Why do the God-haters persist?

[GISMYS]

So then why do people like myself and millions more have no profound spiritual connection? Are we then unable to "rationalize right from wrong"?
Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator".

Because you choose to reject it. If you are able to rationalize right from wrong, you have evidence of your spiritual connection. Whether you choose to acknowledge it is another matter.

Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made.

‘Spirituality,’ ‘religion,’ ‘god,’ it makes no difference – as all are creations of man, where ‘god’ as perceived by theists doesn’t exists, and consequently there’s nothing to ‘hate.’

YOU PROVE THIS SCRIPTURE TRUE======The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile. Pssalm 53:1

 

[Boss]

So then why do people like myself and millions more have no profound spiritual connection? Are we then unable to "rationalize right from wrong"?
Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator".

Because you choose to reject it. If you are able to rationalize right from wrong, you have evidence of your spiritual connection. Whether you choose to acknowledge it is another matter.

Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made.

Your point isn't made for the link between right and wrong and spirituality, you're just a ******* noob who pontificates as though you're the only one who knows the truth, when in actuality, you have no clue.

"Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made." Maybe that's because I never tried to make that point.

Well you stated the following: "Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator"." Sounds to me like you are saying spiritual connection is part of religion, it's right there in your own words. This is not true. Religion is a part of spiritual connection. Various incarnations of a "Creator" are also part of spiritual connection.

Now you say my point about spirituality and knowing right from wrong is not made and I am just a "noob" who thinks he knows the truth.... but I'm not seeing where you refuted my point with evidence. Thought you were all about evidence and the scientific method? Why do you believe you can make these grandiose pronouncements of who has made their point? Did someone or something bestow the authority on you to make this call?

The way I see it, if you can't refute my argument, you should say, "I never thought of it that way, Boss, you make a good point, I can't argue with that." Instead, you simply reject my argument without any basis and pretend you've done so legitimately. This tells me you're just another closed-minded idiot who thinks his opinion is empirical fact and can't be questioned. That seems to be an epidemic around here.

 

[Boss]

So then why do people like myself and millions more have no profound spiritual connection? Are we then unable to "rationalize right from wrong"?
Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator".

Because you choose to reject it. If you are able to rationalize right from wrong, you have evidence of your spiritual connection. Whether you choose to acknowledge it is another matter.

Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made.

‘Spirituality,’ ‘religion,’ ‘god,’ it makes no difference – as all are creations of man, where ‘god’ as perceived by theists doesn’t exists, and consequently there’s nothing to ‘hate.’

No they're not, and you've failed to prove this repeatedly. Religion is the creation of man. Spirituality has been present in man since the beginning. God is who is on the other end of our spiritual connection, and man has created various incarnations of God through the ages, but this only proves the spiritual connection is real and not imagined.

If there is nothing to hate, why do we see so much hate? If there is nothing to it, why are people so passionately opposed to it? Nothing in logic or reason supports this.

You will claim that humans "invented" spirituality to cope with fears of death or explain the unknown, but if this were true, we'd see evidence of other creatures inventing imaginary placebos to console themselves, and that's not present in nature. If it were imaginary and nothing to it, the attribute would have disappeared in man as kings and rulers killed off scores of the species out of jealousy... or else, Darwin was completely wrong about natural selection. We've retained the attribute, it's still as strong in mankind as ever. It can't be stomped out of our hearts, no matter how hard you try. The spiritual connection is real.

 

[koshergrl]

Your join date is March 2014, Mr. Max. Boss has 2 years on you.

Whoops your slip is showing.

Wtf does that have to do with anything?

I'm just questioning the intelligence of a poster who calls someone who has been here 2 years longer than he has a "******* noob" with something to prove.

Seriously. You're the noob...is there anything more stupid looking than someone who points a finger in his own face and then insults himself?

 

[MaryL]

God HATERS? People are a mixed bag. But when the forces of the universe, random or guided, when bad things happen to good people, (yes, I read the book) I makes you question the nature of the universe. I don't hate god, that would be childish. I totally doubt God's existence. Not hatefully, everyone does it. Every pope, every saint, every Muslim suicide bomber. Even you. Even atheists have doubts. Pascal's wager reminds me that if there is a GOD, God will forgive the atheists. But, call it Mary's razor, if there isn't a god, then all people that ever practiced religion wasted their lives and devotion for absolutely NOTHING. Everything they did, for what? Martyrdom, wars, restrictions, all that, for what?

 

[koshergrl]

Pascal's wrong.

God will not forgive the atheists. They rejected God, and they will suffer the consequences.

I know. Dirty word. Atheists hate God because they recognize that he will impose consequences upon them for rejecting him, repeatedly.

Oh well.

 

[Montrovant]

Pascal's wrong.

God will not forgive the atheists. They rejected God, and they will suffer the consequences.

I know. Dirty word. Atheists hate God because they recognize that he will impose consequences upon them for rejecting him, repeatedly.

Oh well.

Except, of course, for the problem that atheists don't, by definition, believe in god.



Hey, we're back to where this thread has been again!

 

[MrMax]

Your join date is March 2014, Mr. Max. Boss has 2 years on you.

Whoops your slip is showing.

Wtf does that have to do with anything?

I'm just questioning the intelligence of a poster who calls someone who has been here 2 years longer than he has a "******* noob" with something to prove.

Seriously. You're the noob...is there anything more stupid looking than someone who points a finger in his own face and then insults himself?

If he argues like a noob... And quacks like a noob...

 

[Boss]

Pascal's wrong.

God will not forgive the atheists. They rejected God, and they will suffer the consequences.

I know. Dirty word. Atheists hate God because they recognize that he will impose consequences upon them for rejecting him, repeatedly.

Oh well.

Except, of course, for the problem that atheists don't, by definition, believe in god.



Hey, we're back to where this thread has been again!

Which is why it is very convenient and provides the perfect cover for God-haters.

 

[MrMax]

Because you choose to reject it. If you are able to rationalize right from wrong, you have evidence of your spiritual connection. Whether you choose to acknowledge it is another matter.

Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made.

Your point isn't made for the link between right and wrong and spirituality, you're just a ******* noob who pontificates as though you're the only one who knows the truth, when in actuality, you have no clue.

"Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made." Maybe that's because I never tried to make that point.

Well you stated the following: "Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator"." Sounds to me like you are saying spiritual connection is part of religion, it's right there in your own words. This is not true. Religion is a part of spiritual connection. Various incarnations of a "Creator" are also part of spiritual connection.

Now you say my point about spirituality and knowing right from wrong is not made and I am just a "noob" who thinks he knows the truth.... but I'm not seeing where you refuted my point with evidence. Thought you were all about evidence and the scientific method? Why do you believe you can make these grandiose pronouncements of who has made their point? Did someone or something bestow the authority on you to make this call?

The way I see it, if you can't refute my argument, you should say, "I never thought of it that way, Boss, you make a good point, I can't argue with that." Instead, you simply reject my argument without any basis and pretend you've done so legitimately. This tells me you're just another closed-minded idiot who thinks his opinion is empirical fact and can't be questioned. That seems to be an epidemic around here.

You never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality, and you want ME to prove my statement that you never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality. The lack of your proof is my proof. Get it? You ******* noob.

 

[Boss]

You never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality, and you want ME to prove my statement that you never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality. The lack of your proof is my proof. Get it? You ******* noob.

Well the proof is, we make spiritual connection and other animals don't. We also have a sense of right and wrong and other animals don't. Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is these are directly related to each other. This would also be the biological conclusion of any other species ever examined. If salmon only swim upstream to spawn and you observe a salmon swimming upstream, it's probably not going sightseeing. If cherry blossoms only bloom on cherry trees in the spring and you see cherry blossoms on a tree, it's safe to say it's a cherry tree in spring. If you witness someone on a message board who is unable to make their points and resorts to personal insults and denigrations, they are probably an idiot.

Now, do you have any scientific evidence to offer, that the unique human attribute of spirituality and the unique human attribute of knowing right from wrong are unrelated?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Well I agree with you that God is of a spiritual nature.though he is also of a physical nature. I thought that you also said that God was a manmade concept, but in this quote you say that religion is....

I don't believe that is true, but I am comforted that you don't think God is likewise created by man.

And I agree that God is manifest in simply the presence and existence of physical nature. God created it.

The human spiritual connection to spiritual nature far predates any "religious" belief. For many thousands of years, mankind had deep spiritual connection, long before the thought of establishing a formal religion. These religions are manifestations of our human spiritual connection, and I believe the fact that so many various religions exist, is evidence that we don't fully comprehend God or Spiritual Nature. Perhaps Christianity comes closest? Perhaps some other religions do as well? I won't argue this because it's obvious many people have found a way to connect to Spiritual Nature through religious faith, and mostly that's a good thing.

Regardless of whether you share my beliefs on God, it should be obvious to anyone who studies humanity, human nature and behavior, or biology, that spiritual nature does exist and is not "made up" by man. Many can argue over what God is, but you cannot deny Spiritual Nature exists and we have the capacity to connect with it. For all intents and purposes, that IS God.

Religion was invented because of man's ignorance to the universe around him, as a way to explain the unknown. Now you know.

must not have worked.....most of the posts I see tell me people are still ignorant......

 

[PostmodernProph]

So then why do people like myself and millions more have no profound spiritual connection? Are we then unable to "rationalize right from wrong"?
Your spiritual connection is part of religion, so is your "Creator".

for the most part you've shown yourself unable, yes......I see people killing unborn children, I see racism, I see drug abuse, I see war......none of those things are taught by religion......

 

[PostmodernProph]

How is the hell not a threat?

????.....since the only ones who will end up there are people who refuse to believe it even exists, how can you call it a threat?......

 

[Montrovant]

Because you choose to reject it. If you are able to rationalize right from wrong, you have evidence of your spiritual connection. Whether you choose to acknowledge it is another matter.

Religion did not precede spirituality. Sorry, your point is not made.

‘Spirituality,’ ‘religion,’ ‘god,’ it makes no difference – as all are creations of man, where ‘god’ as perceived by theists doesn’t exists, and consequently there’s nothing to ‘hate.’

No they're not, and you've failed to prove this repeatedly. Religion is the creation of man. Spirituality has been present in man since the beginning. God is who is on the other end of our spiritual connection, and man has created various incarnations of God through the ages, but this only proves the spiritual connection is real and not imagined.

If there is nothing to hate, why do we see so much hate? If there is nothing to it, why are people so passionately opposed to it? Nothing in logic or reason supports this.

You will claim that humans "invented" spirituality to cope with fears of death or explain the unknown, but if this were true, we'd see evidence of other creatures inventing imaginary placebos to console themselves, and that's not present in nature. If it were imaginary and nothing to it, the attribute would have disappeared in man as kings and rulers killed off scores of the species out of jealousy... or else, Darwin was completely wrong about natural selection. We've retained the attribute, it's still as strong in mankind as ever. It can't be stomped out of our hearts, no matter how hard you try. The spiritual connection is real.

WTF? If spirituality is a human invention we'd see other animals doing it? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, having seen this conversation before, I'm pretty sure you'll contend that human intelligence and reasoning are products of our spiritual nature.

 

[Montrovant]

You never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality, and you want ME to prove my statement that you never proved the connection between knowing right and wrong and spirituality. The lack of your proof is my proof. Get it? You ******* noob.

Well the proof is, we make spiritual connection and other animals don't. We also have a sense of right and wrong and other animals don't. Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is these are directly related to each other. This would also be the biological conclusion of any other species ever examined. If salmon only swim upstream to spawn and you observe a salmon swimming upstream, it's probably not going sightseeing. If cherry blossoms only bloom on cherry trees in the spring and you see cherry blossoms on a tree, it's safe to say it's a cherry tree in spring. If you witness someone on a message board who is unable to make their points and resorts to personal insults and denigrations, they are probably an idiot.

Now, do you have any scientific evidence to offer, that the unique human attribute of spirituality and the unique human attribute of knowing right from wrong are unrelated?

Occam's Razor says the simplest answer is often the correct one, not that spiritual connections are related to right and wrong.

However, I would agree they are related, as both are products of human intelligence and reasoning.

That doesn't mean spirituality is based on something real or that spirituality is imagined. It just means that most, if not all, other animals lack the ability to understand the kinds of concepts involved with either spirituality or morality.

Do you have any scientific evidence that spirituality and knowing right from wrong are related? Other than through our higher intelligence as I've pointed out, of course.

 

[Boss]

‘Spirituality,’ ‘religion,’ ‘god,’ it makes no difference – as all are creations of man, where ‘god’ as perceived by theists doesn’t exists, and consequently there’s nothing to ‘hate.’

No they're not, and you've failed to prove this repeatedly. Religion is the creation of man. Spirituality has been present in man since the beginning. God is who is on the other end of our spiritual connection, and man has created various incarnations of God through the ages, but this only proves the spiritual connection is real and not imagined.

If there is nothing to hate, why do we see so much hate? If there is nothing to it, why are people so passionately opposed to it? Nothing in logic or reason supports this.

You will claim that humans "invented" spirituality to cope with fears of death or explain the unknown, but if this were true, we'd see evidence of other creatures inventing imaginary placebos to console themselves, and that's not present in nature. If it were imaginary and nothing to it, the attribute would have disappeared in man as kings and rulers killed off scores of the species out of jealousy... or else, Darwin was completely wrong about natural selection. We've retained the attribute, it's still as strong in mankind as ever. It can't be stomped out of our hearts, no matter how hard you try. The spiritual connection is real.

WTF? If spirituality is a human invention we'd see other animals doing it? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, having seen this conversation before, I'm pretty sure you'll contend that human intelligence and reasoning are products of our spiritual nature.

Nothing else in nature invents imaginary things to cope with their mortality. Where'd this "evolve" from? Couldn't have been common ancestors of great apes, they don't invent imaginary things to cope with their mortality.

Intelligence and reasoning are present in other species. Humans have a unique ability to reason what is morally right and wrong and behave accordingly. This comes from human spiritual connection. Other animals lack the ability to spiritually connect, and thus, lack the ability to reason moral right and wrong or behave accordingly. They naturally behave by primal instinct. This isn't because their brain is different, because we can train them to reason right and wrong through rewards and consequences. So they have the ability to, they just don't naturally do it.

 

[Gadawg73]

No they're not, and you've failed to prove this repeatedly. Religion is the creation of man. Spirituality has been present in man since the beginning. God is who is on the other end of our spiritual connection, and man has created various incarnations of God through the ages, but this only proves the spiritual connection is real and not imagined.

If there is nothing to hate, why do we see so much hate? If there is nothing to it, why are people so passionately opposed to it? Nothing in logic or reason supports this.

You will claim that humans "invented" spirituality to cope with fears of death or explain the unknown, but if this were true, we'd see evidence of other creatures inventing imaginary placebos to console themselves, and that's not present in nature. If it were imaginary and nothing to it, the attribute would have disappeared in man as kings and rulers killed off scores of the species out of jealousy... or else, Darwin was completely wrong about natural selection. We've retained the attribute, it's still as strong in mankind as ever. It can't be stomped out of our hearts, no matter how hard you try. The spiritual connection is real.

WTF? If spirituality is a human invention we'd see other animals doing it? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, having seen this conversation before, I'm pretty sure you'll contend that human intelligence and reasoning are products of our spiritual nature.

Nothing else in nature invents imaginary things to cope with their mortality. Where'd this "evolve" from? Couldn't have been common ancestors of great apes, they don't invent imaginary things to cope with their mortality.

Intelligence and reasoning are present in other species. Humans have a unique ability to reason what is morally right and wrong and behave accordingly. This comes from human spiritual connection. Other animals lack the ability to spiritually connect, and thus, lack the ability to reason moral right and wrong or behave accordingly. They naturally behave by primal instinct. This isn't because their brain is different, because we can train them to reason right and wrong through rewards and consequences. So they have the ability to, they just don't naturally do it.

Our species never had any unique ability to reason what is morally right and wrong was/is until we were TAUGHT.

 

[Montrovant]

No they're not, and you've failed to prove this repeatedly. Religion is the creation of man. Spirituality has been present in man since the beginning. God is who is on the other end of our spiritual connection, and man has created various incarnations of God through the ages, but this only proves the spiritual connection is real and not imagined.

If there is nothing to hate, why do we see so much hate? If there is nothing to it, why are people so passionately opposed to it? Nothing in logic or reason supports this.

You will claim that humans "invented" spirituality to cope with fears of death or explain the unknown, but if this were true, we'd see evidence of other creatures inventing imaginary placebos to console themselves, and that's not present in nature. If it were imaginary and nothing to it, the attribute would have disappeared in man as kings and rulers killed off scores of the species out of jealousy... or else, Darwin was completely wrong about natural selection. We've retained the attribute, it's still as strong in mankind as ever. It can't be stomped out of our hearts, no matter how hard you try. The spiritual connection is real.

WTF? If spirituality is a human invention we'd see other animals doing it? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, having seen this conversation before, I'm pretty sure you'll contend that human intelligence and reasoning are products of our spiritual nature.

Nothing else in nature invents imaginary things to cope with their mortality. Where'd this "evolve" from? Couldn't have been common ancestors of great apes, they don't invent imaginary things to cope with their mortality.

Intelligence and reasoning are present in other species. Humans have a unique ability to reason what is morally right and wrong and behave accordingly. This comes from human spiritual connection. Other animals lack the ability to spiritually connect, and thus, lack the ability to reason moral right and wrong or behave accordingly. They naturally behave by primal instinct. This isn't because their brain is different, because we can train them to reason right and wrong through rewards and consequences. So they have the ability to, they just don't naturally do it.

It is because their brains are different, actually. We can't teach them to speak our languages, write or read. We can't teach them a plethora of concepts and ideas and technology unique to humans.

And we don't generally teach animals to reason right and wrong. Animals aren't learning morality because they get a treat for a certain action, for instance. They are just learning a way to earn a treat.

Besides, by your reasoning, to teach an animal right and wrong, wouldn't they need a spiritual connection? If they have a spiritual connection, it's not unique to humans, so your arguments about the human uniqueness of spirituality would fall flat, yes?

Do other animals imagine much of anything? You continue to compare humans to other animals as though our mental abilities are equal.

 

[Boss]

You continue to compare humans to other animals as though our mental abilities are equal.

Indeed, they are not equal. That is the point.