Why do the God-haters persist?

[BillyP]

As you've been shown, in physics, cold is merely the absence of heat energy. You say -20 is "******* cold" but it's nearly boiling compared to -459. In fact, if you ever have a chance to see liquid nitrogen in an open container, you will notice it appears to be boiling. It is actually -212 degrees, but exposed to ambient room temperature of 72 degrees, it is in fact "boiling." So "cold" becomes a relative term.

The point of the examples are, the lack of actual physical evidence for the "existence" of things like "cold" and "dark." We have physical evidence of heat and light, those can be quantified. Cold and dark denote an absence of the aforementioned. Yet you demonstrate beautifully how much devout faith you have in their existence.

I can also make the same point about time. The only actual "time" that can be "proven to exist" is the current state of present. The past no longer exists, it existed once as present, it's now gone forever. The future doesn't yet exist, it will eventually exist as present, then it will be gone forever. Now most people recognize time exists, but the only physical presence of time is present time. So there are many things that we can't physically prove the existence of, yet they do exist and we are aware of them.

I don't believe in something akin Santa Claus. You disbelieve in a God that is akin to Santa Claus to you, and you are projecting that on me. You assume that what I believe in is what you disbelieve, and you are wrong.

I don't disbelieve, I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way. Show me actual proof and I'll change my mind. Can't be any fairer than that.

Well... show me proof that cold exists or dark, or time.

Winter, nightime and a watch. Anything else?

 

[Boss]

I don't disbelieve, I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way. Show me actual proof and I'll change my mind. Can't be any fairer than that.

Well... show me proof that cold exists or dark, or time.

Winter, nightime and a watch. Anything else?

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

 

[BillyP]

Well... show me proof that cold exists or dark, or time.

Winter, nightime and a watch. Anything else?

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

 

[Boss]

Winter, nightime and a watch. Anything else?

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

And if you have any actual proof of cold, dark and time, I will also listen.

I find it hard to believe that a smart ass who makes "Santa Claus" comments and "invisible sky fairy" retorts, is serous about being anything near objective.

 

[BillyP]

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

And if you have any actual proof of cold, dark and time, I will also listen.

I find it hard to believe that a smart ass who makes "Santa Claus" comments and "invisible sky fairy" retorts, is serous about being anything near objective.

Actually, there's more proof of Santa Claus than your god, because someone had to have eaten those cookies I left for him when I was 5.

 

[Boss]

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

And if you have any actual proof of cold, dark and time, I will also listen.

I find it hard to believe that a smart ass who makes "Santa Claus" comments and "invisible sky fairy" retorts, is serous about being anything near objective.

Actually, there's more proof of Santa Claus than your god, because someone had to have eaten those cookies I left for him when I was 5.

Hey, if you're fine with continuing to demonstrate that you're a liar and have no intention of being objective, that's fine with me. You don't even have any idea of what "my god" is. It does not have to be proven to you. You're completely free to believe what you want to believe, but you're not going to get away with lying about your willingness to be objective, I'll call you out for that and show people what a liar you are every time.

 

[BillyP]

And if you have any actual proof of cold, dark and time, I will also listen.

I find it hard to believe that a smart ass who makes "Santa Claus" comments and "invisible sky fairy" retorts, is serous about being anything near objective.

Actually, there's more proof of Santa Claus than your god, because someone had to have eaten those cookies I left for him when I was 5.

Hey, if you're fine with continuing to demonstrate that you're a liar and have no intention of being objective, that's fine with me. You don't even have any idea of what "my god" is. It does not have to be proven to you. You're completely free to believe what you want to believe, but you're not going to get away with lying about your willingness to be objective, I'll call you out for that and show people what a liar you are every time.

Me thinks that you come here to pontificate about your god because you're not too sure about it all yourself, and threads like this make you flesh out your ideas, which make you unsure, so you try out new ideas, which make you unsure... You get the idea.

 

[Boss]

Actually, there's more proof of Santa Claus than your god, because someone had to have eaten those cookies I left for him when I was 5.

Hey, if you're fine with continuing to demonstrate that you're a liar and have no intention of being objective, that's fine with me. You don't even have any idea of what "my god" is. It does not have to be proven to you. You're completely free to believe what you want to believe, but you're not going to get away with lying about your willingness to be objective, I'll call you out for that and show people what a liar you are every time.

Me thinks that you come here to pontificate about your god because you're not too sure about it all yourself, and threads like this make you flesh out your ideas, which make you unsure, so you try out new ideas, which make you unsure... You get the idea.

lmao.. You really haven't been following this thread, have you?

 

[hobelim]

Winter, nightime and a watch. Anything else?

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

God is incorporeal, pure mind. If you want to see proof of God you must have a pure mind.

If in your mind you are seeking proof of the existence of God as defined by a superficial literal interpretation of scripture perpetuated by the superstitious, you will look and look and look for evidence but you will never find anything.

In other words if what you believe about God is false because you are looking for the God defined by Christians, a triune god made man, you will never find it because it does not exist and what Christians profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

If you look and look and keep on looking for a more rational interpretation of scripture that conforms to the image of a loving and benevolent God by discerning the deeper implications of the words and subjects written, then everywhere you look you will see evidence of God.

 

[BillyP]

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

God is incorporeal, pure mind. If you want to see proof of God you must have a pure mind.

If in your mind you are seeking proof of the existence of God as defined as defined by a superficial literal interpretation of scripture perpetuated by the superstitious, you will look and look and look for evidence but you will never find anything.

In other words if what you believe about God is false because you are looking for the God defined by Christians, a triune god made man, you will never find it because it does not exist and what Christians profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

If you look and look and keep on looking for a more rational interpretation of scripture that conforms to the image of a loving and benevolent God by discerning the deeper implications of the words and subjects written, then everywhere you look you will see evidence of God.

In other words, you got nothing. Got it.

 

[Boss]

In other words, you got nothing. Got it.

Seems to me he had something and you couldn't refute it. That's beginning to be a pattern here. hobelim and myself rarely ever agree on anything, in fact we may have never agreed on anything, probably don't agree on the subject of God either, but both he and I have attempted to engage you in honest objective discourse, only to have you reject what we said without rebuttal. If your goal is to come here and proclaim that no one here can make you believe in God... guess what? You win! That's not going to happen, none of us expect it to. So... you win, give yourself a cookie and go surf porn!

 

[Slyhunter]

Relevant information? You believe in something akin to Santa Claus, how do you counter that? You want me to break a little kid's heart?

-20 is ******* cold, a measure of how cold it is compared to say, -5, which is a lot less cold. Geez, no wonder you see invisible beings.

Fahrenheit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
vs

neither measures cold.
Then there is what they call Absolute 0, the total absence of all heat.

Absolute zero is the lower limit of the thermodynamic temperature scale, a state at which the enthalpy and entropy of a cooled ideal gas reaches its minimum value, taken as 0. The theoretical temperature is determined by extrapolating the ideal gas law; by international agreement, absolute zero is taken as −273.15° on the Celsius scale (International System of Units),[1][2] which equates to −459.67° on the Fahrenheit scale (English/United States customary units).[3] The corresponding Kelvin and Rankine temperature scales set their zero points at absolute zero by definition.

It is commonly thought of as the lowest temperature possible, but it is not the lowest enthalpy state possible, because all real substances begin to depart from the ideal gas when cooled as they approach the change of state to liquid, and then to solid; and the sum of the enthalpy of vaporization (gas to liquid) and enthalpy of fusion (liquid to solid) exceeds the ideal gas's change in enthalpy to absolute zero. In the quantum-mechanical description, matter (solid) at absolute zero is in its ground state, the point of lowest internal energy.

The laws of thermodynamics dictate that absolute zero cannot be reached using only thermodynamic means,[clarification needed] as the temperature of the substance being cooled approaches the temperature of the cooling agent asymptotically. A system at absolute zero still possesses quantum mechanical zero-point energy, the energy of its ground state. The kinetic energy of the ground state cannot be removed.

Scientists have achieved temperatures extremely close to absolute zero, where matter exhibits quantum effects such as superconductivity and superfluidity.

Absolute zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All temperature measurements measure heat not cold. Cold is the absence of heat. Dark is the absence of light.

Sorry, but in the real world, cold is measured by the minus sign, as in, -15, which on a proper scale, is 15 degrees below the freezing point. We don't call that 150 degrees above absolute zero, or whatever it is, we call it -15, and people can tell by that how cold it is. Wind chill adds to that coldness, and we don't call that taking more heat away, but getting colder. Pretty simple really. But I guess you have to argue about something, right?

Actually, in the real world, +30 degrees Fahrenheit is the freezing temperature of water. You're being very ignorant.

 

[Montrovant]

Fahrenheit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
vs

neither measures cold.
Then there is what they call Absolute 0, the total absence of all heat.

Absolute zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All temperature measurements measure heat not cold. Cold is the absence of heat. Dark is the absence of light.

Sorry, but in the real world, cold is measured by the minus sign, as in, -15, which on a proper scale, is 15 degrees below the freezing point. We don't call that 150 degrees above absolute zero, or whatever it is, we call it -15, and people can tell by that how cold it is. Wind chill adds to that coldness, and we don't call that taking more heat away, but getting colder. Pretty simple really. But I guess you have to argue about something, right?

Actually, in the real world, +30 degrees Fahrenheit is the freezing temperature of water. You're being very ignorant.

That assumes he isn't using Celsius.

Also, as far as I'm aware, the freezing temp of water is 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

It's no good pointing out someone's ignorance with an incorrect statement.

 

[BreezeWood]

Well... show me proof that cold exists or dark, or time.

Actually, in the real world,

actually in the real world it would be cold and dark as the default existence where the advent of the universe began as light and warmth ... what light or warmth was there that shed upon the Big Bang (before the bang) ?

.

 

[sealybobo]

You made reference in the past to hell. What makes you believe in heaven & hell if you aren't a member of one of the organized religions?

And I don't see the problem of me fantasizing about beautiful women I know but will never be with. There is a hot mom here right now in the lobby waiting for her kid to be done with his lesson. I would suck on her toes and eat her ***** all night! Does she know? Of course not stupid.

Well she probably doesn't know because if you expressed your fantasy to her she'd have you arrested or her husband would come whip your ass. But the other day, we were discussing how laws may be changed to allow people the freedom of sexual expression, in which case, you might feel more inclined to put the moves on mom, or maybe even whip it out and start jerking it while she sits there waiting. Hey... that's not harming anyone, is it? Why should we be confined to these antiquated laws based on religious beliefs? What's wrong with a man just being able to whip his dick out and masturbate when he sees a foxy babe like that? Right?

Actually, regarding flirting/hitting on women, the laws are going the opposite way. Today now you get in trouble just for making woman feel uncomfortable. Did you see the thing on facebook where the women were complaining about cat calls? Pahleez ladies. Wait till your looks fade and the cats calls stop coming. Then you'll cry because no one is hitting on you anymore.

Do you know what the difference between harassment and flirting is? If she likes it. If she doesn't you are a creep. If she likes you it's just flirting. So I don't hit on moms at work unless they start it because then it'd be uncomfortable if she's not into it.

Sorry Boss, you think you caught me in a lie but back when I did blow I believed in god. Apparently not enough that he kept me from putting that shit up my nose.

 

[sealybobo]

In other words, you got nothing. Got it.

Seems to me he had something and you couldn't refute it. That's beginning to be a pattern here. hobelim and myself rarely ever agree on anything, in fact we may have never agreed on anything, probably don't agree on the subject of God either, but both he and I have attempted to engage you in honest objective discourse, only to have you reject what we said without rebuttal. If your goal is to come here and proclaim that no one here can make you believe in God... guess what? You win! That's not going to happen, none of us expect it to. So... you win, give yourself a cookie and go surf porn!

What we've come to realize is there are going to be a few dopes like you who despite all the facts, evidence & reasoned logic, you are still going to believe no matter how little proof you have. In fact, you'll use bad evidence as proof your god exists.

Fact is, you believe despite the evidence. You believe because you want to believe.

And so really the only thing for us to say to each other is every once in awhile I like to point out what a dope you are for having an imaginary friend.

What pisses me off about you is you cling to that idea that god must exist because human's have always believed. Even though I explain to you how/when/why humans came up with god. A healthy fear of the unknown, wild imaginations and a fear of what happens when someone dies.

You don't realize that when the wooly mammoth killed father mother told the kids not to worry because he's in a better place now. This doesn't prove a god exists. It proves humans made up god to answer things they didn't know. And they weren't very intelligent back then. Today we are smarter than that and most scientists/atheists agree there is little if any evidence god exists. Sorry, but you are 99.999% probably wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

Well she probably doesn't know because if you expressed your fantasy to her she'd have you arrested or her husband would come whip your ass. But the other day, we were discussing how laws may be changed to allow people the freedom of sexual expression, in which case, you might feel more inclined to put the moves on mom, or maybe even whip it out and start jerking it while she sits there waiting. Hey... that's not harming anyone, is it? Why should we be confined to these antiquated laws based on religious beliefs? What's wrong with a man just being able to whip his dick out and masturbate when he sees a foxy babe like that? Right?


There are sooo many beautiful MILF's at my work. The one I was talking about the other day came in with such short shorts and she was showing me her freckly legs and then her tan lines on her bikini top and I don't think she knew how much she was driving me crazy.

I also have a foot fetish and these women come in with their toes done perfectly and I would love to put their feet in my mouth so bad.

And by the way, for those of you who hate feet, I do too if they are bad feet, but pretty feet are the biggest turn on.

 

[Boss]

What we've come to realize is there are going to be a few dopes like you who despite all the facts, evidence & reasoned logic, you are still going to believe no matter how little proof you have. In fact, you'll use bad evidence as proof your god exists.

Fact is, you believe despite the evidence. You believe because you want to believe.

And so really the only thing for us to say to each other is every once in awhile I like to point out what a dope you are for having an imaginary friend.

What pisses me off about you is you cling to that idea that god must exist because human's have always believed. Even though I explain to you how/when/why humans came up with god. A healthy fear of the unknown, wild imaginations and a fear of what happens when someone dies.

You don't realize that when the wooly mammoth killed father mother told the kids not to worry because he's in a better place now. This doesn't prove a god exists. It proves humans made up god to answer things they didn't know. And they weren't very intelligent back then. Today we are smarter than that and most scientists/atheists agree there is little if any evidence god exists. Sorry, but you are 99.999% probably wrong.

I've not seen all this "evidence and facts" you claim exists. When are you planning on releasing that? Your OPINION on things are not facts or evidence of anything other than your utter stupidity. I've already debunked every claim you've presented with factual scientific data that you've not refuted. You have proven that you are going to continue ignoring that and reposting the same argument over and over again, like some kind of autobot.

The fact remains, about 90% of the human race believes in something spiritual, and about 10% don't. The majority includes scientists, doctors, geniuses, and people from every walk of life. You've not proven anything wrong, in fact, you've not even offered any valid evidence that anything is wrong. We've been waiting for that for weeks, over 5,000 posts now, still... *crickets*

 

[sealybobo]

What we've come to realize is there are going to be a few dopes like you who despite all the facts, evidence & reasoned logic, you are still going to believe no matter how little proof you have. In fact, you'll use bad evidence as proof your god exists.

Fact is, you believe despite the evidence. You believe because you want to believe.

And so really the only thing for us to say to each other is every once in awhile I like to point out what a dope you are for having an imaginary friend.

What pisses me off about you is you cling to that idea that god must exist because human's have always believed. Even though I explain to you how/when/why humans came up with god. A healthy fear of the unknown, wild imaginations and a fear of what happens when someone dies.

You don't realize that when the wooly mammoth killed father mother told the kids not to worry because he's in a better place now. This doesn't prove a god exists. It proves humans made up god to answer things they didn't know. And they weren't very intelligent back then. Today we are smarter than that and most scientists/atheists agree there is little if any evidence god exists. Sorry, but you are 99.999% probably wrong.

I've not seen all this "evidence and facts" you claim exists. When are you planning on releasing that? Your OPINION on things are not facts or evidence of anything other than your utter stupidity. I've already debunked every claim you've presented with factual scientific data that you've not refuted. You have proven that you are going to continue ignoring that and reposting the same argument over and over again, like some kind of autobot.

The fact remains, about 90% of the human race believes in something spiritual, and about 10% don't. The majority includes scientists, doctors, geniuses, and people from every walk of life. You've not proven anything wrong, in fact, you've not even offered any valid evidence that anything is wrong. We've been waiting for that for weeks, over 5,000 posts now, still... *crickets*

You've shown me nothing nada zero zilch. You believe because man has always believed and you have this silly notions about spirituality.

The evidence I've shown you is like in a court trial. Lets say the OJ case where he killed those two people. The likelyhood OJ didn't do it is about the same chances I give there being a god.

And when I say god I mean the something that you think created everything.

Anyways, we know OJ drove over, killed Ron and Nicole then ran back and had Cato hide the knife and burn the gloves and he flew off to Chicago.

Anyways, more people than not decided he wasn't guilty. So I don't care that 90% believe in SOMETHING. The fact they all believe different should tell you something but that FACT doesn't even phase you. So I have shown you all the evidence I have. If you are one of those OJ jurors who found him not guilty, then I guess that means the majority agree with you and you must be right. OJ must be innocent.

And you haven't shot anything I've said down other than in your own head. I've given you pretty much the standard atheist come backs to all the things that theists usually say but I have to say you have a very wild imagination and are able to pick and choose the parts of religion you like and throw away the parts you don't like. How lovely you can do that and in your head you are right. It must be nice. I hear ignorance is bliss so you must be really happy.


Lots of people believe in a god.

Argumentum ad populum. The popularity of an idea says nothing of its veracity.

Geocentrism, a flat earth, creationism, astrology, alchemy and the occult were all once pervasive beliefs.

Furthermore, religions are culturally relative and, for the most part, are inconsistent and mutually exclusive.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen F Roberts

“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.” – David Stevens


The fact that lots of people hold an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalize world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[sealybobo]

What we've come to realize is there are going to be a few dopes like you who despite all the facts, evidence & reasoned logic, you are still going to believe no matter how little proof you have. In fact, you'll use bad evidence as proof your god exists.

Fact is, you believe despite the evidence. You believe because you want to believe.

And so really the only thing for us to say to each other is every once in awhile I like to point out what a dope you are for having an imaginary friend.

What pisses me off about you is you cling to that idea that god must exist because human's have always believed. Even though I explain to you how/when/why humans came up with god. A healthy fear of the unknown, wild imaginations and a fear of what happens when someone dies.

You don't realize that when the wooly mammoth killed father mother told the kids not to worry because he's in a better place now. This doesn't prove a god exists. It proves humans made up god to answer things they didn't know. And they weren't very intelligent back then. Today we are smarter than that and most scientists/atheists agree there is little if any evidence god exists. Sorry, but you are 99.999% probably wrong.

I've not seen all this "evidence and facts" you claim exists. When are you planning on releasing that? Your OPINION on things are not facts or evidence of anything other than your utter stupidity. I've already debunked every claim you've presented with factual scientific data that you've not refuted. You have proven that you are going to continue ignoring that and reposting the same argument over and over again, like some kind of autobot.

The fact remains, about 90% of the human race believes in something spiritual, and about 10% don't. The majority includes scientists, doctors, geniuses, and people from every walk of life. You've not proven anything wrong, in fact, you've not even offered any valid evidence that anything is wrong. We've been waiting for that for weeks, over 5,000 posts now, still... *crickets*

Atheists should prove god doesn’t exist.

The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

A common attempt to shift the burden of proof or ‘make room’ for a god. Represents a type of false dichotomy that excludes the fact that there is insufficient investigation and the proposition has not yet been proven either true or false.

The failure to disprove the existence of something does not constitute proof of its existence.

Belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims because all such claims would need to be believed implicitly. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

I have shown you tons of facts and evidence and you are slimy/slick enough to be able to argue anything. For example, you take a bite of shit and say it tastes good. Not only do you say it taste good you can actually make a pretty good argument that it tastes good. You are so full of shit that you can actually believe your own bullshit too. I truly believe you believe in this god and that your arguments are sound. But you have poo pooed so much that I have shown you I guess you just believe because you want to believe. You can't even imagine there is no god. I don't believe that. You have spent enough time on this site and read enough you have to wonder sometimes if the invisible guy is real or not. NOT!

Morality is a cultural concept with a basis in evolutionary psychology and game theory. Species whose members were predisposed to cooperate were more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Reciprocacy, altruism and other so-called ‘moral’ characteristics are evident in many species. The neurochemical thought to regulate morality and empathy is oxytocin.

Religious texts are simply part of many early attempts to codify moral precepts. Secular law, flexible with the shifting moral zeitgeist, has long since superseded religion as a source of moral directives for the majority of developed societies.