Who Started World War II, the answer is clear USSR (commies ) - Koba with occupation of BPR, UPR, Ge

[harmonica]

If you really want to understand WW II in Europe, you must read
The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II, by Viktor Suvorov, a former Soviet intelligence officer. Suvorov's book was a wildly popular best seller in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe, but American historians largely ignored or summarily dismissed the book because it invalidates much of what our history books say on the subject.

Suvorov proves beyond any doubt that the Soviets were a week or two away from attacking Germany, and that Hitler found out about it and beat them to the punch. Among other evidence, Suvorov provides numerous statements from Soviet generals who freely acknowledged that they were about to launch a massive attack on Germany. The reason the Germans were able to trounce the Soviets in the early going and capture such huge amounts of equipment and ammo is that the Soviets were in an offensive posture and therefore had brought up mountains of supplies to support them when they attacked.

An interesting side note is that the Soviets were very worried that the U.S. and Japan would reach a peace deal in 1941 and that the Japanese would thus be able to attack the Soviets.

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!!
in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!!
..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

 

[mikegriffith1]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

 

[harmonica]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

 

[gipper]

If you really want to understand WW II in Europe, you must read
The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II, by Viktor Suvorov, a former Soviet intelligence officer. Suvorov's book was a wildly popular best seller in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe, but American historians largely ignored or summarily dismissed the book because it invalidates much of what our history books say on the subject. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.

Suvorov proves beyond any doubt that the Soviets were a week or two away from attacking Germany, and that Hitler found out about it and beat them to the punch. Among other evidence, Suvorov provides numerous statements from Soviet generals who freely acknowledged that they were about to launch a massive attack on Germany. The reason the Germans were able to trounce the Soviets in the early going and capture such huge amounts of equipment and ammo is that the Soviets were in an offensive posture and therefore had brought up mountains of supplies to support them when they attacked.

An interesting side note is that the Soviets were very worried that the U.S. and Japan would reach a peace deal in 1941 and that the Japanese would thus be able to attack the Soviets.

Yes it is sad that our historians are so incompetent.

It amazes me that the USSR could essentially lose most of their army and material early in the war, but manage to overcome this and prevail over Nazi Germany.

 

[gipper]

..that's why the Soviets got a huge a$$ whipping June 1941.......????!! in an ''offensive posture''' yet got their butts whipped???!!! ..and the reason they were going to attack Germany?

Uh, yeah, if someone attacks you when you are postured to attack in a few days, with your units lightly bivouacked and your supplies brought forward and exposed, yes, you are likely to get mauled.

Why attack Germany? Uh, because Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. With Europe under Hitler's control, a swift, shock defeat of Germany would hand Europe over to Stalin.

Read the book.

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

LOL. Really?

Somehow I am not surprised. Most Americans have very little understanding of the beginning of WWII.

 

[mikegriffith1]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

If a military force is postured to launch an offensive, it has no defensive zone built in front of it because it's going to want to move rapidly forward. It has its supplies brought forward and ready to move. Its artillery is ready to move. Etc., etc., etc. So if someone attacks the force when it is in that posture, what do you think is likely to happen? Exactly what happened to the Soviets.

 

[harmonica]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

hahahahhahahahhah

 

[gipper]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

Most Americans refuse to do that. They are stuck in sixth grade history class, at the government school.

 

[harmonica]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

.....and---you got your butt whipped so bad in the Nam Unwinnable thread, that you started another one...you were getting your a$$ whipped and couldn't take it
..you KNEW it, so you started another EXACT same thread
hahahhahahah

 

[harmonica]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

Most Americans refuse to do that. They are stuck in sixth grade history class, at the government school.

so the Germans did NOT attack Russia????!!
this is news to me

 

[gipper]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

Most Americans refuse to do that. They are stuck in sixth grade history class, at the government school.

so the Germans did NOT attack Russia????!!
this is news to me

LOL.

You know you lost the debate when you post a straw man.

 

[harmonica]

.....I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years and I've never seen anything like that

Umm, well, we saw from your comments on Pearl Harbor and Japan that your WW II reading has been woefully inadequate. Again, dare yourself to read something that doesn't follow the PC line and break down and read the book.

Most Americans refuse to do that. They are stuck in sixth grade history class, at the government school.

so the Germans did NOT attack Russia????!!
this is news to me

LOL.

You know you lost the debate when you post a straw man.

o, I know--I know---hahahahhahahahahah

 

[harmonica]

If you really want to understand WW II in Europe, you must read
The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II, by Viktor Suvorov, a former Soviet intelligence officer. Suvorov's book was a wildly popular best seller in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe, but American historians largely ignored or summarily dismissed the book because it invalidates much of what our history books say on the subject. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.

Suvorov proves beyond any doubt that the Soviets were a week or two away from attacking Germany, and that Hitler fou

unch.

nd out about it and beat them to the p Among other evidence, Suvorov provides numerous statements from Soviet generals who freely acknowledged that they were about to launch a massive attack on Germany. The reason the Germans were able to trounce the Soviets in the early going and capture such huge amounts of equipment and ammo is that the Soviets were in an offensive posture and therefore had brought up mountains of supplies to support them when they attacked.

An interesting side note is that the Soviets were very worried that the U.S. and Japan would reach a peace deal in 1941 and that the Japanese would thus be able to attack the Soviets.

1. the Russians barely '''beat''' tiny Finland, and you think they are going to attack Germany???!! hahahahah
2.

For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.

gee--I wonder why???!!! hahahahhah
3.

s that the Soviets were in an offensive posture and therefore had brought up mountains of supplies to support them when they attacked.

the Russians were ready--but then they were ''not ready'''???!!!!!
4.

that Hitler found out about it and beat them to the punch

hahahahah--hitler always wanted to attack Russia...he didn't find out anything

the seizure of prime land within Soviet borders for long-term German settlement had been core policy of the Nazi movement since the 1920s

Invasion of the Soviet Union, June 1941

 

[harmonica]

If you really want to understand WW II in Europe, you must read
The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II, by Viktor Suvorov, a former Soviet intelligence officer. Suvorov's book was a wildly popular best seller in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe, but American historians largely ignored or summarily dismissed the book because it invalidates much of what our history books say on the subject. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.

Suvorov proves beyond any doubt that the Soviets were a week or two away from attacking Germany, and that Hitler found out about it and beat them to the punch. Among other evidence, Suvorov provides numerous statements from Soviet generals who freely acknowledged that they were about to launch a massive attack on Germany. The reason the Germans were able to trounce the Soviets in the early going and capture such huge amounts of equipment and ammo is that the Soviets were in an offensive posture and therefore had brought up mountains of supplies to support them when they attacked.

An interesting side note is that the Soviets were very worried that the U.S. and Japan would reach a peace deal in 1941 and that the Japanese would thus be able to attack the Soviets.

For months, the Soviet leadership had refused to heed warnings from the western powers of the German troop buildup along its western border.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

What started World War II?

America refusal to stay in the League of Nations and not policing the rest of the World because many wanted to be Isolationists...

Why Truman thrust onto the World Stage as the cops of the World after World War II if we liked it or not...

I know many will disagree but fact is we were destined for another great war and we are again destined for another one...

 

[MaryL]

Actually world War two was just the first one postponed.The war to end all wars...So after Saudi Arabia did 9/11...we threaten them with law suits. 18 years later. After Pearl Harbor happened, we didn't hem and haw and wait for lawyers to tell us what to do...We didn't wait around until 1959 and then debate suing Japan.

 

[mikegriffith1]

1. the Russians barely '''beat''' tiny Finland, and you think they are going to attack Germany???!! hahahahah
2. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.
gee--I wonder why???!!! hahahahhah
the Russians were ready--but then they were ''not ready'''???!!!!!
hahahahah--hitler always wanted to attack Russia...he didn't find out anything

I don't know what on earth you've read in all your alleged vast reading on WW II, but your comments show your knowledge is very limited. Let's take your points in order.

Most military experts of the day believed the Soviets would be unable to penetrate Finland's Mannerheim Line. The Soviets managed to do so, but only with horrendous losses. When you're forced to attack through a narrow area, you will likely suffer severe losses.

Oh, so the reluctance of American publishers to publish a book that upended most American history books on WW II was because the book was dubious? I notice you didn't address the fact that when the U.S. Naval Institute reviewed the book, they decided to publish it. FYI, the U.S. Naval Institute Press is one of the most prestigious publishers of military books in the world. You'd know that if you were a serious student of WW II.

"The Russians were ready but then they were not ready": Are you in high school or something? Do you not understand the difference between being in a defensive posture and an offensive posture? No, the Russians were not ready to be attacked, and, yes, they were caught badly off guard. Stalin did not believe Hitler would attack, even though he was getting tons of intelligence to the contrary. When you attack a force that is just about to launch an attack and that has no defensive front built up, no lines of retreat, no fallback positions, that has its artillery in transport mode, and that has tons of supplies with them and just behind them, you are going to catch that force badly unprepared. How can anyone who claims to have read dozens of books on WW II not understand such basic military concepts? Suvorov spends many pages discussing the disposition of Soviet troops when they were attacked, and he explains in detail how that disposition greatly contributed to their astonishing losses in the early going.

Yes, of course, Hitler eventually wanted to attack the Soviet Union, but not so soon. Suvorov discusses this point in detail.

Why don't you crack your mind open just an inch and break down and read the book?

 

[Litwin]

1. the Russians barely '''beat''' tiny Finland, and you think they are going to attack Germany???!! hahahahah
2. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.
gee--I wonder why???!!! hahahahhah
the Russians were ready--but then they were ''not ready'''???!!!!!
hahahahah--hitler always wanted to attack Russia...he didn't find out anything

I don't know what on earth you've read in all your alleged vast reading on WW II, but your comments show your knowledge is very limited. Let's take your points in order.

Most military experts of the day believed the Soviets would be unable to penetrate Finland's Mannerheim Line. The Soviets managed to do so, but only with horrendous losses. When you're forced to attack through a narrow area, you will likely suffer severe losses.

Oh, so the reluctance of American publishers to publish a book that upended most American history books on WW II was because the book was dubious? I notice you didn't address the fact that when the U.S. Naval Institute reviewed the book, they decided to publish it. FYI, the U.S. Naval Institute Press is one of the most prestigious publishers of military books in the world. You'd know that if you were a serious student of WW II.

"The Russians were ready but then they were not ready": Are you in high school or something? Do you not understand the difference between being in a defensive posture and an offensive posture? No, the Russians were not ready to be attacked, and, yes, they were caught badly off guard. Stalin did not believe Hitler would attack, even though he was getting tons of intelligence to the contrary. When you attack a force that is just about to launch an attack and that has no defensive front built up, no lines of retreat, no fallback positions, that has its artillery in transport mode, and that has tons of supplies with them and just behind them, you are going to catch that force badly unprepared. How can anyone who claims to have read dozens of books on WW II not understand such basic military concepts? Suvorov spends many pages discussing the disposition of Soviet troops when they were attacked, and he explains in detail how that disposition greatly contributed to their astonishing losses in the early going.

Yes, of course, Hitler eventually wanted to attack the Soviet Union, but not so soon. Suvorov discusses this point in detail.

Why don't you crack your mind open just an inch and break down and read the book?

V Suvorov is not professional historian, and this is problem. but M Solonin Jewish russian professional historian, and he supports V Suvorov vision of WW2 history and develops it , its very clear today, that koba prepared the massive attack on Germany
"
Even the Soviet propagandists understood that it was not worth it to over-emphasize the subject of notorious «suddenness». (The word «even» in this case pertains not to the evaluation of their mental capacities but to the evaluation of the situation, which they were working under, feeling behind their backs a firm support from the «organs», which were ready to gag any objector). It gave a silly picture of the dear party, its wise Central Committee and the Leader himself – they could not distinguish the concentration of a three million strong enemy army next to the USSR borders. In the very first rays of «glasnost», the flowers of suddenness eventually faded. Today, even a conscientious high school pupil knows that a long swath of the heaviest defeats (the Uman, Kiev, Vyazma, Bryansk, Kerch and Kharkov «pockets») began in the summer of 1941, continued during the fall and renewed in May of 1942; what kind of «suddenness» could it be?

Correspondingly, a first and main «line of defence» in the Soviet historic mythology became a «multiple numerical advantage of the enemy, especially in tanks and aviation». This sounds really convincing. Weighty. A Soviet person, brainwashed from childhood, immediately imagined three Red Amy men with «one rifle for three of them» toward whom five Germans hidden behind the armour of a «Tiger» are moving. And right behind them, the formations of submachine gunners, all as one in APC’s. Try to fight in such environment!"

"Mark Solonin. Historian's personal webpage.Mark Solonin - June, 1941. Final diagnosis."

 

[harmonica]

1. the Russians barely '''beat''' tiny Finland, and you think they are going to attack Germany???!! hahahahah
2. For years Suvorov was unable to find an American publisher for the book; luckily, the U.S. Naval Institute agreed to publish it in 2008.
gee--I wonder why???!!! hahahahhah
the Russians were ready--but then they were ''not ready'''???!!!!!
hahahahah--hitler always wanted to attack Russia...he didn't find out anything

I don't know what on earth you've read in all your alleged vast reading on WW II, but your comments show your knowledge is very limited. Let's take your points in order.

Most military experts of the day believed the Soviets would be unable to penetrate Finland's Mannerheim Line. The Soviets managed to do so, but only with horrendous losses. When you're forced to attack through a narrow area, you will likely suffer severe losses.

Oh, so the reluctance of American publishers to publish a book that upended most American history books on WW II was because the book was dubious? I notice you didn't address the fact that when the U.S. Naval Institute reviewed the book, they decided to publish it. FYI, the U.S. Naval Institute Press is one of the most prestigious publishers of military books in the world. You'd know that if you were a serious student of WW II.

"The Russians were ready but then they were not ready": Are you in high school or something? Do you not understand the difference between being in a defensive posture and an offensive posture? No, the Russians were not ready to be attacked, and, yes, they were caught badly off guard. Stalin did not believe Hitler would attack, even though he was getting tons of intelligence to the contrary. When you attack a force that is just about to launch an attack and that has no defensive front built up, no lines of retreat, no fallback positions, that has its artillery in transport mode, and that has tons of supplies with them and just behind them, you are going to catch that force badly unprepared. How can anyone who claims to have read dozens of books on WW II not understand such basic military concepts? Suvorov spends many pages discussing the disposition of Soviet troops when they were attacked, and he explains in detail how that disposition greatly contributed to their astonishing losses in the early going.

Yes, of course, Hitler eventually wanted to attack the Soviet Union, but not so soon. Suvorov discusses this point in detail.

Why don't you crack your mind open just an inch and break down and read the book?

hahahhahahaaha
you said hitler attacked because he found out the Russians were going to attack Germany
hahhahahahhahha

 

[mikegriffith1]

hahahhahahaaha
you said hitler attacked because he found out the Russians were going to attack Germany
hahhahahahhahha

Seriously, are you in high school? Do your parents know you're using their computer?

I'll tell you what: Why don't you read Suvorov's book and then come back and discuss this issue, hey?

I agree with Litwin's suggestion that you should also read historian Mark Solonin's research on this issue. Here's a decent introduction to Suvorov's and Solonin's research:

bionic mosquito: Revisiting Suvorov

I recall that you're the one who said in the Hiroshima-Nagasaki thread that you'd never heard of the claim that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. You used your silly "hahahaha" line then, too. Have you heard of historian John Toland, Admiral James Richardson, Admiral Robert Theobald, Captain James Johns, Admiral Husband Kimmel, Captain Laurance Safford, Admiral Kemp Tolley, Lt. Cdr. James Stahlman, Governor Thomas Dewey, and President Herbert Hoover, to name a few of the scholars, senior military officers, and politicians who argued that FDR knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked and that he allowed it because he knew it would enable him to get the U.S. into the war?

The Roots of Infamy at Pearl Harbor – The Future of Freedom Foundation

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor? | Robert B. Stinnett