Why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions?

[bripat9643]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

No it wouldn't. We can make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas.

So why don't we? Thats an absurd assertion.

That should be "we can't make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas."

 

[The Rabbi]

They arent doing any of those things.
The reason this is an issue is because we have the worst economy since WW2. If businesses were being formed, expanding, and hiring at normal rates no one would notice immigration.

They aren't doing any of those things? So what you're telling me is that when I went to vote in the primary, I wasn't handed an English/Spanish ballot? All the signs on the tables and doors were written in English only? You mean to tell me I don't have to press 1 to speak to a representative in our language? None of that is happening?

Yes, they are keeping our wages lower because employers can hire them over us because they are willing to work for less money. Without them, employers that couldn't' find American employees would have to make a better offer to attract workers. I see it in my industry daily.

They are not sending our money back over the border? What do you think work Visas are?

I didnt see any Spanish language notices the last time I voted.
Employers cannot hire illegals over legal citizens.
If you do not support employers' rights to hire whomever they want at whatever wage they can agree on then you are not a conservative. You are a statist.

No, employers DO hire illegals over American citizens, just not legally. They do hire foreigners first because their wage is too low for an American to accept. And it will stay low as long as we have open borders and work Visas to take those jobs keeping them at low pay.

Conservatism is about Americans first--not foreigners first. Liberalism is about foreigners first.

And if you don't see Spanish ballots and signs all over the place at your polls, get ready, because it's spreading across America like a cancer. You may be the last to get hit, but it's coming very soon.

They subject themselves to large penalties and criminal charges so I doubt they do so knowingly. In any case the eVerify database is a mess with many false results.
When you hire someone to paint your house do you always take the highest bid?

No I don't, but I also don't hire foreigners to do work here. And yes, if a foreigner submitted a lower bid over an American, I would hire the American first.

So you're guilty of discrimination as well. Thanks.

 

[bripat9643]

It's always amusing watching conservatives pretend they're really libertarians, despite all of their authoritarian policies. If you really want to be libertarians, all you have to do is sign a little pledge...

How would that pledge open the door to unlimited immigration?

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

I am totally against raising tariffs on imports. Tariffs are one thing, open borders is another. Immigration of cheap foreign labor harms American workers. There is simply no disputing that.

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

No it wouldn't. We can make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas.

So why don't we? Thats an absurd assertion.

That should be "we can't make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas."

OK, that's better and thanks.
We benefit from cheaper goods which allows us to spend those savings on other things.

 

[Dr Grump]

Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting your understanding was wrong.

Thank you for admitting you needed to make your post because you found it too hard to join the dots and needed an explanation. You're welcome.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate your command of English and grammar is about that of a 3 year old. Your post was total gibberish.
Next.

Translation: "Just got my arse kicked again, so I'll just go the ad hom route. As usual"....

That is a good translation of your post.
You assert there is no American exceptionalism because other countries make some trinket better than we do and I point out that American exceptionalism is not about making trinkets and you deflect to some irrational bullshit.

So you're saying the foundations of American Exceptionalism don't lead to free market ideals and economies? interesting (well, not really - you not being able to marry the two is not surprising).

 

[The Rabbi]

It's always amusing watching conservatives pretend they're really libertarians, despite all of their authoritarian policies. If you really want to be libertarians, all you have to do is sign a little pledge...

What authoritarian policies would those be? Conservatives are not libertarians and libertarians are not anarchists.

 

[bripat9643]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

I am totally against raising tariffs on imports. Tariffs are one thing, open borders is another. Immigration of cheap foreign labor harms American workers. There is simply no disputing that.

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

It's not the same because once that cheap labor is located here on our shores it can compete for higher paying jobs that aren't available overseas.

 

[TemplarKormac]

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

First of all I think you're unhappy that you're running into so much resistance to your assertion.

Second, I do understand economics, and it is for that reason I favor moderate restrictions on labor, trade, and immigration. Because in an effort to stimulate free movement thereof, you could also hinder them as well.

Third, I love how people try to define what a "basic conservative" is. The definition isn't so rigid and dogmatic. But I guess I'll cue you up as one of those conservatives who like to dictate conservative values to other conservatives. Ironically, liberals do likewise.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting your understanding was wrong.

Thank you for admitting you needed to make your post because you found it too hard to join the dots and needed an explanation. You're welcome.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate your command of English and grammar is about that of a 3 year old. Your post was total gibberish.
Next.

Translation: "Just got my arse kicked again, so I'll just go the ad hom route. As usual"....

That is a good translation of your post.
You assert there is no American exceptionalism because other countries make some trinket better than we do and I point out that American exceptionalism is not about making trinkets and you deflect to some irrational bullshit.

So you're saying the foundations of American Exceptionalism don't lead to free market ideals and economies? interesting (well, not really - you not being able to marry the two is not surprising).

You must Dick from the Internet.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

I am totally against raising tariffs on imports. Tariffs are one thing, open borders is another. Immigration of cheap foreign labor harms American workers. There is simply no disputing that.

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

It's not the same because once that cheap labor is located here on our shores it can compete for higher paying jobs that aren't available overseas.

So once cheap labor comes here it becomes uncheap labor and takes over because it is cheaper? Is that what you mean to say?

 

[The Rabbi]

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

First of all I think you're unhappy that you're running into so much resistance to your assertion.

Second I do understand economics, and it is for that reason I favor moderate restrictions on labor, trade, and immigration. Because in an effort to stimulate free movement thereof, you could also hinder them as well.

Third, I love how people try to define what a "basic conservative" is. The definition isn't so rigid and dogmatic. But I guess I'll cue you up as one of those conservatives who like to dictate conservative values to other conservatives. Ironically, liberals do likewise.

First I am not unhappy. You are projecting because you are getting your ass kicked here.
Second, you clearly do not understand economics, which dictates that free markets are the best allocation of resources for all involved
Third, free movement of labor and capital have always been hallmarks of what we call conservatism today but which was indentified as classical liberalsim is otehr eras. It isnt my opinion. I dont force that on anyone. It is a fact and you can ignore it as you wish.

 

[Dr Grump]

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

What's the point of importing cheap shotgun barrels when there is no market left because nobody has a job because they've been exported?

Western countries can no longer rely on primary industry/manufacturing jobs for their economies. We have become service-orientated economies.

 

[The Rabbi]

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

What's the point of importing cheap shotgun barrels when there is no market left because nobody has a job because they've been exported?

Western countries can no longer rely on primary industry/manufacturing jobs for their economies. We have become service-orientated economies.

LOL. Yes, there are no jobs in America.
Before Obama we had unemployment rates typcally in the 4-5% range and we imported at least as much.
Please refresh your memory on "comparative advantage" as a basic economics precept.

 

[The Rabbi]

You have no idea what you are saying.
If China produces shotgun barrels cheaper than we can and we import them for that reason, part of that cheapness is due to their low labor cost. We are simply importing the low labor cost here along with the item.
Importing goods is simply analogous to importing labor. We benefit from cheap prices no matter what.

What's the point of importing cheap shotgun barrels when there is no market left because nobody has a job because they've been exported?

Western countries can no longer rely on primary industry/manufacturing jobs for their economies. We have become service-orientated economies.

Germany is an enormous exporter despite having some of the highest labor rates in the world. How do you explain that?

 

[Dr Grump]

LOL. Yes, there are no jobs in America.
Before Obama we had unemployment rates typcally in the 4-5% range and we imported at least as much.
Please refresh your memory on "comparative advantage" as a basic economics precept.

Love it. "Before Obama". Let's not talk about the little thing called the GFC he inherited....No, don't mention that little nugget...

Imported at least as much? How is the auto industry these days?

 

[Dr Grump]

Germany is an enormous exporter despite having some of the highest labor rates in the world. How do you explain that?

A better form of govt, and a much more practical - as opposed to emotional - way of dealing with economics. I won't even go into the quality of product they produce....

 

[The Rabbi]

LOL. Yes, there are no jobs in America.
Before Obama we had unemployment rates typcally in the 4-5% range and we imported at least as much.
Please refresh your memory on "comparative advantage" as a basic economics precept.

Love it. "Before Obama". Let's not talk about the little thing called the GFC he inherited....No, don't mention that little nugget...

Imported at least as much? How is the auto industry these days?

Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

 

[The Rabbi]

Germany is an enormous exporter despite having some of the highest labor rates in the world. How do you explain that?

A better form of govt, and a much more practical - as opposed to emotional - way of dealing with economics. I won't even go into the quality of product they produce....

How is a better form of gov't responsible for making their products competitive?

 

[TemplarKormac]

First I am not unhappy. You are projecting because you are getting your ass kicked here.

First off, projection is you thinking I'm getting my ass kicked here.