Why do you support Ukraine?

[meaner gene]

During World War II the United States and the British were also keeping track of each other just as the Soviets and the Americans were keeping track of each other.

There was a rivalry between the British and the American some people forget that just as there was a sort of rivalry between the Soviet and the Americans during World War II.

The Soviet union trusted Americans to work on their airfield. The Soviet union trusted that we were sending them equipment that was not malfunctioning

You have it all wrong. The Americans and the British shared intelligence, remember enigma. Shared technology, from radar to the jet engine.

The soviets got aircraft, but not our very best, because they needed them. But don't forget, they stole our B-29 after they landed in Russia.

 

[MarcATL]

My first reason is based on principle, Ukraine is a free and autonomous and Democratic country, minding their own business and Russia is a foreign agitator invading their borders. That, in and of itself, is worth supporting Ukraine.

Secondly, Russia has been pushing it and pushing it and pushing it, for many decades now, doing more, taking more, offending more. If they don't get stopped now, when will they stop? Hint: They won't. And America will end up having to deal w/them from a worse position in the future.

If you think I'm wrong on any of these points, please expound.

 

[meaner gene]

My first reason is based on principle, Ukraine is a free and autonomous country, minding their own business and Russia is a foreign agitator invading their borders. That, in and of itself, is worth supporting Ukraine.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. This much we pledge--and more.

 

[toobfreak]

My first reason is based on principle, Ukraine is a free and autonomous country

Then why is the country replete with government oppression?

minding their own business

I wish they'd go back to minding their own business and fight their own battles leaving us OUT OF IT.

and Russia is a foreign agitator invading their borders.

Just like the USA, England, and most every other country. Look next, China will be invading Taiwan! You gonna go to war to defend them? Huh?

That, in and of itself, is worth supporting Ukraine.

Then where was your support for Ukraine a few years ago losing the Crimea? And where was it when Tibet needed you? What?

 

[Hossfly]

There’s only one world in a nuclear war ruins it.

And I think that both the Russian government and the American government as well as the American population and the Russian population have work to do. We have both made mistakes in these past few years. We have to come together

It is shocking how Russians and Americans quickly forget about World War II and how we were allies. It is utterly and completely shocking how apparently much of the world just forgets about the holocaust and how every Jew in the world would have been exterminated if it wasn’t for the Soviets and the Americans working together. It really is unfortunate and we need to look at history and remember it. Remember the good things

People in my generation certainly haven't forgotten about WWII. We lived it.

 

[Kruska]

I don't support either parties in regards to a war, because the reason for this or any other war in the past 10000 years has never been different. And I am also neither Ukrainian nor Russian.
It has always been about certain parties $/economic interests (those of the elites in a society) against other certain elite parties $/economic interests.

If the common people oppose those elites - the latter usually represented via a government, it isn't called a war but civil unrest or revolution. Just as the revolution in the American colonies - (elites or wanna be elites) amongst the colonist, contra the established elites of Great Britain. Upon declaring a government run by colonist elites - it was termed as a war.

The common people are told and made to believe, since 10,000 years it's all about, democracy, freedom, religious or ethnic/cultural righteousness. Or e.g. my personal favorite, someone's beautiful wife was taken to Troy and marital matters needed to be set straight accordingly.

Since 1900 the USA has become the leading nation in this drive for $/economic dominance. After WW2 the only remaining rival was the Soviet-union countering via communism.
The Soviet-Union ceased to exist in 1991 and the Western world's general population was convinced that now Russia won't pose any serious thread towards a war - after all they had gone bankrupt and as such couldn't pose a danger towards the US/EU $/economic dominance, and for sure those Russians will be damn happy and grateful to finally become a member in this US/EU lead world economy. Ahhh... in this democratic and freedom minded world.

Countries that behold an autocratic political systems are hard or even impossible for the Western democratic economies to break into or to convert them. As such a total global dominance by the US/EU propagated/favored system is still not in sight.
Since communism proved to be an economic/social failure - almost all previous communist or socialist states became autocratic countries practicing capitalism.

Russia and e.g. China manged to get/regain a grip onto their economies - via an autocratic/capitalist system - and therefore made things again harder for the US/EU lead economic expansionists who's primary tools are based onto the democratic system. (and respective damn democratic oppositions and mean sniffling journalists are really a headache or even an impregnable barrier at times) NATO or the US Armed Forces are simply an extended means of pressing US/EU economic interests towards such opposition via a military backed solution/option. Therefore a Ukraine being a future NATO and EU member - will place a huge obstacle towards Russia's Ruble/economic interests, might even break their back.

In order to protect or expand Russian Ruble/economic interests - Putin can't allow for a further NATO/EU eastward expansion. Either Ukraine can be politically controlled by Moscow or at minimum settles with neutrality - if not, a war might offer a preliminary solution or even a final solution.

Right now I can't recall a single war since the Soviet Union ceased to exist, that wasn't based on a US/EU economic expansion or maintaining a status quo that was opposed/hindered by a country/leader maintaining an autocratic capitalist system.

Only money rules this world - nothing else.

 

[konradv]

This thread is meant for Americans who support Ukraine or I suppose Canadians or Europeans for that matter. Why do you support Ukraine?

Let me explain my position on the war I am neutral in the Russia Ukraine war. As an American I recognize that we invaded dated Iraq … for anyone here who supports Ukraine when we invaded Iraq in 2003 did you support Iraq? If not then what kind of logic do you have? When we went to war in Vietnam to defend south Vietnam from north Vietnam did you support north Vietnam ? because if you didn’t then why are you supporting Ukraine today?


Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia did not invade the United States of America. As an American I have no reason to be against Russia they did not support Saddam Hussein and Iraq in 2003 and they could have quite easily… but they did not they could’ve sent them tons and tons of F-16 jets or they could’ve sent them rifles they could’ve sent them plenty of tanks who knows chemical weapons they could’ve sent them many things that’s the point but they didn’t.


I suspect many people here support Ukraine because their government is telling them to do so. Because they see pictures on the media outlets including right wing and left wing …showing some Ukrainian refugees and children crying. Going by that same logic literally the same logic because we’re all human beings doesn’t matter what country you’re from unless somebody is a bigot. ….What about the grandmas in Iraq that were crying and screaming because of their dead grandchildren when the Americans invaded?

I can already imagine some of the far left wing and even the neo conservative responses

“ oh Saddam Hussein’s not the same thing as Zelenskyy”

Well actually Saddam Hussein had a huge amount of support from Iraqi Christians and from women in Iraq. And look at today Iraq is almost controlled by Iran and there’s many people in Iraq many people in the Arab nation that are against Iran they don’t like seeing women forced to cover their hair. But in Iraq and parts of Iraq that’s an issue now. Wasn’t like that in the 1980s or 1990s when by the way America support Iraq in a fight against Iran.

“ Ukrainian lives matter , CNN tells me this so I support Ukraine, can’t you see what Vladimir Putin is doing to Ukraine. Can’t you see how evil the Russians are. Don’t you see all the pictures of people crying in Ukraine

This is not a logical argument from the neoconservatives and from the left-wing Americans. And here is why …you could look at the photos from the Vietnam war of young Vietnamese babies being killed Vietnamese children crying.

There are individual Americans and individual Russians who have committed war crimes in war…but most Americans and most Russians just like most Ukrainians are good people. This all goes back to one thing you see America has invaded other countries so when Russia invaded Ukraine don’t throw that stone in the glass house.

Finally and here’s something really important to consider. Yes it is true that Russia is not really like Vietnam or Iraq in one singular extraordinary sense. Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the world.

What do previous wars have to do with the current situation? Ukraine is a smaller democracy being invaded by a larger dictatorship. Of course we should help them.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

What do previous wars have to do with the current situation? Ukraine is a smaller democracy being invaded by a larger dictatorship. Of course we should help them.

Everything my friend. Previous wars shapes our world and how we live in it. And you can flip the script why did the United States invade a much smaller country in Iraq in 2003.. a country that was thousands of miles away that had posed no threat to America, a country we were friends with in the war against Iran in the 1980s.

Ukraine is on Russia’s doorstep and Ukraine was once part of the Soviet Union and some percentage of Ukraine is pro Russian that’s the difference right there.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

What about the Christian and Muslim people of Iraq who had their homes blown up in 2003 who were forced to flee to different countries. What does the world think of those people. How about with those people have to say when they see some American politician get on TV and talk about how morally upright America is to help out Ukraine.

What about the Arab people of Palestine? What about that because America is giving billions of dollars to the Israeli defense forces. Why don’t the Talking Heads on CNN talk about getting weapons to the people of Palestine?

Point is support of Ukraine is clearly not about morals. I think the last great war United States fought for moral reasons was World War II.

 

[Circe]

My first reason is based on principle, Ukraine is a free and autonomous and Democratic country, minding their own business and Russia is a foreign agitator invading their borders. That, in and of itself, is worth supporting Ukraine.

Secondly, Russia has been pushing it and pushing it and pushing it, for many decades now, doing more, taking more, offending more. If they don't get stopped now, when will they stop? Hint: They won't. And America will end up having to deal w/them from a worse position in the future.

If you think I'm wrong on any of these points, please expound.

I hate this kind of gimmicky posting with alternate works bolded. Some people try it with colored text, who knows what. Yuck.

 

[Circe]

What do previous wars have to do with the current situation? Ukraine is a smaller democracy being invaded by a larger dictatorship. Of course we should help them.

No, we should close and defend our own borders. Today I saw a segment on TV about the Latinos coming in now thru Canada ---- 56,000 just this past year.

Our borders have collapsed, but the Biden administration wants to fight for Ukraine???? Darn. I'll never support that, and no more aid, either. Weapons aid always leads to our soldiers going over there. Let them take care of themselves and let's get a prez who cares something, anything, about this country! We sure don't have one now.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

because I hate putin and what he stands for. The guy is a fascist creep that shits on human rights, freedom and freedom of expression. I have to ask why you support him? That isn't something FDR would be ok with.

You do realise you just described zelensky who is funded by NATO to a tee right?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

As I have said before many times: "Putin the Commie, is the lesser of 2 evils. Zelensky, the Nazi is the most evil of the two. I feel compassion for the honest citizens of both countries but the leaders of both countries deserve to be hung off the sign of an Aral gas station like their uncle Benito Mussolini.

Yes, but we already know your dementia flares up whenever the subject of Ukraine is brought up and you see Nazis everywhere. Is there one under your bed right now?

 

[Circe]

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. This much we pledge--and more.

Let's resuscitate our own liberty and survival first.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

"one country is the aggressor without violent provocation
while the other is defending their homeland".

"Hey buddy, are you really sure I'm one of your heroes?

I'm asking you because I invaded the island of Grenada
to stop the expansion of the Warsaw Pact
just like Putin invaded Ukraine to stop the expansion of NATO."

Wrong!

You need a history lesson.

 

[Hossfly]

Yes, but we already know your dementia flares up whenever the subject of Ukraine is brought up and you see Nazis everywhere. Is there one under your bed right now?

No, I killed it and ate it.

Yes there are Nazis in Ukraine but they are controlled by the Khazarian Mafia that no one here bothers to research.

 

[skye]

God! I don't support Ukraine!

Not under the corrupt puppet called Zelensky! NO WAY!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Women in Thailand and Vietnam are pretty darn hot though

Depends on your taste. I have yet to see an Asian woman I thought to be attractive, but that is just me.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Well I have friends from the former Soviet union one is a 75-year-old Muslim guy from Uzbekistan. The guy is really cool he’s a white Muslim guy he’s got a lot of respect for the Soviet history and he’s a hard-working man a really great guy.

No one has a gun pointed to his head and he says that the Soviet days were a lot better than what he saw in the Russian federation and today in America.

Well I believe that part of American exceptionalism which is something I don’t think it’s good at all …is this view that the United States can invade other countries but when another country launches an invasion it is somehow different or evil. That somehow America can invade Iraq with the intention of only invading Iraq but that Russia will somehow go after Germany or Poland after Ukraine ….something that seems completely surreal and impossible. Ukraine is on the border of Russia. And Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet union. One might even argue that Russia was more justified to invade Ukraine then America was to invade Iraq in 2003 …a country that was thousands of miles away that posed absolutely no threat to America.

Btw Saddam Hussein donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to American churches. The man was respected by Iraqi Arabs and Arabs all over the world and respected by Christians and he was our ally in the 1980s against Iran. But like Zelenskyy and I suppose like Vladimir Putin in Lake George W Bush …Saddam Hussein also had his opponents.

Oh, this I have to see! Got a link?

Did you know he was paying the families of terrorists who attacked Israel?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No, I killed it and ate it.

Yes there are Nazis in Ukraine but they are controlled by the Khazarian Mafia that no one here bothers to research.

Who the fuck cares about your fantasies?