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I am not certain what the number of illegals or the debt has to do with this.The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Not sure they oppose legal immigration
11 million illegals with a 19 Trillion debt makes absolutely no sense.
Their consumers pay higher prices for every item they buy, lowering their standard of living. If that were a formula for success East Germany would be an economic powerhouse.It doesnt matter what other countries do. They lose by imposing high tariffs on imports
What you mean they lose? they have a captive closed market of 50mil customers. But they also get access to our 300mil market? sound like a 1/6 built in head start for South Korea?
The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.
Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.
Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.
We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.
It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.
Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.
Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.
We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.
The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.
The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.
I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.
You are babbling using terms you dont understand. Labor is labor. Capital is capital. Capitalism means free trade which means buyers and sellers coming together in free agreement without gov't imposing restrictions.Do you dispute that free movement of labor and capital are traditionally bedrock principles of conservatism?
Capitalism is the at the very core of conservatism.
But at what point during the effort to ensure capitalism do we wind up hindering it? When we accept foreign labor (or illegal) over American labor, in favor of paying them cheaper wages, you favor one form of capital over another. If Americans aren't working and paying into the economy, or contributing their capital to such, that's not "free movement of labor and capital" as you put it, since foreigners and their capital are the only things actually moving.
There is no "comparative advantage" given you are favoring one type of commodity from another country (foreign labor and capital), at the expense of American commodities (American labor and capital).
Also, it seems we are the only ones right now exporting labor along with other things, if so involuntarily. Wouldn't that mean we're giving other countries an "absolute advantage"?
You can redefine "conservative" to mean "statist" all you want.
Your mistake is thinking I'm trying to redefine anything as anything else. I don't force my interpretations of reality onto other people, unlike you.
So you favor government control over people? How conservative. It is not harmful to American workers and no one has shown that.You are babbling using terms you dont understand. Labor is labor. Capital is capital. Capitalism means free trade which means buyers and sellers coming together in free agreement without gov't imposing restrictions.Do you dispute that free movement of labor and capital are traditionally bedrock principles of conservatism?
Capitalism is the at the very core of conservatism.
But at what point during the effort to ensure capitalism do we wind up hindering it? When we accept foreign labor (or illegal) over American labor, in favor of paying them cheaper wages, you favor one form of capital over another. If Americans aren't working and paying into the economy, or contributing their capital to such, that's not "free movement of labor and capital" as you put it, since foreigners and their capital are the only things actually moving.
There is no "comparative advantage" given you are favoring one type of commodity from another country (foreign labor and capital), at the expense of American commodities (American labor and capital).
Also, it seems we are the only ones right now exporting labor along with other things, if so involuntarily. Wouldn't that mean we're giving other countries an "absolute advantage"?
You can redefine "conservative" to mean "statist" all you want.
Your mistake is thinking I'm trying to redefine anything as anything else. I don't force my interpretations of reality onto other people, unlike you.
The point of having a nation is controlling what comes across our borders, especially human beings. Unlimited immigration is harmful to American workers. That's the bottom line. I don't see ignoring that for the sake of some abstract principle that no one gives a damn about.
Labor is labor. Capital is capital.
It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.
Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.
Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.
We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.
The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.
The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.
I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.
Labor is labor. Capital is capital.
As my Jedi Master Obi-Wan puts it: Only an establishmentarian deals in absolutes.
There are different types of labor and different types of capital. There are at least three types of capital I can think of off the top of my head, such as human capital, social capital and financial capital just to name some. And for someone so versed in economics, you would know that there are two basic forms of labor: skilled and unskilled.
I favor government control over non Americans. I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that.So you favor government control over people? How conservative. It is not harmful to American workers and no one has shown that.You are babbling using terms you dont understand. Labor is labor. Capital is capital. Capitalism means free trade which means buyers and sellers coming together in free agreement without gov't imposing restrictions.Do you dispute that free movement of labor and capital are traditionally bedrock principles of conservatism?
Capitalism is the at the very core of conservatism.
But at what point during the effort to ensure capitalism do we wind up hindering it? When we accept foreign labor (or illegal) over American labor, in favor of paying them cheaper wages, you favor one form of capital over another. If Americans aren't working and paying into the economy, or contributing their capital to such, that's not "free movement of labor and capital" as you put it, since foreigners and their capital are the only things actually moving.
There is no "comparative advantage" given you are favoring one type of commodity from another country (foreign labor and capital), at the expense of American commodities (American labor and capital).
Also, it seems we are the only ones right now exporting labor along with other things, if so involuntarily. Wouldn't that mean we're giving other countries an "absolute advantage"?
You can redefine "conservative" to mean "statist" all you want.
Your mistake is thinking I'm trying to redefine anything as anything else. I don't force my interpretations of reality onto other people, unlike you.
The point of having a nation is controlling what comes across our borders, especially human beings. Unlimited immigration is harmful to American workers. That's the bottom line. I don't see ignoring that for the sake of some abstract principle that no one gives a damn about.
How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.
Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.
Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.
We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.
The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.
The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.
I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.
All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.
Because it's authoritarianism? Just a guess.I favor government control over non Americans. I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that.So you favor government control over people? How conservative. It is not harmful to American workers and no one has shown that.You are babbling using terms you dont understand. Labor is labor. Capital is capital. Capitalism means free trade which means buyers and sellers coming together in free agreement without gov't imposing restrictions.Do you dispute that free movement of labor and capital are traditionally bedrock principles of conservatism?
Capitalism is the at the very core of conservatism.
But at what point during the effort to ensure capitalism do we wind up hindering it? When we accept foreign labor (or illegal) over American labor, in favor of paying them cheaper wages, you favor one form of capital over another. If Americans aren't working and paying into the economy, or contributing their capital to such, that's not "free movement of labor and capital" as you put it, since foreigners and their capital are the only things actually moving.
There is no "comparative advantage" given you are favoring one type of commodity from another country (foreign labor and capital), at the expense of American commodities (American labor and capital).
Also, it seems we are the only ones right now exporting labor along with other things, if so involuntarily. Wouldn't that mean we're giving other countries an "absolute advantage"?
You can redefine "conservative" to mean "statist" all you want.
Your mistake is thinking I'm trying to redefine anything as anything else. I don't force my interpretations of reality onto other people, unlike you.
The point of having a nation is controlling what comes across our borders, especially human beings. Unlimited immigration is harmful to American workers. That's the bottom line. I don't see ignoring that for the sake of some abstract principle that no one gives a damn about.
It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?
Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.
Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.
Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.
We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.
The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.
The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.
I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.
All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.
Labor is labor. Capital is capital.
As my Jedi Master Obi-Wan puts it: Only an establishmentarian deals in absolutes.
There are different types of labor and different types of capital. There are at least three types of capital I can think of off the top of my head, such as human capital, social capital and financial capital just to name some. And for someone so versed in economics, you would know that there are two basic forms of labor: skilled and unskilled.
When you resort to spurious differences that are irrelevant to the discussion then there isnt much to respond to.Labor is labor. Capital is capital.
As my Jedi Master Obi-Wan puts it: Only an establishmentarian deals in absolutes.
There are different types of labor and different types of capital. There are at least three types of capital I can think of off the top of my head, such as human capital, social capital and financial capital just to name some. And for someone so versed in economics, you would know that there are two basic forms of labor: skilled and unskilled.
Not even going to reply anymore, are you?
When you resort to spurious differences that are irrelevant to the discussion then there isn't much to respond to.
They may be people, but they aren't Americans. Limiting immigration doesn't limit my freedom, and that's all I care about. That's all any American should care about. Our government exists to serve the interests of Americans, not foreigners. They can fix the problems with their own country rather than bringing their problems to this one.
It's the first. Someone who doesnt understand what "comparative advantage" means isnt qualified to engage in this debate.When you resort to spurious differences that are irrelevant to the discussion then there isnt much to respond to.
Or is it that you can't provide a sufficient counter argument?
How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.
So how many illegal aliens would you like to keep?How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.
Who said we wanted to get rid of it completely?
