Why do so many atheist scientists believe in aliens when there's no proof for them either?

[james bond]

There is no need for the anthropic principle is we know God is the creator. It's for discussion scientific philosophy with atheists. They can agree to an intelligent designer who populated Earth such as panspermia. Why do you laugh? It's not only advocated by IDers, but atheists. Other atheist scientists try to get around it by citing multiverses.

very confusing post ...

But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind - That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge ...

would that include reliance for their worldview on a single 4th century nonverified document -


Why do you laugh?

. christianity ... sadly is not a laughing matter.

Heh. What do you know about the anthropic principle?

 

[james bond]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hollie]

Here are some quotes that I said I would post, by well known UFO researchers who, based on years of research, came to the conclusion that 'aliens' are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial. Keep in mind that these are secular researchers, who arrived at these conclusions because of the evidence, not religious beliefs.

“It’s both literally, physically happening to a degree; and it’s also some kind of psychological, spiritual experience occurring and originating perhaps in another dimension.”

— Dr. John E. Mack (psychiatrist, professor at Harvard Medical School, Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer)


"UFOs, although they may have no physical reality, can and do affect matter....the universe is not all that simple. Mystics, for example, have always talked about how matter vibrates at different rates of speed, but the scientist doesn't know what the mystic is talking about....there is a lot that the spaceship concept doesn't explain about UFO phenomena. You have to disallow or neglect and overlook all sorts of things if you accept the idea that nuts-and-bolts craft are coming here from outer space....the so-called extraterrestrial hypothesis....We're going to have to broaden our scope and admit other things into our playing field of science....But it would be wrong if we pursued that path to the exclusion of everything else. If the evidence suggests that there is a paranormal dimension to the phenomenon, we're going to have to pursue that.”

— Dr. J. Allen Hynek (American astronomer, professor, and ufologist)


"The 'medical examination' to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscient of the medieval tales of encounters with demons. It makes no sense in a sophisticated or technical framework: any intelligent being equipped with the scientific marvels that UFOs possess would be in a position to achieve any of these alleged scientific objectives in a shorter time and with fewer risks."

"We are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness, independent of man but closely linked to the earth.... I do not believe anymore that UFOs are simply the spacecraft of some race of extraterrestrial visitors. This notion is too simplistic to explain their appearance, the frequency of their manifestations through recorded history, and the structure of the information exchanged with them during contact."

"The symbolic display seen by the abductees is identical to the type of initiation ritual or astral voyage that is imbedded in the [occult] traditions of every culture...the structure of abduction stories is identical to that of occult initiation rituals...the UFO beings of today belong to the same class of manifestation as the [occult] entities that were described in centuries past."

"An impressive parallel can be made between UFO occupants and the popular conceptions of demons.” "UFOs can project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems."

—Dr. Jacques Vallée (computer scientist, former astronomer, ufologist)


“The UFOs do not seem to exist as tangible, manufactured objects. They do not conform to the natural laws of our environment. They seem to be nothing more than transmogrifications tailoring themselves to our abilities to understand. The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon.”

— John Keel


"One theory which can no longer be taken very seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships.”

— Arthur C. Clarke


"Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena...."

— Lynn E. Catoe


"...if one sets the three occult groups against the three classifications of UFO entities and their characteristics, it is rather surprising how complementary to each other they appear to be, not only through their appearance, activities, and level of behavior, but also in the quality of mental and, especially, emotional reaction and response that has been noted to have occurred on contact.”

— Ivar Mackay (former chairman of the respected British UFO Research Association)


“We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth.”

— Brad Steiger

"Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might even be more than life and death. It might be a struggle for my soul, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal. There are worse things than death, I suspected... so far the word demon had never been spoken among the scientists and doctors who were working with me...Alone at night I worried about the legendary cunning of demons ...At the very least I was going stark, raving mad."

"I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there [in the presence of the entities], and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, couldn't get away. I'd lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister. Of course they were demons. They had to be. And they were here and I couldn't get away."

— Whitley Strieber, Transformation, p. 44-45, p. 181
​

What are the qualifications needed to be a certified “ufologist”?

What you personally think about this topic is irrelevant. The topic has to do with aliens, so it is perfectly relevant to bring up people who have spent decades researching the topic. Another thing I find funny is that in one breath you guys say 'I don't care about credentials' but in the next breath you imply that credentials do matter. I'm actually laughing at you and the other atheist, your posts speak volumes about you, not anyone else.

No one is saying you can’t believe that aliens are among us or aliens exist. Honestly, that’s no more outrageous than people believing in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or other tales of monsters and demons. It's not for me personally, and I argue that such things had their place and there are better and more realistic models that show factual evidence. Those will eventually replace beliefs in monsters and demons (like these days you don't hear about monsters and demons, but instead the more science-oriented UFOs and aliens -- both are mythic belief systems with no evidence in support of the claims).

I never said that I believe in "aliens." In fact, I stated earlier that I believe it's a deception. But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

One thing I have learned is that truth is often stranger than fiction. The reason I posted those quotes on the previous page is because many of the researchers who spent decades studying this topic changed their view from the standard idea that life may exist on other planets, to the idea that those entities are interdimensional. Secular researchers coming to that conclusion is interesting, and you can dismiss the whole thing if you want, but since you're not the one who did the research and interviewed hundreds of people, your opinion is based on what you already believe… not on years of research and a genuine search for truth.

Suppose life exists elsewhere? That would be utterly devastating to the religious articles as "creation" is uniquely an earthly event. Although, you and I both know that some obscure Bible verse would eventually be discovered as describing the event. "Ah, see, science "proving" the religious texts".

Send a probe to Mars, and prove life developed off the planet Earth. This we are doing. What theists are doing to establish their suppositions... well, forgive the irony, but, gawd only knows.

 

[Hollie]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

Wrong about what?

While great Hindu philosophers have done even more with mathematics, great Greek pantheistic philosophers more with medicine, great Buddhist (and Taoist!) philosophers more with chemistry ... and every last one of them has been superseded by entirely secular scholars as the boundaries of knowledge have been pushed back by specialized researchers.

The day of the pre-eminent religious/philosophical/scientific polymath has come and gone. I don't call it good or bad. I call it truth.

 

[Montrovant]

You're ge


1. You did not actually answer my question. There are multiple versions of the antrhopic principle, which do you think says that humanity should have discovered alien life it exists, and why?

2. You assume I am an atheist

3. You assume I have claimed there is life elsewhere

Basically, you seem to enjoy creating an argument based on your own often false assumptions as though they are factual.

Agnostic is the same as atheist in the Bible. To me, an agnostic is someone who isn't smart enough to figure things out for themselves.

If one believes in God and Genesis, then you would see there is no need for the anthropic principle. Were you not able to figure this out for yourself?

What do you mean "agnostic is the same as atheist in the Bible"? Neither word existed at the time, so I can only assume you mean the concepts.

If there is no need for the anthropic principle, why do you keep citing it? If you just don't want to answer the question, say so.

smh. You are wrong again. Atheism existed in ancient times, too. In Jesus' time, we have the Epicureans and Stoics. It's mentioned in the Bible and atheist history.

What I meant was God treats atheists and agnostics alike in the afterlife.

There is no need for the anthropic principle is we know God is the creator. It's for discussion scientific philosophy with atheists. They can agree to an intelligent designer who populated Earth such as panspermia. Why do you laugh? It's not only advocated by IDers, but atheists. Other atheist scientists try to get around it by citing multiverses.

Do you have reading comprehension problems? I stated clearly that the words 'atheist' and 'agnostic' did not exist at the time of the Bible, and continued to state that you were likely talking about the concepts of atheism and agnosticism. I didn't say that atheism did not exist, but that the word atheist did not exist.

You still have yet to clarify which version of the anthropic principle you believe indicates humanity should have discovered alien life and why. You provided a link to a book review, but did not explain how the anthropic principle leads to the idea that humanity should have discovered alien life. You have ignored that there are different versions of the anthropic principle. I have provided links to a couple of sites on the topic which include the various definitions, and I've read a little bit about them, and have yet to come upon anything which leads me to believe the anthropic principle would indicate humanity should have discovered alien life.

In its most basic form, the anthropic principle simply states the obvious fact that carbon-based life exists, therefore the conditions necessary for carbon-based life to exist must obtain in at least some of the universe. That is the weak anthropic principle. The strong anthropic principle says that the conditions for life must exist in the universe at some point. The participatory anthropic principle says that some form of intelligent life is a requirement for the universe to exist. The final anthropic principle says that once intelligence rises in the universe, it will never completely die out.

None of that indicates that humanity should have discovered the presence of alien life if it exists.

The Anthropic Principle

Since I beat you up on the anthropic principle, you lead off with the lesser and insignificant 'atheist' and 'agnostic' complaint. What a sniveling little beotch you are.

I am frustrated. I have patiently explained the evidence of no aliens and yet you do not acknowledge any of it. ARE YOU SO DENSE THAT YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND WHAT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES NOW???!!!???!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!

Why don't you read the book I recommended and then come back after getting a firm foundation? Then you will know what the AP choice is! Or may pick a different one for yourself and be able to formulate a decent argument. Or you may be able to satisfy yourself that there are no aliens. Barrow and Tipler's work has been hailed as "the most comprehensive analysis to date of the so-called Anthropic Principle and its relation to the classic teleological argument for a Divine Designer of the cosmos." I am intelligent enough to present both sides, which I did, since you can't formulate a decent counter argument. If you can't educate yourself or are too lazy to, then just admit you are ignorant and I will present the philosophical lowdown against Barrow and Tipler's choice.

I already told you mine, God the Creator, and I am the one who is correct in that there are no aliens because God didn't create any aliens. Science backs up the Bible again. All the evidence points to no aliens while there is no credible scientific evidence for aliens.

Furthermore, what you fail to understand is the Christian backers of the anthropic principle are theistic evolutionists like Hugh Ross and that I am not a theistic evolutionist.

One of the things that you should have gotten from this thread is that the argument for aliens due to billions and billions of stars, moons and planets has been debunked. I don't think you are smart enough to realize this, so am pointing it out again so you do not shat on yourself in future discussions.

You "beat me up," did you?

The only question you asked in your previous post was "Why do you laugh?" Are you that upset that I did not answer that question, or were you referring to something else?

I started with the atheist part of the conversation because that was the first thing in your post that I was replying to.

You have not actually explained how the anthropic principle is evidence there are no aliens. You've linked to a book, but I'm not going to go buy and read that book. I've already shown you a couple of websites where I've gone to look at information on the anthropic principle. I've also pointed out that there are at least 4 versions of it, and asked which version you think shows that humans should have discovered alien life if it exists, as well as how the anthropic principle brings you to that conclusion. You have failed to do that.

I'm not sure what the "both sides" are that you think you have presented.

You have debunked very little, if anything, in this thread. You've rambled, made declarations that you have failed to adequately explain or elucidate on, you've grouped scientists as being either atheists or Christian scientists, and you have seemingly tried to make theological arguments out to be scientific. Feel free to think that you have done a great job proving your point, though.

 

[sparky]

this just in>>>

 

[BreezeWood]

There is no need for the anthropic principle is we know God is the creator. It's for discussion scientific philosophy with atheists. They can agree to an intelligent designer who populated Earth such as panspermia. Why do you laugh? It's not only advocated by IDers, but atheists. Other atheist scientists try to get around it by citing multiverses.

very confusing post ...

But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind - That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge ...

would that include reliance for their worldview on a single 4th century nonverified document -


Why do you laugh?

. christianity ... sadly is not a laughing matter.

Heh. What do you know about the anthropic principle?

.

Heh. What do you know about the anthropic principle?

There is no need for the anthropic principle is we know God is the creator.

There is no need for the anthropic principle -

the more complex view of the water molecule clearly indicates a conscious presence for its state of being in accordance similarly with the process for life's creation and the initial physiological template that is used to sustain it.

as by the metaphysical forces not yet fully recognized or understood.

- there being a right and a wrong ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course you cannot prove anything you say

And all you have is the story as I said there is no scientific , empirical proof that a biblical god exists

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here are some quotes that I said I would post, by well known UFO researchers who, based on years of research, came to the conclusion that 'aliens' are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial. Keep in mind that these are secular researchers, who arrived at these conclusions because of the evidence, not religious beliefs.

“It’s both literally, physically happening to a degree; and it’s also some kind of psychological, spiritual experience occurring and originating perhaps in another dimension.”

— Dr. John E. Mack (psychiatrist, professor at Harvard Medical School, Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer)


"UFOs, although they may have no physical reality, can and do affect matter....the universe is not all that simple. Mystics, for example, have always talked about how matter vibrates at different rates of speed, but the scientist doesn't know what the mystic is talking about....there is a lot that the spaceship concept doesn't explain about UFO phenomena. You have to disallow or neglect and overlook all sorts of things if you accept the idea that nuts-and-bolts craft are coming here from outer space....the so-called extraterrestrial hypothesis....We're going to have to broaden our scope and admit other things into our playing field of science....But it would be wrong if we pursued that path to the exclusion of everything else. If the evidence suggests that there is a paranormal dimension to the phenomenon, we're going to have to pursue that.”

— Dr. J. Allen Hynek (American astronomer, professor, and ufologist)


"The 'medical examination' to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscient of the medieval tales of encounters with demons. It makes no sense in a sophisticated or technical framework: any intelligent being equipped with the scientific marvels that UFOs possess would be in a position to achieve any of these alleged scientific objectives in a shorter time and with fewer risks."

"We are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness, independent of man but closely linked to the earth.... I do not believe anymore that UFOs are simply the spacecraft of some race of extraterrestrial visitors. This notion is too simplistic to explain their appearance, the frequency of their manifestations through recorded history, and the structure of the information exchanged with them during contact."

"The symbolic display seen by the abductees is identical to the type of initiation ritual or astral voyage that is imbedded in the [occult] traditions of every culture...the structure of abduction stories is identical to that of occult initiation rituals...the UFO beings of today belong to the same class of manifestation as the [occult] entities that were described in centuries past."

"An impressive parallel can be made between UFO occupants and the popular conceptions of demons.” "UFOs can project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems."

—Dr. Jacques Vallée (computer scientist, former astronomer, ufologist)


“The UFOs do not seem to exist as tangible, manufactured objects. They do not conform to the natural laws of our environment. They seem to be nothing more than transmogrifications tailoring themselves to our abilities to understand. The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon.”

— John Keel


"One theory which can no longer be taken very seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships.”

— Arthur C. Clarke


"Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena...."

— Lynn E. Catoe


"...if one sets the three occult groups against the three classifications of UFO entities and their characteristics, it is rather surprising how complementary to each other they appear to be, not only through their appearance, activities, and level of behavior, but also in the quality of mental and, especially, emotional reaction and response that has been noted to have occurred on contact.”

— Ivar Mackay (former chairman of the respected British UFO Research Association)


“We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth.”

— Brad Steiger

"Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might even be more than life and death. It might be a struggle for my soul, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal. There are worse things than death, I suspected... so far the word demon had never been spoken among the scientists and doctors who were working with me...Alone at night I worried about the legendary cunning of demons ...At the very least I was going stark, raving mad."

"I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there [in the presence of the entities], and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, couldn't get away. I'd lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister. Of course they were demons. They had to be. And they were here and I couldn't get away."

— Whitley Strieber, Transformation, p. 44-45, p. 181
​

What are the qualifications needed to be a certified “ufologist”?

What you personally think about this topic is irrelevant. The topic has to do with aliens, so it is perfectly relevant to bring up people who have spent decades researching the topic. Another thing I find funny is that in one breath you guys say 'I don't care about credentials' but in the next breath you imply that credentials do matter. I'm actually laughing at you and the other atheist, your posts speak volumes about you, not anyone else.

No one is saying you can’t believe that aliens are among us or aliens exist. Honestly, that’s no more outrageous than people believing in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or other tales of monsters and demons. It's not for me personally, and I argue that such things had their place and there are better and more realistic models that show factual evidence. Those will eventually replace beliefs in monsters and demons (like these days you don't hear about monsters and demons, but instead the more science-oriented UFOs and aliens -- both are mythic belief systems with no evidence in support of the claims).

I never said that I believe in "aliens." In fact, I stated earlier that I believe it's a deception. But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

One thing I have learned is that truth is often stranger than fiction. The reason I posted those quotes on the previous page is because many of the researchers who spent decades studying this topic changed their view from the standard idea that life may exist on other planets, to the idea that those entities are interdimensional. Secular researchers coming to that conclusion is interesting, and you can dismiss the whole thing if you want, but since you're not the one who did the research and interviewed hundreds of people, your opinion is based on what you already believe… not on years of research and a genuine search for truth.

Suppose life exists elsewhere? That would be utterly devastating to the religious articles as "creation" is uniquely an earthly event. Although, you and I both know that some obscure Bible verse would eventually be discovered as describing the event. "Ah, see, science "proving" the religious texts".

Send a probe to Mars, and prove life developed off the planet Earth. This we are doing. What theists are doing to establish their suppositions... well, forgive the irony, but, gawd only knows.

Why limit yourself to Mars?

The universe is truly vast beyond the imagination of most people

 

[Hollie]

What are the qualifications needed to be a certified “ufologist”?

What you personally think about this topic is irrelevant. The topic has to do with aliens, so it is perfectly relevant to bring up people who have spent decades researching the topic. Another thing I find funny is that in one breath you guys say 'I don't care about credentials' but in the next breath you imply that credentials do matter. I'm actually laughing at you and the other atheist, your posts speak volumes about you, not anyone else.

No one is saying you can’t believe that aliens are among us or aliens exist. Honestly, that’s no more outrageous than people believing in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or other tales of monsters and demons. It's not for me personally, and I argue that such things had their place and there are better and more realistic models that show factual evidence. Those will eventually replace beliefs in monsters and demons (like these days you don't hear about monsters and demons, but instead the more science-oriented UFOs and aliens -- both are mythic belief systems with no evidence in support of the claims).

I never said that I believe in "aliens." In fact, I stated earlier that I believe it's a deception. But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

One thing I have learned is that truth is often stranger than fiction. The reason I posted those quotes on the previous page is because many of the researchers who spent decades studying this topic changed their view from the standard idea that life may exist on other planets, to the idea that those entities are interdimensional. Secular researchers coming to that conclusion is interesting, and you can dismiss the whole thing if you want, but since you're not the one who did the research and interviewed hundreds of people, your opinion is based on what you already believe… not on years of research and a genuine search for truth.

Suppose life exists elsewhere? That would be utterly devastating to the religious articles as "creation" is uniquely an earthly event. Although, you and I both know that some obscure Bible verse would eventually be discovered as describing the event. "Ah, see, science "proving" the religious texts".

Send a probe to Mars, and prove life developed off the planet Earth. This we are doing. What theists are doing to establish their suppositions... well, forgive the irony, but, gawd only knows.

Why limit yourself to Mars?

The universe is truly vast beyond the imagination of most people

Not limiting myself to Mars. That was a real here and now example of science exploration.

 

[LittleNipper]

Simple --- aliens don't automatically come with the reality of HEAVEN and HELL.

 

[james bond]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course you cannot prove anything you say

And all you have is the story as I said there is no scientific , empirical proof that a biblical god exists

That's not the topic of this thread, so you are wrong again.

There has been plenty of evidence cited for the existence of Lord Jesus Christ. One is the Resurrection. It has not been disproven.

 

[james bond]

What are the qualifications needed to be a certified “ufologist”?

What you personally think about this topic is irrelevant. The topic has to do with aliens, so it is perfectly relevant to bring up people who have spent decades researching the topic. Another thing I find funny is that in one breath you guys say 'I don't care about credentials' but in the next breath you imply that credentials do matter. I'm actually laughing at you and the other atheist, your posts speak volumes about you, not anyone else.

No one is saying you can’t believe that aliens are among us or aliens exist. Honestly, that’s no more outrageous than people believing in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or other tales of monsters and demons. It's not for me personally, and I argue that such things had their place and there are better and more realistic models that show factual evidence. Those will eventually replace beliefs in monsters and demons (like these days you don't hear about monsters and demons, but instead the more science-oriented UFOs and aliens -- both are mythic belief systems with no evidence in support of the claims).

I never said that I believe in "aliens." In fact, I stated earlier that I believe it's a deception. But at the same time, I think it's incredibly arrogant and willfully blind to conclude that no other forms of life exist anywhere, without doing the research. That's like claiming to be omniscient, while having only a tiny bit of knowledge...it is arrogant and foolish.

One thing I have learned is that truth is often stranger than fiction. The reason I posted those quotes on the previous page is because many of the researchers who spent decades studying this topic changed their view from the standard idea that life may exist on other planets, to the idea that those entities are interdimensional. Secular researchers coming to that conclusion is interesting, and you can dismiss the whole thing if you want, but since you're not the one who did the research and interviewed hundreds of people, your opinion is based on what you already believe… not on years of research and a genuine search for truth.

Suppose life exists elsewhere? That would be utterly devastating to the religious articles as "creation" is uniquely an earthly event. Although, you and I both know that some obscure Bible verse would eventually be discovered as describing the event. "Ah, see, science "proving" the religious texts".

Send a probe to Mars, and prove life developed off the planet Earth. This we are doing. What theists are doing to establish their suppositions... well, forgive the irony, but, gawd only knows.

Why limit yourself to Mars?

The universe is truly vast beyond the imagination of most people

Taxpayers are already balking at sending people to a dead planet. Instead, there may be some hope for a supply and refueling station on the moon. Jesus likes the moon.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course you cannot prove anything you say

And all you have is the story as I said there is no scientific , empirical proof that a biblical god exists

That's not the topic of this thread, so you are wrong again.

There has been plenty of evidence cited for the existence of Lord Jesus Christ. One is the Resurrection. It has not been disproven.

And it has not been proven

All you have for proof is what was written in the Bible and that doesn't come anywhere near the standards of scientific proof

 

[james bond]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course you cannot prove anything you say

And all you have is the story as I said there is no scientific , empirical proof that a biblical god exists

That's not the topic of this thread, so you are wrong again.

There has been plenty of evidence cited for the existence of Lord Jesus Christ. One is the Resurrection. It has not been disproven.

And it has not been proven

All you have for proof is what was written in the Bible and that doesn't come anywhere near the standards of scientific proof

I said that it has not been disproven. The evidence is there. God made it so that we cannot prove the existence of God. He also made it so that we will not be able to find out the beginning nor the end. That will forever be in theory. This is part of his free will command; It's similar to the one command that he gave Adam and Eve. It will be proven in the afterlife.

There is no scientific proof, so you are ignorant of science. There is only the best theory and scientific method to come up with it. To the contrary, the standards of scientific method and evidence is with the hypothesis in the Bible. Observational science backs it up. For example, in 2017, we found the chicken came before the egg. This can be demonstrated by experiment. Evolution is only based on historical science. Only natural selection is observational science. Creation scientists have their own natural selection theory and it's based on shorter or rapid times than evolution with its long times.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Simple --- aliens don't automatically come with the reality of HEAVEN and HELL.

Neither do gods. That's a fairly unique quirk of your preferred fairy tale.

 

[Hollie]

For one no one has ever seen god. There is no scientific proof that a biblical god actually exists.

But we have seen that life already exists in the universe so we know it's distinct possibility, seeing that the universe is so vast, that other life exists

Atheists are usually wrong. We have the history of Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course you cannot prove anything you say

And all you have is the story as I said there is no scientific , empirical proof that a biblical god exists

That's not the topic of this thread, so you are wrong again.

There has been plenty of evidence cited for the existence of Lord Jesus Christ. One is the Resurrection. It has not been disproven.

And it has not been proven

All you have for proof is what was written in the Bible and that doesn't come anywhere near the standards of scientific proof

I said that it has not been disproven. The evidence is there. God made it so that we cannot prove the existence of God. He also made it so that we will not be able to find out the beginning nor the end. That will forever be in theory. This is part of his free will command; It's similar to the one command that he gave Adam and Eve. It will be proven in the afterlife.

There is no scientific proof, so you are ignorant of science. There is only the best theory and scientific method to come up with it. To the contrary, the standards of scientific method and evidence is with the hypothesis in the Bible. Observational science backs it up. For example, in 2017, we found the chicken came before the egg. This can be demonstrated by experiment. Evolution is only based on historical science. Only natural selection is observational science. Creation scientists have their own natural selection theory and it's based on shorter or rapid times than evolution with its long times.

Your nonsensical "It has not been disproven" meme is rife with the tangy taste of fallacy. So, I'll lay it out for you.
There is no proof god(s) don’t exist. I’d say this applies equally to Santa Claus, leprechauns, fairies, Invisible Pink Unicorns, etc ad infinitum.

Show of hands please (cybernetically speaking):

How many believe that because there's no evidence to suggest Santa Claus, leprechauns, fairies, IPUs do not exist, therefore they might and so believe in them?

How many put gods in that category anyway?

Here's the part that applies to me, you, and everyone else: "Your stating something does not make it true."

Ok. All things being equal, this applies not only to me, but to those who assert the supernatural, and to you.

Now person "A "asserts there are gods (if the religious aspect of the assertion compels you to immediately assume the assertion is true, swap out the religious connotation -- make it elves or fairies, or leprechauns)

This is a true assertion or not? How do we discern if it's true or not? What stands as the defining factor as to whether or not it stands as true?

Someone's say so? A book? A story? What? What defines something as a fact?

Well, that's simple. Evidence. Verifiable evidence. If evidence is not the standard by which we define what is knowledge and what is not, then any assertion made by all and anyone is just as much viable as any other assertion. Such an approach is indistinguishable from utter chaos.

Suddenly, if gods are allowed to be "facts" because the bibles says so and you want it to be so, then this world is overrun with all sorts of satyrs and dragons and fleepbizzels and trolls and so on and so forth. You may not have a problem living in such a phantasmagorical nonsense world, but I prefer reality (and facing reality helps us manage a world that can be unpredictable).

It is not "an opinion" that gods do not exist, they simply do not have verifiable evidence. Those who assert the extraordinary are required to prove their assertions! There is no arguing this. This idea that those who say, "What a minute, why should I believe your claim that a blitzmorg exists is true? Can you prove a blitzmorg exists?" somehow are now tasked with proving the blitzmorg doesn't exist is ludicrous. Why should I have to disprove your claim, when you don't think you have to bother proving your assertion? That's ridiculous.


Oh, by the way, I'll use your "standards" of verification and pass something along to you. I have proof that the gods do not exist. Prove I don't.

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

Because they know we and everything around us cannot be the result from an explosion, but can’t admit there is a God so they invent aliens.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

Because they know we and everything around us cannot be the result from an explosion, but can’t admit there is a God so they invent aliens.

Only 1 post, yet the dumbest post of the thread. Good job....very efficient work....

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's a question that intrigues me, the fact that atheist scientists say there's no proof of God, but then declare to the world that there MUST be millions of alien civilizations in our universe.

There is, in fact, more proof of God than there are of aliens.

Because there's NO PROOF of aliens.

NONE.

NADA.

While the proof of God is that there is a Bible that somehow came to be, and archaelogists have found many places identified in the Bible, like the Tomb of the Patriarchs, Herod's Temple, Peter's tomb, etc.

If aliens lived ANYWHERE we would know it by now because they would have contacted us.

Because they know we and everything around us cannot be the result from an explosion, but can’t admit there is a God so they invent aliens.

Only 1 post, yet the dumbest post of the thread. Good job....very efficient work....

I’ve seen better rebuttals from 3 year olds.