Who Started World War II, the answer is clear USSR (commies ) - Koba with occupation of BPR, UPR, Ge

[SavannahMann]

Serious researchers do not condemn a book they have not read, especially if the book has been published by a respected and established publishing house like the U.S. Naval Institute Press. By the way, here is what the U.S. Naval Institute says about Suvorov's book:

Bestselling author Victor Suvorov probes newly released Soviet documents and reevaluates existing material to analyze Stalin's strategic design to conquer Europe and the reasons behind his controversial support for Nazi Germany. A former Soviet army intelligence officer, the author explains that Stalin's strategy leading up to World War II grew from Vladimir Lenin's belief that if World War I did not ignite the worldwide Communist revolution, then a second world war would be needed to achieve it. Stalin saw Nazi Germany as the power that would fight and weaken capitalist countries so that Soviet armies could then sweep across Europe. Suvorov reveals how Stalin conspired with German leaders to bypass the Versailles Treaty, which forbade German rearmament, and secretly trained German engineers and officers and provided bases and factories for war. He also calls attention to the 1939 nonaggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany that allowed Hitler to proceed with his plans to invade Poland, fomenting war in Europe.​

Suvorov debunks the theory that Stalin was duped by Hitler and that the Soviet Union was a victim of Nazi aggression. Instead, he makes the case that Stalin neither feared Hitler nor mistakenly trusted him. Suvorov maintains that after Germany occupied Poland, defeated France, and started to prepare for an invasion of Great Britain, Hitler's intelligence services detected the Soviet Union's preparations for a major war against Germany. This detection, he argues, led to Germany's preemptive war plan and the launch of an invasion of the USSR. Stalin emerges from the pages of this book as a diabolical genius consumed by visions of a worldwide Communist revolution at any cost—a leader who wooed Hitler and Germany in his own effort to conquer the world. In contradicting traditional theories about Soviet planning, the book is certain to provoke debate among historians throughout the world. (The Chief Culprit)
​

I repeat. Nonsense.

Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia

First your Hero Suvorov has made no evidence available to anyone else. It is essentially take my word for it. It is contradicted by other evidence.

For example. The extensive preparations Stalin made for war are what forced Germany’s hand. If true. Why was the T-34 tank a surprise to the troops, and the command structure including Hitler? Hitler said if he had known the Soviets had the T-34 he would never have attacked. Hitler blamed the failure of Barbarossa and subsequent attack plans failures on lack of Intelligence. In other words he did not know enough about the plans of the enemy. That is supported by the numerous failures of German Intelligence through the war. Operation Mincemeat where an alcoholic corpse is dressed up as a Royal Marine Commando Who happens to have detailed plans for the next phase of the war? It never occurred to the Nazi’s to wonder if Enigma might be compromised.

Time and time again the Nazi’s racial beliefs clouded their thinking. Anything devised in the mind of a German could never be understood by anyone else.

The German planning for Barbarossa started in the fall of 1940 days after they realized that England would not be invaded.

Hitler outlined his plans to wipe out Russia in Mein Kampf. That was 1925.

Hitler was not the fall guy. He wasn’t duped. He was a bad guy with demonstrably wrong ideals and barbaric intentions. Stalin was not a nice guy. But he did not start the war. That was Germany, Japan, and Italy.

 

[Litwin]

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

this is well-known information , but i am 100% sure that USA´d win the all 3 wars anyway, with this scenario much faster
"
Allied divisions to Scandinavia to fight the Russians on behalf of the Finns. Indeed, during much of this period Allied hostility seems to have been far greater towards the Soviets than towards Germany, despite the nominal state of war against the latter, with French sentiments being particularly strong. As one British elected official remarked, “One has the impression that France is at war with Russia and merely on very unfriendly terms with Germany.”

The Allies intended to use Polish exile forces in their ground combat against the Soviets,..."

It’s not well known in the USA, as evident by Savannahman’s uninformed post. Most Americas have little understanding of the totality of WWII. They know of America’s involvement and have romanticized it as The Good War fought by the Greatest Generation. Yeah...it’s bull shit.

Few Americans know the Allies intended a mass bombing mission on Stalin’s oil field. Had this happened, who knows what would have resulted?

I do find it hard to believe Koba and Hitler could have gotten along. Hitler wanted to conquer western Russia and repopulate it with Germans. Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. Not likely they would have been allies for long.

I have a question. Perhaps you can help me. How exactly was the plan to bomb Russia part of the proof that Russia was responsible for World War II? I only ask because this thread was about how the Russians were responsible for the war.

does "Operation Pike (Operation Pike - Wikipedia) " indicate that USA/UK/France saw koba & his empire as a war -starter and aggressor in 30s ?
"Planning began shortly after the Soviet invasion of Poland in September 1939 and gained momentum after Stalin launched the Winter War against Finland in November 1939. The plan included the seizure of northern Norway and Sweden and an advance into Finland, to confront Soviet troops and naval forces in the Baltic Sea."
+

Operation Unthinkable - Wikipedia

 

[gipper]

Yes. It is obvious that Stalin intended to invade Europe, with the intention to conquer all of it. Imagine the pickle that would have caused his buddy in Washington, who was surrounded by Stalinist spies.

As discussed in another thread, the allies planned to bomb Stalin’s oil fields, but Barbarossa stopped it.

Some claim Hitler found out about Uncle Joe’s offensive plan, and beat him to punch by just a few days.

Proof the Russians were incapable of fighting a defensive war, is the vast numbers of Red Army troops killed and captured by the Germans in the early days. It is amazing the USSR could overcome the lose of much of their army, and ultimately defeat the Wehrmacht.

There were no Allies. There was England. That is all. They did not hav e planes that could reach the oil fields in Russia. They did not have anywhere to launch from. The British Lancaster did not enter service until 1942 and it did not have the range.

You guys really are experts of what isn’t.

LOL. You don’t know much.

Get informed before posting.
Operation Pike?

this is well-known information , but i am 100% sure that USA´d win the all 3 wars anyway, with this scenario much faster
"
Allied divisions to Scandinavia to fight the Russians on behalf of the Finns. Indeed, during much of this period Allied hostility seems to have been far greater towards the Soviets than towards Germany, despite the nominal state of war against the latter, with French sentiments being particularly strong. As one British elected official remarked, “One has the impression that France is at war with Russia and merely on very unfriendly terms with Germany.”

The Allies intended to use Polish exile forces in their ground combat against the Soviets,..."

It’s not well known in the USA, as evident by Savannahman’s uninformed post. Most Americas have little understanding of the totality of WWII. They know of America’s involvement and have romanticized it as The Good War fought by the Greatest Generation. Yeah...it’s bull shit.

Few Americans know the Allies intended a mass bombing mission on Stalin’s oil field. Had this happened, who knows what would have resulted?

I do find it hard to believe Koba and Hitler could have gotten along. Hitler wanted to conquer western Russia and repopulate it with Germans. Stalin wanted to conquer all of Europe. Not likely they would have been allies for long.

I have a question. Perhaps you can help me. How exactly was the plan to bomb Russia part of the proof that Russia was responsible for World War II? I only ask because this thread was about how the Russians were responsible for the war.

LOL. I’m surprised you would post here, after being exposed as uninformed.

Your question is funny. The answer is nothing.

 

[Litwin]

Serious researchers do not condemn a book they have not read, especially if the book has been published by a respected and established publishing house like the U.S. Naval Institute Press. By the way, here is what the U.S. Naval Institute says about Suvorov's book:

Bestselling author Victor Suvorov probes newly released Soviet documents and reevaluates existing material to analyze Stalin's strategic design to conquer Europe and the reasons behind his controversial support for Nazi Germany. A former Soviet army intelligence officer, the author explains that Stalin's strategy leading up to World War II grew from Vladimir Lenin's belief that if World War I did not ignite the worldwide Communist revolution, then a second world war would be needed to achieve it. Stalin saw Nazi Germany as the power that would fight and weaken capitalist countries so that Soviet armies could then sweep across Europe. Suvorov reveals how Stalin conspired with German leaders to bypass the Versailles Treaty, which forbade German rearmament, and secretly trained German engineers and officers and provided bases and factories for war. He also calls attention to the 1939 nonaggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany that allowed Hitler to proceed with his plans to invade Poland, fomenting war in Europe.​

Suvorov debunks the theory that Stalin was duped by Hitler and that the Soviet Union was a victim of Nazi aggression. Instead, he makes the case that Stalin neither feared Hitler nor mistakenly trusted him. Suvorov maintains that after Germany occupied Poland, defeated France, and started to prepare for an invasion of Great Britain, Hitler's intelligence services detected the Soviet Union's preparations for a major war against Germany. This detection, he argues, led to Germany's preemptive war plan and the launch of an invasion of the USSR. Stalin emerges from the pages of this book as a diabolical genius consumed by visions of a worldwide Communist revolution at any cost—a leader who wooed Hitler and Germany in his own effort to conquer the world. In contradicting traditional theories about Soviet planning, the book is certain to provoke debate among historians throughout the world. (The Chief Culprit)
​

I repeat. Nonsense.

Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia

First your Hero Suvorov has made no evidence available to anyone else. It is essentially take my word for it. It is contradicted by other evidence.

For example. The extensive preparations Stalin made for war are what forced Germany’s hand. If true. Why was the T-34 tank a surprise to the troops, and the command structure including Hitler? Hitler said if he had known the Soviets had the T-34 he would never have attacked. Hitler blamed the failure of Barbarossa and subsequent attack plans failures on lack of Intelligence. In other words he did not know enough about the plans of the enemy. That is supported by the numerous failures of German Intelligence through the war. Operation Mincemeat where an alcoholic corpse is dressed up as a Royal Marine Commando Who happens to have detailed plans for the next phase of the war? It never occurred to the Nazi’s to wonder if Enigma might be compromised.

Time and time again the Nazi’s racial beliefs clouded their thinking. Anything devised in the mind of a German could never be understood by anyone else.

The German planning for Barbarossa started in the fall of 1940 days after they realized that England would not be invaded.

Hitler outlined his plans to wipe out Russia in Mein Kampf. That was 1925.

Hitler was not the fall guy. He wasn’t duped. He was a bad guy with demonstrably wrong ideals and barbaric intentions. Stalin was not a nice guy. But he did not start the war. That was Germany, Japan, and Italy.

sir, what do you think about Marxist - Leninist consent of Permanent revolution - Wikipedia is it the ultimate declaration of war on all non - commie countries ?

 

[gipper]

Here is a great lengthy column on WWII. As the famous saying truthfully describes war...”the first casualty of war is truth.” WWII is no exception, it is the rule.

The truth is readily available, but one has to seek it out and dispense with all the lies told by the establishment. I would guess 99% of Americans have no knowledge of what is outlined in this column.

Here are interesting tidbits from the column.

American Pravda: Understanding World War II
To put things in plain language, during the years leading up to the Second World War, both Churchill and numerous other fellow British MPs were regularly receiving sizable financial stipends—cash bribes—from Jewish and Czech sources in exchange for promoting a policy of extreme hostility toward the German government and actually advocating war. The sums involved were quite considerable, with the Czech government alone probably making payments that amounted to tens of millions of dollars in present-day money to British elected officials, publishers, and journalists working to overturn the official peace policy of their existing government. A particularly notable instance occurred in early 1938 when Churchill suddenly lost all his accumulated wealth in a foolish gamble on the American stock-market, and was soon forced to put his beloved country estate up for sale to avoid personal bankruptcy, only to quickly be bailed out by a foreign Jewish millionaire intent upon promoting a war against Germany. Indeed, the early stages of Churchill’s involvement in this sordid behavior are recounted in an Irving chapter aptly entitled “The Hired Help.”

Ironically enough, German Intelligence learned of this massive bribery of British parliamentarians, and passed the information along to Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who was horrified to discover the corrupt motives of his fierce political opponents, but apparently remained too much of a gentlemen to have them arrested and prosecuted. I’m no expert in the British laws of that era, but for elected officials to do the bidding of foreigners on matters of war and peace in exchange for huge secret payments seems almost a textbook example of treason to me, and I think that Churchill’s timely execution would surely have saved tens of millions of lives.

My impression is that individuals of low personal character are those most likely to sell out the interests of their own country in exchange for large sums of foreign money, and as such usually constitute the natural targets of nefarious plotters and foreign spies. Churchill certainly seems to fall into this category, with rumors of massive personal corruption swirling around him from early in his political career. Later, he supplemented his income by engaging in widespread art-forgery, a fact that Roosevelt later discovered and probably used as a point of personal leverage against him. Also quite serious was Churchill’s constant state of drunkenness, with his inebriation being so widespread as to constitute clinical alcoholism. Indeed, Irving notes that in his private conversations FDR routinely referred to Churchill as “a drunken bum.”

Following his lightening six-week defeat of Poland, Hitler unsuccessfully sought to make peace with the Allies, and the war went into abeyance. Then in early 1940, Churchill persuaded his government to try strategically outflanking the Germans by preparing a large sea-borne invasion of neutral Norway; but Hitler discovered the plan and preempted the attack, with Churchill’s severe operational mistakes leading to a surprising defeat for the vastly superior British forces. During World War I, Churchill’s Gallipoli disaster had forced his resignation from the British Cabinet, but this time the friendly media helped ensure that all the blame for the somewhat similar debacle at Narvik was foisted upon Chamberlain, so it was the latter who was forced to resign, with Churchill then replacing him as prime minister. British naval officers were appalled that the primary architect of their humiliation had become its leading political beneficiary, but reality is what the media reports, and the British public never discovered this great irony.

Great Britain, in violation of all the ethics of civilized warfare that had theretofore been respected by our race, and in treacherous violation of solemnly assumed diplomatic covenants about “open cities”, had secretly carried out intensive bombing of such open cities in Germany for the express purpose of killing enough unarmed and defenceless men and women to force the German government reluctantly to retaliate and bomb British cities and thus kill enough helpless British men, women, and children to generate among Englishmen enthusiasm for the insane war to which their government had committed them.

It is impossible to imagine a governmental act more vile and more depraved than contriving death and suffering for its own people — for the very citizens whom it was exhorting to “loyalty” — and I suspect that an act of such infamous and savage treason would have nauseated even Genghis Khan or Hulagu or Tamerlane, Oriental barbarians universally reprobated for their insane blood-lust. History, so far as I recall, does not record that they ever butchered their own women and children to facilitate lying propaganda….In 1944 members of British Military Intelligence took it for granted that after the war Marshal Sir Arthur Harris would be hanged or shot for high treason against the British people…

Along with the laws prohibiting the bombing of cities, all nations had similarly agreed to ban the first use of poison gas, while stockpiling quantities for necessary retaliation. Since Germany was the world-leader in chemistry, the Nazis had produced the most lethal forms of new nerve gases, such as Tabun and Sarin, whose use might have easily resulted in major military victories on both the Eastern and Western fronts, but Hitler had scrupulously obeyed the international protocols that his nation had signed. However, late in the war during 1944 the relentless Allied bombardment of German cities led to the devastating retaliatory attacks of the V-1 flying bombs against London, and an outraged Churchill became adamant that German cities should be attacked with poison gas in counter-retaliation. If Churchill had gotten his way, many millions of British might soon have perished from German nerve gas counter-strikes. Around the same time, Churchill was also blocked in his proposal to bombard Germany with hundreds of thousands of deadly anthrax bombs, an operation that might have rendered much of Central and Western Europe uninhabitable for generations.

American Pravda: Understanding World War II

 

[mikegriffith1]

Serious researchers do not condemn a book they have not read, especially if the book has been published by a respected and established publishing house like the U.S. Naval Institute Press. By the way, here is what the U.S. Naval Institute says about Suvorov's book:

Bestselling author Victor Suvorov probes newly released Soviet documents and reevaluates existing material to analyze Stalin's strategic design to conquer Europe and the reasons behind his controversial support for Nazi Germany. A former Soviet army intelligence officer, the author explains that Stalin's strategy leading up to World War II grew from Vladimir Lenin's belief that if World War I did not ignite the worldwide Communist revolution, then a second world war would be needed to achieve it. Stalin saw Nazi Germany as the power that would fight and weaken capitalist countries so that Soviet armies could then sweep across Europe. Suvorov reveals how Stalin conspired with German leaders to bypass the Versailles Treaty, which forbade German rearmament, and secretly trained German engineers and officers and provided bases and factories for war. He also calls attention to the 1939 nonaggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany that allowed Hitler to proceed with his plans to invade Poland, fomenting war in Europe.​

Suvorov debunks the theory that Stalin was duped by Hitler and that the Soviet Union was a victim of Nazi aggression. Instead, he makes the case that Stalin neither feared Hitler nor mistakenly trusted him. Suvorov maintains that after Germany occupied Poland, defeated France, and started to prepare for an invasion of Great Britain, Hitler's intelligence services detected the Soviet Union's preparations for a major war against Germany. This detection, he argues, led to Germany's preemptive war plan and the launch of an invasion of the USSR. Stalin emerges from the pages of this book as a diabolical genius consumed by visions of a worldwide Communist revolution at any cost—a leader who wooed Hitler and Germany in his own effort to conquer the world. In contradicting traditional theories about Soviet planning, the book is certain to provoke debate among historians throughout the world. (The Chief Culprit)
​

I repeat. Nonsense.

Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia

First your Hero Suvorov has made no evidence available to anyone else. It is essentially take my word for it. It is contradicted by other evidence.

For example. The extensive preparations Stalin made for war are what forced Germany’s hand. If true. Why was the T-34 tank a surprise to the troops, and the command structure including Hitler? Hitler said if he had known the Soviets had the T-34 he would never have attacked. Hitler blamed the failure of Barbarossa and subsequent attack plans failures on lack of Intelligence. In other words he did not know enough about the plans of the enemy. That is supported by the numerous failures of German Intelligence through the war. Operation Mincemeat where an alcoholic corpse is dressed up as a Royal Marine Commando Who happens to have detailed plans for the next phase of the war? It never occurred to the Nazi’s to wonder if Enigma might be compromised.

Time and time again the Nazi’s racial beliefs clouded their thinking. Anything devised in the mind of a German could never be understood by anyone else.

The German planning for Barbarossa started in the fall of 1940 days after they realized that England would not be invaded.

Hitler outlined his plans to wipe out Russia in Mein Kampf. That was 1925.

Hitler was not the fall guy. He wasn’t duped. He was a bad guy with demonstrably wrong ideals and barbaric intentions. Stalin was not a nice guy. But he did not start the war. That was Germany, Japan, and Italy.

Sigh. . . . You haven't read the book, have you? Instead, you go running to . . . Wikipedia. Every argument you make is answered in the book. You might also read historian Mark Solonin's research, which supports Suvorov's:

http://www.solonin.org/en