in since a time before the State of Israel was even declared. Under the State of Israel, there are a dozen (or so) Israeli Arabs in Public Service as members of the Knesset; with several dozen others as former members. You did not see anything similar to this under South African Apartheid. Similarly, because of the regional conditions Israeli Arab citizens are not required to serve in the IDF; yet there are some - including Major General Hussain Fares, commander of Israel's border police. Other senior officials include (but not limited to):
  • Salim Jurban, selected a permanent member of Israel’s Supreme Court (2004)
  • Nawaf Massalha, Deputy Foreign Minister
  • Ali Yahya, Walid Mansour and Mohammed Masarwa, who held Ambassadorships
  • Major General Yosef Mishlav, Head of Homeland Security as Israel’s Home Front commander
I very much doubt that under South African Apartheid, you saw either the Chief of Border Police or Homeland Security coming from the oppressed minority group. Yet, Israel has both male and female Arab Israelis in all sectors of the Government and spanning the spectrum of ranks.

There is a basic tenant in the Rule of Law concerning the Settlement of disputes by peaceful means through a good faith process. Yet, time and time again, the HoAP (whether we talk about the Palestine Black Hand in 1930 by Izz ad-din al-Qassam or the Higher Committee threatening Genocide, the Covenant of HAMAS or the Palestinian Charter, or even the recent reminder that the conflict can use any means necessary) has opted for a settlement through conflict as the method of choice; as apposed to peaceful means. There is an indisputable history of past practices demonstrated by the HoAP (assassinations, piracy at sea, airline hijackings, public massacres at major events, suicide bombings and indiscriminate rocket attacks) spanning several decades. The CMs, through a series of security barriers in depth, have been quite effective in the mitigation and neutralization in the ability of the HoAP to conduct such Jihadist and Fedayeen operations. It is not fool proof, but effective. Again, these measures are not in place to maintain a segregation between races, ethnic cultures, religious followings, or whatever. These CMs serve to implement the inherent right of self-defense against Jihadist and Fedayeen armed attacks that have happened in the past and in which the Palestinian still encourage today.

Even as we discuss this topic, there are notable demonstrations underway in the West Bank to protest the PLO engagement in peace treaty negotiations and dispute resolution through other than violent means. Even today, HAMAS is still producing next generation Article 15 Jihadist at training camps in Gaza; adding yet to the past practices of criminal behaviors.


When considering your question, we must look at both sides of the coin.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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José

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Ethnic enclave/pseudo-country created by the white racial dictatorship to turn black south africans into "foreigners" in their own homeland and preserve South Africa's artificial white majority constantly using the safety of the white people as an excuse for ethnic supremacism.


Ethnic enclave created by the jewish racial dictatorship to turn palestinian arabs into "foreigners" in their own homeland and preserve Israel's artificial jewish majority constantly using the security of the jewish people as an excuse for ethnic supremacism like any other ethnocratic state in the history of mankind.












 

Dante

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Why does israel get a free pass when it comes to apartheid?

Because Israel does not practice apartheid? :lol:

please, try and refute the following:

"Today, Jews are the majority within Israel, but the non-Jewish minority (Arab, Christians, Bedouin, Druze, Baha'i and others) enjoy full citizenship with voting rights and representation in the government."

"unlike their brethren in the West Bank, Palestinian Arabs within the green line also enjoy citizenship and the right to vote. They sit in the Knesset and on Israel’s Supreme Court. They maintain their own religious courts and their own, state-funded, Arabic-language schools and media, something religious and ethnic minorities in many other countries do not enjoy. Arabic is one of Israel’s official languages. Palestinian Arab citizens have also made dramatic educational and economic gains under Israeli rule. The political scientists Ilan Peleg and Dov Waxman note that in 1948, the illiteracy rate among Israel’s Palestinian Arabs was 80 percent. By 1988, it was 15 percent."
 

José

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This sounds like a compliment... coming from someone who has almost certainly just heard the word "ethnocracy" for the first time in his life. :razz:
 

toastman

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José;8528896 said:
Ethnic enclave/pseudo-country created by the white racial dictatorship to turn black south africans into "foreigners" in their own homeland and preserve South Africa's artificial white majority constantly using the safety of the white people as an excuse for ethnic supremacism.


Ethnic enclave created by the jewish racial dictatorship to turn palestinian arabs into "foreigners" in their own homeland and preserve Israel's artificial jewish majority constantly using the security of the jewish people as an excuse for ethnic supremacism like any other ethnocratic state in the history of mankind.












You obviously ignored Rocco's post..

I remember during the second intifada when Palestinian suicide bombers from the West Bank were blowing themselves up every week in Israel. Everyone in Israel remembers that too.

So Israel did something about it. They built a wall and increased the amount of checkpoints. And now the Palestinians are crying about this.
It really is a shame for the innocent Palestinians who never had any intention to harm Israel or her citizens, just to live in peace.
They have no one but Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades to blame.
Welcome to your consequences (credit to Kondor for that one)
 

Delta4Embassy

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You know, I look on the news, and they call mandela a hero for opposing apartheid in south africa. But the same ones calling mandela a hero for opposing apartheid seem to vigorously defend israel for imposing apartheid on palestinians.

Why so much hypocrisy when it comes to israel? Is israel the last nation on earth that gets a free pass for having a racist regime?
Israelis and Arabs got along fine early on. Wasn't until outside agitators who'd supported the Nazis pushed tolerance off a cliff and made it a conflicted issue.
 

José

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Originally posted by toastman
You obviously ignored Rocco's post..

I remember during the second intifada when Palestinian suicide bombers from the West Bank were blowing themselves up every week in Israel. Everyone in Israel remembers that too.

So Israel did something about it. They built a wall and increased the amount of checkpoints. And now the Palestinians are crying about this.
It really is a shame for the innocent Palestinians who never had any intention to harm Israel or her citizens, just to live in peace.
They have no one but Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades to blame.
Welcome to your consequences (credit to Kondor for that one)
Toast, first of all it's nice to see you again, buddy... I'll probably die without knowing what you did so wrong to be banned so many times for so long...

Apart from you occasional outburst directed at Tinmore because of his inability to give Rocco a run for his money you were always a class act.

But then again I didn't read all of your posts and don't know all the things you did here on this Board so I'm not really qualified to take a position...

But whatever you have done in the past, please, don't do it again buddy... cuz I really missed you even though I post only sporadically.

Now....

I'm sorry to break the news to you, toastman, but the first fences surrounding gaza and the WB were erected in the early 50's way before the PLO, Hamas, Jihad were founded.

And the police to kill unarmed palestinians trying to return to their homes is predates the fences themselves.

Hell, the first palestinian civilians trying to return from Gaza and the West Bank were killed even before the 1948 war.

To make a long story short, the security excuse is the same old, tired bullshit used by just about any racist state in the history of humanity, from 19th century America to justify the reservations to Israel, including Nazi Germany and their ghettoes and South Africa and the black states it created.

But if you happen to have fallen in love with one of the states above you're gonna obviously swallow it hook, line and sinker.
 
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José

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And let me tell you something else about Tinmore, Toastman...

Your outbursts of rage against Tinmore are really funny and make the whole board laugh:

"Pathetic Tinmore!!

I lost count of how many times he had his ass handed to him on a silver plate by Rocco."


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Really funny... but let me add something to this.

Maybe you are right... Perhaps Tinmore really lack the debating skills to face Rocco... maybe he does suck at debate...

But this is just part of the story... The problem with Tinmore is that the guy is a real gentleman... I would dare to say a real lady...

The doesn't have a single molecule of testosterone, a single aggressive bone in him... so he lacks the killer instinct to go for the kill, to crush his opponents.

You said you lost count of how many time he lost to Rocco... well, I lost count of how many times I've seen Rocco presenting insane, absurd arguments always wrapped in a myriad of legal documents and international treatises whose meaning he horrendously distorted beyond recognition.

And I always banged my head against the wall in frustration seeing Tinmore's inability?/unwillingness? to give Rocco a mortal blow...

But now I came to understand that this is not his way, his style...

So maybe we are both right....

Maybe Tinmore does suck at debating as you say... but on top of that, he's just doesn't have the killer instinct other posters do...

Make no mistake about it, toastman... Rocco wouldn't last 5 minutes against someone who has both the knowledge and the testosterone like myself.
 

toastman

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José;8529164 said:
Originally posted by toastman
You obviously ignored Rocco's post..

I remember during the second intifada when Palestinian suicide bombers from the West Bank were blowing themselves up every week in Israel. Everyone in Israel remembers that too.

So Israel did something about it. They built a wall and increased the amount of checkpoints. And now the Palestinians are crying about this.
It really is a shame for the innocent Palestinians who never had any intention to harm Israel or her citizens, just to live in peace.
They have no one but Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades to blame.
Welcome to your consequences (credit to Kondor for that one)
Toast, first of all it's nice to see you again, buddy... I'll probably die without knowing what you did so wrong to be banned so many times for so long...

Apart from you occasional outburst directed at Tinmore because of his inability to give Rocco a run for his money you were always a class act.

But then again I didn't read all of your posts and don't know all the things you did here on this Board so I'm not really qualified to take a position...

But whatever you have done in the past, please, don't do it again buddy... cuz I really missed you even though I post only sporadically.

Now....

I'm sorry to break the news to you, toastman, but the first fences surrounding gaza and the WB were erected in the early 50's way before the PLO, Hamas, Jihad were founded.

And the police to kill unarmed palestinians trying to return to their homes is predates the fences themselves.

Hell, the first palestinian civilians trying to return from Gaza and the West Bank were killed even before the 1948 war.

To make a long story short, the security excuse is the same old, tired bullshit used by just about any racist state in the history of humanity, from 19th century America to justify the reservations to Israel, including Nazi Germany and their ghettoes and South Africa and the black states it created.

But if you happen to have fallen in love with one of the states above you're gonna obviously swallow it hook, line and sinker.
Hey Jose, I appreciate your honest and kind response

I've debated this issue so many times, I really don't feel like it anymore, because I know exactly how it will pan out.

As for why I kept getting banned, it's because I kept bringing up a member who is...how should I say this.....no longer with us ;)

Concerning Tinmore, the reason I say those things to him is because even when his questions are answered and arguments dismantled, he will ask the same thing as if Rocco never addressed it before.
But I have nothing against hi mat all. In fact, I defended him today in another thread here when a poster accused him of being a Jew hater.

Now, concerning the main issue, I still don't consider Israel to be a 'Apartheid' State. Yes, there is some anti - Arab sentiment in Israel, but none of that IMO classifies Israel as an Aparthied state.
 

Dante

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Why does israel get a free pass when it comes to apartheid?

Because Israel does not practice apartheid? :lol:

please, try and refute the following:

"Today, Jews are the majority within Israel, but the non-Jewish minority (Arab, Christians, Bedouin, Druze, Baha'i and others) enjoy full citizenship with voting rights and representation in the government."

"unlike their brethren in the West Bank, Palestinian Arabs within the green line also enjoy citizenship and the right to vote. They sit in the Knesset and on Israel’s Supreme Court. They maintain their own religious courts and their own, state-funded, Arabic-language schools and media, something religious and ethnic minorities in many other countries do not enjoy. Arabic is one of Israel’s official languages. Palestinian Arab citizens have also made dramatic educational and economic gains under Israeli rule. The political scientists Ilan Peleg and Dov Waxman note that in 1948, the illiteracy rate among Israel’s Palestinian Arabs was 80 percent. By 1988, it was 15 percent."

Israel does not practice apartheid :eusa_whistle:
 

toastman

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José;8529173 said:
And let me tell you something else about Tinmore, Toastman...

Your outbursts of rage against Tinmore are really funny and make the whole board laugh:

"Pathetic Tinmore!!

I lost count of how many times he had his ass handed to him on a silver plate by Rocco."


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Really funny... but let me add something to this.

Maybe you are right... Perhaps Tinmore really lack the debating skills to face Rocco... maybe he does suck at debate...

But this is just part of the story... The problem with Tinmore is that the guy is a real gentleman... I would dare to say a real lady...

The doesn't have a single molecule of testosterone, a single aggressive bone in him... so he lacks the killer instinct to go for the kill, to crush his opponents.

You said you lost count of how many time he lost to Rocco... well, I lost count of how many times I've seen Rocco presenting insane, absurd arguments always wrapped in a myriad of legal documents and international treatises whose meaning he horrendously distorted beyond recognition.

And I always banged my head against the wall in frustration seeing Tinmore's inability?/unwillingness? to give Rocco a mortal blow...

But now I came to understand that this is not his way, his style...

So maybe we are both right....

Maybe Tinmore does suck at debating as you say... but on top of that, he's just doesn't have the killer instinct other posters do...

Make no mistake about it, toastman... Rocco wouldn't last 5 minutes against someone who has both the knowledge and the testosterone like myself.
I'm not saying you don't have knowledge, but..I really doubt this.


wrapped in a myriad of legal documents and international treatises

That is what Tinmore asks for some of the times. Not to mention, he used those to back up his claim which is important whe ndiscussing the political issues that we do and something Tinmore rarely does.
 
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