Did anyone expect anything different? They are calling for violence against Israel a

[Sally]

Did anyone expect anything different? They are calling for violence against Israel again.

Palestinians Say 'NO' to Peace Talks
Sunday, January 26, 2014 | Israel Today Staff


Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rallied in cities across the so-called "West Bank" on Saturday demanding that their leadership stop participating in US-brokered peace talks with Israel.

Organized by left-wing Palestinian political movements, the demonstrations lambasted US Secretary of State John Kerry's peace proposals as legitimizing the "Israeli occupation," according to Bethlehem's Ma'an news agency.

Continue reading at:

Palestinians Say 'NO' to Peace Talks - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[rhodescholar]

Did anyone expect anything different? They are calling for violence against Israel again.

Palestinians Say 'NO' to Peace Talks
Sunday, January 26, 2014 | Israel Today Staff


Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rallied in cities across the so-called "West Bank" on Saturday demanding that their leadership stop participating in US-brokered peace talks with Israel.

Organized by left-wing Palestinian political movements, the demonstrations lambasted US Secretary of State John Kerry's peace proposals as legitimizing the "Israeli occupation," according to Bethlehem's Ma'an news agency.

Continue reading at:

Palestinians Say 'NO' to Peace Talks - Israel Today | Israel News

You see, this is a direct result of having a fake president named obama; his submission to the worst scum of the earth like khameini and putin on such matters as iran's nuclear weapons program and syria's mass slaughter of its people has led tyrants like abbas to feel much more confident in their position. He realizes that with the intransigents/anti-peace camp (russia, iran) in his corner, he can press as hard as he wants, and when these faked negotiations fail, he can resume terrorism and violence against Israel with them standing strongly behind him.

Abbas also realizes that Europe is now, for all practical matters, standing solidly in his camp as their muslim population has exploded, and they are forced to take ever more aggressive diplomatic positions against Israel, such as sanctioning Israeli businesses, while ignoring far great human rights violators like china and so many others, like the arab states.

Obama has been an unmitigated disaster for the US, and it will take years, if not decades, to repair the damage.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

 

[toastman]

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

Kind of like they said no to a state in 1948 .

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

Well, Abbas has said they're committed to them until April. Then he wants to go to the U.N. again (G-d only knows why).

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

As I discussed in the previous thread "I will not Bow!" Post #597, --- #612 and #621, there is a difference between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the peaceful Palestinian, and there is a cultural difference between their ability to settle disputes in a peaceful manner versus through conflict --- and a difference in their capacity to understand the difference. Discussion brought up in Post Post #502 and #517.

Did anyone expect anything different? They are calling for violence against Israel again.

Palestinians Say 'NO' to Peace Talks
Sunday, January 26, 2014 | Israel Today Staff

Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rallied in cities across the so-called "West Bank" on Saturday demanding that their leadership stop participating in US-brokered peace talks with Israel.

Organized by left-wing Palestinian political movements, the demonstrations lambasted US Secretary of State John Kerry's peace proposals as legitimizing the "Israeli occupation," according to Bethlehem's Ma'an news agency.

(COMMENT)

As disccussed in Post #517, the HoAP does not have a strong capacity to seek peaceful alternative means. Their preferred method of conflict resolution is hostility and violence.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Well said Rocco. The HoAP are afraid of defeat and to them, signing and peace deal with Israel is just that. They prefer victory over having a peaceful existence with Israel. Some of them actually believe that they will one day be able to 'beat' Israel and make their lifelong dream of having all the land now known as Israel become their country

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are making an assumption on something not in evidence.

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

(COMMENT)

What I hear them saying is "NO" to the essential concept that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter and the UN Resolution on "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102).

These are demonstrations supporting hostility and violence as a means of dispute resolution. They made a similar decision in early 1948 when they decided to attack Israel on their day of Independence, and threatened genocide.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are making an assumption on something not in evidence.

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

(COMMENT)

What I hear them saying is "NO" to the essential concept that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter and the UN Resolution on "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102).

These are demonstrations supporting hostility and violence as a means of dispute resolution. They made a similar decision in early 1948 when they decided to attack Israel on their day of Independence, and threatened genocide.

Most Respectfully,
R

The peace talks are fake. There was never any intention to find peace. It is just a dog and pony show.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a whole Handbook on the Peaceful Settlement of Disputes between States and of course:

All States shall act in good faith and in conformity with the purposes and principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations with a view to avoiding disputes among themselves likely to affect friendly relations among States, thus contributing to the maintenance of international peace and security. They shall live together in peace with one another as good neighbours and strive for the adoption of meaningful measures for strengthening international peace and security.

SOURCE: A/RES/37/10

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are making an assumption on something not in evidence.

The Palestinians are saying no to fake peace talks.

(COMMENT)

What I hear them saying is "NO" to the essential concept that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter and the UN Resolution on "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102).

These are demonstrations supporting hostility and violence as a means of dispute resolution. They made a similar decision in early 1948 when they decided to attack Israel on their day of Independence, and threatened genocide.

Most Respectfully,
R

The peace talks are fake. There was never any intention to find peace. It is just a dog and pony show.

(COMMENT)

Maybe. But the historical evidence is that the HoAP has never come to the table willingly and in good faith.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a whole Handbook on the Peaceful Settlement of Disputes between States.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are making an assumption on something not in evidence.


(COMMENT)

What I hear them saying is "NO" to the essential concept that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter and the UN Resolution on "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102).

These are demonstrations supporting hostility and violence as a means of dispute resolution. They made a similar decision in early 1948 when they decided to attack Israel on their day of Independence, and threatened genocide.

Most Respectfully,
R

The peace talks are fake. There was never any intention to find peace. It is just a dog and pony show.

(COMMENT)

Maybe. But the historical evidence is that the HoAP has never come to the table willingly.

Most Respectfully,
R

When the elected representatives of the people are not allowed at the table the process is a farce.

The primary imposed precondition is that the Palestinians must surrender and disarm. That should be a subject for negotiation.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Ah, this is an internal domestic issue.

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a whole Handbook on the Peaceful Settlement of Disputes between States.

The peace talks are fake. There was never any intention to find peace. It is just a dog and pony show.

(COMMENT)

Maybe. But the historical evidence is that the HoAP has never come to the table willingly.

Most Respectfully,
R

When the elected representatives of the people are not allowed at the table the process is a farce.

The primary imposed precondition is that the Palestinians must surrender and disarm. That should be a subject for negotiation.

(COMMENT)

This is about who is the legitimate government and who speaks for the people. And this too can go up for adjudication as a claim under "capacity" in the Rule of Law. This would be pursiant to a claim under Articles of the 1969 VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES Adopted in Vienna, Austria on 23 May 1969.

Article 7 Full Powers

1. A person is considered as representing a State for the purpose of adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty or for the purpose of expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty if:

(a) he produces appropriate full powers; or
(b) it appears from the practice of the States concerned or from other circumstances that their intention was to consider that person as representing the State for such purposes and to dispense with full powers.​

2. In virtue of their functions and without having to produce full powers, the following are considered as representing their State:

(a) Heads of State, Heads of Government and Ministers for Foreign Affairs, for the purpose of performing all acts relating to the conclusion of a treaty;
(b) heads of diplomatic missions, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty between the accrediting State and the State to which they are accredited;
(c) representatives accredited by States to an international conference or to an international organization or one of its organs, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty in that conference, organization or organ.​

Article 8 Subsequent Confirmation of An Act Performed without Authorization

An act relating to the conclusion of a treaty performed by a person who cannot be considered under article 7 as authorized to represent a State for that purpose is without legal effect unless afterwards confirmed by that State.​

But again, that is a matter that can be taken to the court at any time by HAMAS, or any party that is considered to have standing. That is an internal Palestinian matter that has gone unchallenged since Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine --- Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974, when the Puppet Masters declared: "Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated." And Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, is the Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Now I've heard many of the HoAP say that this is untrue. But they need to take it to court.

Otherwise, it is just so much hot air in the wind.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Ah, this is an internal domestic issue.

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a whole Handbook on the Peaceful Settlement of Disputes between States.


(COMMENT)

Maybe. But the historical evidence is that the HoAP has never come to the table willingly.

Most Respectfully,
R

When the elected representatives of the people are not allowed at the table the process is a farce.

The primary imposed precondition is that the Palestinians must surrender and disarm. That should be a subject for negotiation.

(COMMENT)

This is about who is the legitimate government and who speaks for the people. And this too can go up for adjudication as a claim under "capacity" in the Rule of Law. This would be pursiant to a claim under Articles of the 1969 VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES Adopted in Vienna, Austria on 23 May 1969.

Article 7 Full Powers

1. A person is considered as representing a State for the purpose of adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty or for the purpose of expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty if:

(a) he produces appropriate full powers; or
(b) it appears from the practice of the States concerned or from other circumstances that their intention was to consider that person as representing the State for such purposes and to dispense with full powers.​

2. In virtue of their functions and without having to produce full powers, the following are considered as representing their State:

(a) Heads of State, Heads of Government and Ministers for Foreign Affairs, for the purpose of performing all acts relating to the conclusion of a treaty;
(b) heads of diplomatic missions, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty between the accrediting State and the State to which they are accredited;
(c) representatives accredited by States to an international conference or to an international organization or one of its organs, for the purpose of adopting the text of a treaty in that conference, organization or organ.​

Article 8 Subsequent Confirmation of An Act Performed without Authorization

An act relating to the conclusion of a treaty performed by a person who cannot be considered under article 7 as authorized to represent a State for that purpose is without legal effect unless afterwards confirmed by that State.​

But again, that is a matter that can be taken to the court at any time by HAMAS, or any party that is considered to have standing. That is an internal Palestinian matter that has gone unchallenged since Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine --- Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974, when the Puppet Masters declared: "Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated." And Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, is the Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Now I've heard many of the HoAP say that this is untrue. But they need to take it to court.

Otherwise, it is just so much hot air in the wind.

Most Respectfully,
R

What does all that smoke have to do with the elected government not being allowed at the table?

What about the preconditions? Any Palestinian who does no agree to the preconditions is not allowed at the table.

The whole process is fake.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is an internal domestic issue.

What does all that smoke have to do with the elected government not being allowed at the table?

What about the preconditions? Any Palestinian who does no agree to the preconditions is not allowed at the table.

The whole process is fake.

(COMMENT)

This is about who speaks for the Palestinian People.

• Is HAMAS an expired government?
• Does HAMAS now, or has it ever had, the authority to speak for the Palestinian People?

If there is a question here, it is something (your good bodies) the Arab League and Palestinian People have to work-out. If there is smoke, it is because the Arabs have set fire to something, not the Israelis or the Western Powers.

Either the outcomes of the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference stand or they don't!

In any event, it is up to the Arab to sort out.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is an internal domestic issue.

What does all that smoke have to do with the elected government not being allowed at the table?

What about the preconditions? Any Palestinian who does no agree to the preconditions is not allowed at the table.

The whole process is fake.

(COMMENT)

This is about who speaks for the Palestinian People.

• Is HAMAS an expired government?
• Does HAMAS now, or has it ever had, the authority to speak for the Palestinian People?

If there is a question here, it is something (your good bodies) the Arab League and Palestinian People have to work-out. If there is smoke, it is because the Arabs have set fire to something, not the Israelis or the Western Powers.

Either the outcomes of the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference stand or they don't!

In any event, it is up to the Arab to sort out.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not really.

Imposed preconditions have nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

Imposed decisions about representation has nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

 

[GISMYS]

PSALM 83:1-5==O God, do not remain quiet;
Do not be silent and, O God, do not be still.

2 For behold, Your enemies make an uproar,
And those who hate You have exalted themselves.

3 They make shrewd plans against Your people,
And conspire together against Your treasured ones.
4
They have said, “Come, and let us wipe them out as a nation,
That the name of Israel be remembered no more.”

5 For they have conspired together with one mind;
Against You they make a covenant:

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess this is one of those issues that we have to disagree on.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is an internal domestic issue.

What does all that smoke have to do with the elected government not being allowed at the table?

What about the preconditions? Any Palestinian who does no agree to the preconditions is not allowed at the table.

The whole process is fake.

(COMMENT)

This is about who speaks for the Palestinian People.

• Is HAMAS an expired government?
• Does HAMAS now, or has it ever had, the authority to speak for the Palestinian People?

If there is a question here, it is something (your good bodies) the Arab League and Palestinian People have to work-out. If there is smoke, it is because the Arabs have set fire to something, not the Israelis or the Western Powers.

Either the outcomes of the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference stand or they don't!

In any event, it is up to the Arab to sort out.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not really.

Imposed preconditions have nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

Imposed decisions about representation has nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

(COMMENT)

A precondition of any Treaty Talk (International Law) is that parties to the treaty must have the legal capacity to enter into an binding agreement. Clearly, you have an issue with who has the authority on the part of the Palestinian; a question of who holds that authority. The Arab League and the Western World recognize the PLO (Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman). You obviously disagree.

What can I say.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess this is one of those issues that we have to disagree on.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, this is an internal domestic issue.


(COMMENT)

This is about who speaks for the Palestinian People.

• Is HAMAS an expired government?
• Does HAMAS now, or has it ever had, the authority to speak for the Palestinian People?

If there is a question here, it is something (your good bodies) the Arab League and Palestinian People have to work-out. If there is smoke, it is because the Arabs have set fire to something, not the Israelis or the Western Powers.

Either the outcomes of the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference stand or they don't!

In any event, it is up to the Arab to sort out.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not really.

Imposed preconditions have nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

Imposed decisions about representation has nothing to do with internal domestic issues.

(COMMENT)

A precondition of any Treaty Talk (International Law) is that parties to the treaty must have the legal capacity to enter into an binding agreement. Clearly, you have an issue with who has the authority on the part of the Palestinian; a question of who holds that authority. The Arab League and the Western World recognize the PLO (Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman). You obviously disagree.

What can I say.

Most Respectfully,
R

What about the surrender and disarm precondition.

Abbas can make any agreement he wants. It doesn't mean squat to the Palestinians.

So why do they keep insisting on a fake peace process?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Wow, this is strong talk!

What about the surrender and disarm precondition.

(COMMENT)

Capacity is one of the absolute requisites for any treaty. Status of Forces and Truce conditions are general conditions for peace negotiations. It is beyond my expertise.

Abbas can make any agreement he wants. It doesn't mean squat to the Palestinians.

So why do they keep insisting on a fake peace process?

(COMMENT)

You are obviously an advocate for anti-Palestinian Government elements. If nothing that PLO (Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman) Team agrees to is binding to the Palestinian, then, of course you are correct. The Talks are failed due to a lack of capacity and good faith on the Part of the Palestinians. And this would just add to the list of historical behaviors that would lead a reasonable and prudent person to believe that the majority of Palestinians are Hostile and operating outside the concept of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States."

But it would also suggest, coincidentally, that the State of Palestine is yet another failed Arab Regime.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Wow, this is strong talk!

What about the surrender and disarm precondition.

(COMMENT)

Capacity is one of the absolute requisites for any treaty. Status of Forces and Truce conditions are general conditions for peace negotiations. It is beyond my expertise.

Abbas can make any agreement he wants. It doesn't mean squat to the Palestinians.

So why do they keep insisting on a fake peace process?

(COMMENT)

You are obviously an advocate for anti-Palestinian Government elements. If nothing that PLO (Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman) Team agrees to is binding to the Palestinian, then, of course you are correct. The Talks are failed due to a lack of capacity and good faith on the Part of the Palestinians. And this would just add to the list of historical behaviors that would lead a reasonable and prudent person to believe that the majority of Palestinians are Hostile and operating outside the concept of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States."

But it would also suggest, coincidentally, that the State of Palestine is yet another failed Arab Regime.

Most Respectfully,
R

[/QUOTE]

Foreigners deciding who has the "capacity" to make an agreement has nothing to do with the Palestinians