Why do some people say "God Fearing"?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I never said that we shouldn't call religions a false religion.

And you never admitted it, either. It would have been a very easy thing to do. You think all religions besides your favorite one are false. There is no getting around this, given the other things you believe. But for some reason, you are too squeamish to admit this. And now you don't want to talk about it. Okay, I can't make you talk about it.

Personally, I think you see how this puts you and your religion on the exact same shelf as anyone and any religion, to anyone willing to step back to gain some perspective. And suddenly your favorite religion seems a little less special. It becomes a little bit harder to convince yourself or anyone else that it is special, in light of this. And this relatively minor 'slight', as you see it, is enough to keep you from speaking honestly. I think that makes you intellectually brow -beaten by iron aged myths and mentally handicapped by your faith.

 

[Colin norris]

JGalt
Is he really?
I'll bet you never hear of that idiot again.
Judgement day my foot. What a load of rubbish.

 

[Likkmee]

I see this said or written many many times and I don't understand why anyone would fear God. He loves us. My dad loved me. I didn't fear him at all. What I DID fear was disappointing him, or making him sad or angry. I loved him...so making him feel negatively for an action I did, or a word I said, or how I conducted myself in certain situations..yes...I feared the hurt look he would get. Same with God. But what I gather from the phrase : "I am a God Fearing woman/man", I take it as fearing He Who Loves Us. How can one fear Him knowing that?

The "fear" of God is the beginning of wisdom. (Prov. 9:10) Wisdom not as measured by man......but God. The wise pays no attention to what man says (as man has been known to lie on occasion)......the wise follow the advise of God who cannot lie.

The wisest man in scripture tells us, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man's ALL. (or very purpose for being). -- Eccl 12:13

Why fear God? Fear not man who can kill your physical body, but fear Him who can put your very soul asunder for eternity.

Of course god can lie. He did it a lot.
“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14: 11 – 14)

I asked for a pony. ----- No pony yet.

You can't always get whatcha want but if ya try sometime..ya just might find.....ya get whatcha neeeed

 

[Cecilie1200]

I see this said or written many many times and I don't understand why anyone would fear God. He loves us. My dad loved me. I didn't fear him at all. What I DID fear was disappointing him, or making him sad or angry. I loved him...so making him feel negatively for an action I did, or a word I said, or how I conducted myself in certain situations..yes...I feared the hurt look he would get. Same with God. But what I gather from the phrase : "I am a God Fearing woman/man", I take it as fearing He Who Loves Us. How can one fear Him knowing that?

What makes you think that fear toward God is any different basically than the fear you described in relation to your dad? I'd say it would be far greater in scope, since your father is just another human being, and God is . . . well, God, but in essence, you actually defined "God-fearing" quite well without realizing it. The fear of God is a recognition of who He is and how much we owe Him (everything), and the desire not to disappoint Him and separate ourselves from Him through our sin.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The fear of God is a recognition of who He is and how much we owe Him (everything), and the desire not to disappoint Him and separate ourselves from Him through our sin.

Because you want your personal reward. A regime of fear, dangling a magical fantasy carrot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The fear of God is a recognition of who He is and how much we owe Him (everything), and the desire not to disappoint Him and separate ourselves from Him through our sin.

Because you want your personal reward. A regime of fear, dangling a magical fantasy carrot.

If I ever require "The arrogant fool's guide to what people who aren't him are 'really' thinking", I'll let you know. Hold your breath waiting.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

God is Awesome, beyond all that can be imagined, without limit, greater than all the universe, which is created by God, with all power over us, and our lives. We can trust God's love for us, which God does not limit, but that does not take away the awe that we would rightly have of God, with all God's power and authority with our lives. This is proper fear of God, that cannot be for anyone else.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

God is Awesome, beyond all that can be imagined, without limit, greater than all the universe, which is created by God, with all power over us, and our lives. We can trust God's love for us, which God does not limit, but that does not take away the awe that we would rightly have of God, with all God's power and authority with our lives. This is proper fear of God, that cannot be for anyone else.

And none of that would matter to you or to anyone else, if the carrot of eternal life was not being dangled. So you can gussy it up all you like, but the fear of god is simply a selfish fetish and desire being applied to a transactional relationship.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

And none of that would matter to you or to anyone else, if the carrot of eternal life was not being dangled. So you can gussy it up all you like, but the fear of god is simply a selfish fetish and desire being applied to a transactional relationship.

No matter how you define it, with fearing God we, who do, see God does love us, and knowing that, we love God, with the provision for that. And we know God's love as we know Jesus Christ, and about his coming. It is our sensible response to what God initiates among us, even if it is a transactional relationship as you see it with our selfish motivation. We could not initiate it. We only can respond.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No matter how you define it, with fearing God we, who do, see God does love us, and knowing that, we love God, with the provision for that.

Well that's part an parcel of your faith. Your faith came first. To maintain it, you must believe god loves you. Else you would lose it.

And that's fine. If it makes you happy, i am happy for you. I still believe you are simply ginning up the basic transactional relationship you have with your god, with an expected personal reward for your faith. Without the expected reward, i think your faith would quickly vanish.

 

[emilynghiem]

How can one respect a God that is more concerned with who you sleep with than genocide?

Moonglow
Genocide is the collective result on a mass scale of dehumanizing people and devaluing individuals and relations.

It isn't God obsessing over who has sex with whom. But people are projecting their personal issues onto other people, in the process of resolving conflicts "one on one" in our relationships directly. Clearly we have to make peace with each other on this level, BEFORE we can address and prevent turf wars between groups of people, BEFORE we can prevent mass genocide which is the collective effect.

We start locally, and resolve conflicts between each other personally in relationships, in order to influence change on greater and greater social levels, which includes preventing war and genocide as a result.

 

[emilynghiem]

So introspection is only possible for a Bible thumper, right?

No, that is not the universal meaning of fearing God to gain wisdom.

Buddha also had to overcome fear of suffering and strife before receiving wisdom.

So the meaning of God and the Kingdom of God is not dependent on just the Christian ways of teaching by the Bible.

The Gentiles under Natural Laws also seek the Wisdom of God and Universal Justice and Peace, even if using different terms for these principles.

 

[emilynghiem]

Oh, I think I get it now. God promises countless miracles, and the only reason he doesn't deliver on them is because the people he promised all that to just aren't good enough. Seems odd that the percentage of those that do receive those miracles is exactly the same as random chance provides.

No, it isn't that people aren't good enough.
It is that we do not unite and focus on agreed goals but we let division conquer us and waste our time resources efforts and attention on conflict.

Even good parents suffer great waste of resources and energy fighting in court over divorce or custody battles instead of investing that into helping their kids.

It isn't that they are bad people or not deserving. It is being distracted by fear of not being able to resolve conflicts.

Same with politics and good people with good intentions caught up in battles to divide and conquer to control the situation, out of fear of competing interests. This is more of a distraction or obstruction, while good people on both sides of conflicts complain the other is forcing them to have to fight back.

 

[emilynghiem]

I've read the Bible. The god described there is petty and cruel.

Dear BULLDOG (CC: Penelope Luddly Neddite )
By the time I studied the Bible, I already had visions we as collective humanity or society were already going through the end stages of the spiritual process of achieving "Justice and Peace" as represented in the NT and in Revelations.

Thus I saw and read the OT in THAT context of Restorative Justice replacing the older ways of Retributive Justice.

The OT records human history where Retributive Justice DOES NOT WORK.

The whole point of humanity experiencing war and genocide is to learn and teach from history why we need to liberate ourselves and BREAK these patterns from the past. Which otherwise lead to endless death and destruction.

The message of cruelty and injustice you get from the Bible is based on Antichrist, and abuse of law and authority to rule by fear of judgment and punishment.

So you are right, in the sense we are supposed to realize why this is so self defeating and destructive and fails to bring law, order, peace and justice.

This realization leads to understanding why Restorative Justice is the way to sustainable living and peace.

The NT is about renewing the true Spirit of the Laws, to end the old ways that brought death and destruction by greed for control by the letter of the law.

The transition from letting go of the oppression caused by attachment to the old ways, and opening up avenues to living by the sustainable ways of love of truth justice and peace, occurs by agreeing to receive forgiveness and correction into our relations. THIS transition from the Retributive Justice of the past to the Restorative Justice of the future is the meaning I got from Jesus bringing Salvation and Peace to Humanity.

If we do not forgive the past transgressions, we risk staying anchored emotionally to the past.

By forgiving the past, we can move forward to a better position of resolving and correcting the causes so we prevent injustice, abuse and oppression in the future. This vision of sustainable justice and peace is the Kingdom of God established by agreeing on universal truth, that sets humanity free from suffering and strife.

I pray you will join the side of forgiveness in order to more effectively correct the problems causing abuses of either religious or political power. Since you have taken a different path, that doesn't require adherence or dependence on Christianity for answers, I believe it is even more important to have your help in resolving these same conflicts many others experience between nontheists and Christians.

I believe the more we can forgive what has gone wrong with religion or politics in the past, the better we can communicate and collaborate to solve these problems in the present and prevent recurrence in the future.

Your contributions and insights into this process are appreciated and will prove vital. I encourage you to keep working toward resolving all conflicts to reach a fuller resolution and understanding that will help many others facing the same!

 

[BULLDOG]

No, it isn't that people aren't good enough.
It is that we do not unite and focus on agreed goals but we let division conquer us and waste our time resources efforts and attention on conflict.

Even good parents suffer great waste of resources and energy fighting in court over divorce or custody battles instead of investing that into helping their kids.

It isn't that they are bad people or not deserving. It is being distracted by fear of not being able to resolve conflicts.

Same with politics and good people with good intentions caught up in battles to divide and conquer to control the situation, out of fear of competing interests. This is more of a distraction or obstruction, while good people on both sides of conflicts complain the other is forcing them to have to fight back.

Bottom line is those people just don't measure up to god's requirements. Whether that is because they are bad people, or because they didn't "unite and focus" the result is the same. NO MIRACLES FOR YOU!!! That still doesn't account for the fact that the percentage of miraculous healings is exactly the same percentage as random unexplained recoveries.

 

[BULLDOG]

Dear BULLDOG (CC: Penelope Luddly Neddite )
By the time I studied the Bible, I already had visions we as collective humanity or society were already going through the end stages of the spiritual process of achieving "Justice and Peace" as represented in the NT and in Revelations.

Thus I saw and read the OT in THAT context of Restorative Justice replacing the older ways of Retributive Justice.

The OT records human history where Retributive Justice DOES NOT WORK.

The whole point of humanity experiencing war and genocide is to learn and teach from history why we need to liberate ourselves and BREAK these patterns from the past. Which otherwise lead to endless death and destruction.

The message of cruelty and injustice you get from the Bible is based on Antichrist, and abuse of law and authority to rule by fear of judgment and punishment.

So you are right, in the sense we are supposed to realize why this is so self defeating and destructive and fails to bring law, order, peace and justice.

This realization leads to understanding why Restorative Justice is the way to sustainable living and peace.

The NT is about renewing the true Spirit of the Laws, to end the old ways that brought death and destruction by greed for control by the letter of the law.

The transition from letting go of the oppression caused by attachment to the old ways, and opening up avenues to living by the sustainable ways of love of truth justice and peace, occurs by agreeing to receive forgiveness and correction into our relations. THIS transition from the Retributive Justice of the past to the Restorative Justice of the future is the meaning I got from Jesus bringing Salvation and Peace to Humanity.

If we do not forgive the past transgressions, we risk staying anchored emotionally to the past.

By forgiving the past, we can move forward to a better position of resolving and correcting the causes so we prevent injustice, abuse and oppression in the future. This vision of sustainable justice and peace is the Kingdom of God established by agreeing on universal truth, that sets humanity free from suffering and strife.

I pray you will join the side of forgiveness in order to more effectively correct the problems causing abuses of either religious or political power. Since you have taken a different path, that doesn't require adherence or dependence on Christianity for answers, I believe it is even more important to have your help in resolving these same conflicts many others experience between nontheists and Christians.

I believe the more we can forgive what has gone wrong with religion or politics in the past, the better we can communicate and collaborate to solve these problems in the present and prevent recurrence in the future.

Your contributions and insights into this process are appreciated and will prove vital. I encourage you to keep working toward resolving all conflicts to reach a fuller resolution and understanding that will help many others facing the same!

I understand. You studied with a predetermined context, and found that it supported exactly what you had believed all along. I hope you aren't surprised to find that your method is quite common.

 

[emilynghiem]

Bottom line is those people just don't measure up to god's requirements. Whether that is because they are bad people, or because they didn't "unite and focus" the result is the same. NO MIRACLES FOR YOU!!! That still doesn't account for the fact that the percentage of miraculous healings is exactly the same percentage as random unexplained recoveries.

No, the rate of recovery and healing correlates with forgiveness which facilitates the natural process of self healing between the mind and body.

BULLDOG I'm not sure what studies you are citing. I agree that it does not matter the AFFILIATION of the person receiving the spiritual healing; but the factor of Forgiveness has been studied in many different ways as making a measurable difference.

You keep insisting this is some kind of judgment on people -- no.

In fact, the most effective reputable practictioners in Spiritual Healing make it very clear in their team methods and teaching NOT to judge people. Again, because these effective natural methods are based on Forgiveness. So this means NOT judging people.

Your added condition or interpretation that it means judgment on others already indicates some factor of Unforgiveness in order to judge people unequally by conditions.

This factor already will hinder the healing, regardless of the affiliation of the people in cases studied.

In order to study the difference that Forgiveness makes, in healing and recovery rates, you would need to cite studies that capture and compare this factor.

 

[emilynghiem]

I understand. You studied with a predetermined context, and found that it supported exactly what you had believed all along. I hope you aren't surprised to find that your method is quite common.

Dear BULLDOG
No again.
The study on Rheumatoid Arthritis was conducted and published under regular medical and scientific standards.
This would not have been funded by Templeton Foundation if it had been set up in a biased way that would waste the time and resources and discredit the medical professionals conducting the study.

If you want to compare the difference with that study and another study on intercessory prayer that FAILED: look up the study on heart patients by either Harvard or Princeton. That study did NOT use the deliverance methods of praying for forgiveness including generational factors, as the team prayer methods focus on which proved effective.

BULLDOG I am completely supportive of replicating more such studies to show a consistent pattern of correlation:

Forgiveness correlates with higher success rates in healing and recovery
Unforgiveness correlates with greater stress and failure to heal and recover as quickly

The studies on forgiveness and health are already numerous, but I support more specific examples in order to compare and teach from.

All should be conducted as regular scientific and medical studies, as was done with the study on RA.

 

[BULLDOG]

Dear BULLDOG (CC: Penelope Luddly Neddite )
By the time I studied the Bible, I already had visions we as collective humanity or society were already going through the end stages of the spiritual process of achieving "Justice and Peace" as represented in the NT and in Revelations.

Thus I saw and read the OT in THAT context of Restorative Justice replacing the older ways of Retributive Justice.

The OT records human history where Retributive Justice DOES NOT WORK.

The whole point of humanity experiencing war and genocide is to learn and teach from history why we need to liberate ourselves and BREAK these patterns from the past. Which otherwise lead to endless death and destruction.

The message of cruelty and injustice you get from the Bible is based on Antichrist, and abuse of law and authority to rule by fear of judgment and punishment.

So you are right, in the sense we are supposed to realize why this is so self defeating and destructive and fails to bring law, order, peace and justice.

This realization leads to understanding why Restorative Justice is the way to sustainable living and peace.

The NT is about renewing the true Spirit of the Laws, to end the old ways that brought death and destruction by greed for control by the letter of the law.

The transition from letting go of the oppression caused by attachment to the old ways, and opening up avenues to living by the sustainable ways of love of truth justice and peace, occurs by agreeing to receive forgiveness and correction into our relations. THIS transition from the Retributive Justice of the past to the Restorative Justice of the future is the meaning I got from Jesus bringing Salvation and Peace to Humanity.

If we do not forgive the past transgressions, we risk staying anchored emotionally to the past.

By forgiving the past, we can move forward to a better position of resolving and correcting the causes so we prevent injustice, abuse and oppression in the future. This vision of sustainable justice and peace is the Kingdom of God established by agreeing on universal truth, that sets humanity free from suffering and strife.

I pray you will join the side of forgiveness in order to more effectively correct the problems causing abuses of either religious or political power. Since you have taken a different path, that doesn't require adherence or dependence on Christianity for answers, I believe it is even more important to have your help in resolving these same conflicts many others experience between nontheists and Christians.

I believe the more we can forgive what has gone wrong with religion or politics in the past, the better we can communicate and collaborate to solve these problems in the present and prevent recurrence in the future.

Your contributions and insights into this process are appreciated and will prove vital. I encourage you to keep working toward resolving all conflicts to reach a fuller resolution and understanding that will help many others facing the same!

Yes, I am aware of studies that showed attitude can have a profound effect on healing, but that doesn't have much to do with fear of god.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, I am aware of studies that showed attitude can have a profound effect on healing, but that doesn't have much to do with fear of god.

Dear BULLDOG
From the different interpretations of how people see God and "fear of God"
apparently the meaning differs according to what makes sense and works for people.

I know some who respond to "fear of God" as meaning fear that God could take
or do anything, so living in constant humility and respect for God's laws and obedience.
I don't respond as well to that, but some people do.

The terror suspect under interrogation who wouldn't reveal information to stop a planned attack
required getting the "fear of God" (by Lt Col Allen West shooting a firearm past his head)
before finally talking so those lives could be saved.
This was totally breaking the rules, but if that's what it took, literal FEAR, that's is God's way, that is what happens.
It cost West his military career, but he did his duty to protect lives.

You and I do not need that level of fear or force.
So to people like us, just respect for truth is enough to motivate us
to seek corrections, change or reform.

As for healing, if people do not have enough motivation to forgive in order to heal,
then it can take a huge problem in their personal life, which cannot be resolved
unless the people agree to forgive first in order to resolve it rationally,
before they agree to go through the trouble.

In Houston, there is such an outrage over releasing repeat offenders by abusing PR bonds (which are
only supposed to be for nonviolent misdemeanors, not felonies or dangerous cases) to go kill more people,
the reports and complaints finally got on the news and into the mainstream media.

If people have to FEAR for safety before they look into Christian nonprofits
that have effectively counseling and therapy for criminal offenders to become
COMPLIANT and COOPERATIVE with authorities instead of threatening others,
then this FEAR may finally be the motivation to take Christian therapy seriously,
as a way to get such people help with their behavioral disorders
BEFORE they ever start committing physical abuses or crimes against people.

Again, I prefer that "fear" not be relied on to motivate people.
I wish more people could see and study the difference it makes
to heal people of addictive or abusive disorders (BEFORE it becomes
a threat to cause "fear") and just the positive healing was ENOUGH
to motivate more people to promote better health and prevent worse problems.

But if people keep rejecting this as unnecessary, and let other people
keep their drug or alcohol addictions as "their choice" or "their problem"
(instead of seeking Spiritual Counseling and therapy to address the internal addiction)
then not until someone gets out of control, drives drunk or under the influence
of other drugs, and harms or kills other people, does the public demand consequences.

Why wait until there is FEAR of danger or death to address the problem?
But if people have other priorities that worry them more,
they will focus there instead.

So this is why it sometimes takes FEAR before people agree to seek change or correction.