Why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions?

[TemplarKormac]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

 

[bripat9643]

The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?

When did opening borders to unlimited immigration ever have anything to do with conservatism? That may benefit the immigrants, but it doesn't benefit us. Labor should be free to move within the country, but not into the country.

Free movement of labor and capital. Which part of that is confusing to you? Free movement means free movement, regardless of borders.

Nothing is confusing me. Where you are confused is your belief that somehow Americans benefit by importing cheap labor from overseas. We don't.

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

Yes, but they don't benefit by importing cheap labor. How do they benefit by importing competition for their own services?

 

[Dr Grump]

What is wrong with protectionism?

Ask american exporters...

What do we export to China and Mexico?

Jobs!

 

[Dovahkiin]

This is a good thing, since "balancing the budget" is lunacy anyways.

And I bet you're the type who liked to ride a see-saw with only one person. Balance is a good thing.

No, it's really not.

What the hell is a "private sector balance?"

Your chart is meaningless.

Flow-of-funds and sectoral balances

What the hell is that supposed to mean? What "sectors" balanced against what other sectors?

You're spewing abracadabra.

Private sector, government sector, foreign sector.

 

[The Rabbi]

The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?

Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.

Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.

Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.

We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.

They arent doing any of those things.
The reason this is an issue is because we have the worst economy since WW2. If businesses were being formed, expanding, and hiring at normal rates no one would notice immigration.

They aren't doing any of those things? So what you're telling me is that when I went to vote in the primary, I wasn't handed an English/Spanish ballot? All the signs on the tables and doors were written in English only? You mean to tell me I don't have to press 1 to speak to a representative in our language? None of that is happening?

Yes, they are keeping our wages lower because employers can hire them over us because they are willing to work for less money. Without them, employers that couldn't' find American employees would have to make a better offer to attract workers. I see it in my industry daily.

They are not sending our money back over the border? What do you think work Visas are?

I didnt see any Spanish language notices the last time I voted.
Employers cannot hire illegals over legal citizens.
If you do not support employers' rights to hire whomever they want at whatever wage they can agree on then you are not a conservative. You are a statist.

No, employers DO hire illegals over American citizens, just not legally. They do hire foreigners first because their wage is too low for an American to accept. And it will stay low as long as we have open borders and work Visas to take those jobs keeping them at low pay.

Conservatism is about Americans first--not foreigners first. Liberalism is about foreigners first.

And if you don't see Spanish ballots and signs all over the place at your polls, get ready, because it's spreading across America like a cancer. You may be the last to get hit, but it's coming very soon.

They subject themselves to large penalties and criminal charges so I doubt they do so knowingly. In any case the eVerify database is a mess with many false results.
When you hire someone to paint your house do you always take the highest bid?

 

[Dr Grump]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

But conservative America believes in free market economies...

 

[bripat9643]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

No it wouldn't. We can make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting your understanding was wrong.

Thank you for admitting you needed to make your post because you found it too hard to join the dots and needed an explanation. You're welcome.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate your command of English and grammar is about that of a 3 year old. Your post was total gibberish.
Next.

 

[bripat9643]

This is a good thing, since "balancing the budget" is lunacy anyways.

And I bet you're the type who liked to ride a see-saw with only one person. Balance is a good thing.

No, it's really not.

What am I supposed to glean from that chart, exactly?

When the governments "balances the budget" the private sector suffers.

How?

 

[TemplarKormac]

We can make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas.

So doesn't that make my point?

 

[Dr Grump]

Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting your understanding was wrong.

Thank you for admitting you needed to make your post because you found it too hard to join the dots and needed an explanation. You're welcome.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate your command of English and grammar is about that of a 3 year old. Your post was total gibberish.
Next.

Translation: "Just got my arse kicked again, so I'll just go the ad hom route. As usual"....

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

 

[bripat9643]

And I bet you're the type who liked to ride a see-saw with only one person. Balance is a good thing.

No, it's really not.

What the hell is a "private sector balance?"

Your chart is meaningless.

Flow-of-funds and sectoral balances

What the hell is that supposed to mean? What "sectors" balanced against what other sectors?

You're spewing abracadabra.

Private sector, government sector, foreign sector.

You're still babbling.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

No it wouldn't. We can make a lot of products as cheaply as they can overseas.

So why don't we? Thats an absurd assertion.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting your understanding was wrong.

Thank you for admitting you needed to make your post because you found it too hard to join the dots and needed an explanation. You're welcome.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate your command of English and grammar is about that of a 3 year old. Your post was total gibberish.
Next.

Translation: "Just got my arse kicked again, so I'll just go the ad hom route. As usual"....

That is a good translation of your post.
You assert there is no American exceptionalism because other countries make some trinket better than we do and I point out that American exceptionalism is not about making trinkets and you deflect to some irrational bullshit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.

Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.

Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.

We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.

They arent doing any of those things.
The reason this is an issue is because we have the worst economy since WW2. If businesses were being formed, expanding, and hiring at normal rates no one would notice immigration.

They aren't doing any of those things? So what you're telling me is that when I went to vote in the primary, I wasn't handed an English/Spanish ballot? All the signs on the tables and doors were written in English only? You mean to tell me I don't have to press 1 to speak to a representative in our language? None of that is happening?

Yes, they are keeping our wages lower because employers can hire them over us because they are willing to work for less money. Without them, employers that couldn't' find American employees would have to make a better offer to attract workers. I see it in my industry daily.

They are not sending our money back over the border? What do you think work Visas are?

I didnt see any Spanish language notices the last time I voted.
Employers cannot hire illegals over legal citizens.
If you do not support employers' rights to hire whomever they want at whatever wage they can agree on then you are not a conservative. You are a statist.

No, employers DO hire illegals over American citizens, just not legally. They do hire foreigners first because their wage is too low for an American to accept. And it will stay low as long as we have open borders and work Visas to take those jobs keeping them at low pay.

Conservatism is about Americans first--not foreigners first. Liberalism is about foreigners first.

And if you don't see Spanish ballots and signs all over the place at your polls, get ready, because it's spreading across America like a cancer. You may be the last to get hit, but it's coming very soon.

They subject themselves to large penalties and criminal charges so I doubt they do so knowingly. In any case the eVerify database is a mess with many false results.
When you hire someone to paint your house do you always take the highest bid?

No I don't, but I also don't hire foreigners to do work here. And yes, if a foreigner submitted a lower bid over an American, I would hire the American first.

 

[bripat9643]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

OK so you dont understand economics and are basically a fascist. Got it.
Please explain then why we shouldn't outlaw importing oil and rely on domestically produced fuels, including solar and wind. Keep in mind the result of that will be to increase prices on energy by probably 40% or more.

I am totally against raising tariffs on imports. Tariffs are one thing, open borders is another. Immigration of cheap foreign labor harms American workers. There is simply no disputing that.

 

[Dovahkiin]

No, it's really not.

What the hell is a "private sector balance?"

Your chart is meaningless.

Flow-of-funds and sectoral balances

What the hell is that supposed to mean? What "sectors" balanced against what other sectors?

You're spewing abracadabra.

Private sector, government sector, foreign sector.

You're still babbling.

You asked me for the sectors.

 

[FaerieGodfather]

It's always amusing watching conservatives pretend they're really libertarians, despite all of their authoritarian policies. If you really want to be libertarians, all you have to do is sign a little pledge...

 

[The Rabbi]

Do Americans benefit by importing cheap TVs, cheap steel, or cheap anything else?

No. Making them here in America would solve that problem.

But conservative America believes in free market economies...

You would think so. But this thread demonstrates it isnt so. There are reliable conservatives on this forum on here arguing for the most outrageous restrictions on private enterprise and demanding intrusive gov't action.