Zone1 Who should receive reparations, and who should be excluded?

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

So now we have whites trying to determine eligibility for black reparations. Since whites did not do that for any other group, I suggest this thread be closed because it's a bait thread.

If there's anyone here who would recognize a bait thread.............................................

 

[fncceo]

This is where the argument for reparations falls into a logical chasm ...

If the basis for proposed reparations is American Slavery (distinct from all other forms of historical slavery) then it will fail to convince a majority of voters that anyone who isn't a victim of that slavery should receive reparations; just as no person who didn't participate in enslaving people should not be forced to pay those reparations.

But, if the argument is that Blacks are owed reparations because of historical social injustices, a more valid argument, then the same argument for reparations can be made for any other ethnic or minority group. In fact, women of all races have the superior claim to reparations in that they have been excluded from participation in employment, the right to vote, and even the right to own property for far longer than any other group in America.

 

[JoeB131]

So you think whites should be made the permanent slaves of blacks? Because forcing whites, who are guilty of nothing, to hand over a portion of their earnings to blacks, who weren’t slaves, is a form of that.

Wow... hysterics much? By your "logic", we are all "slaves" by paying taxes for programs that we don't personally benefit from. Not that we are paying for the benefits we get now, we are borrowing from future generations...

Obviously, if we have such a program, it will come from higher taxes on the wealthy, which is always a good idea, and they probably CAN be said to have benefited from the economic exploitation of black people over the last 400 years.

And what about the parameters I laid out in the OP? I mean you can’t honestly think that a white car mechanic whose family arrived here a generation ago and is now earning $40,000 should have a portion of his earnings confiscated to give to a black doctor, who is the son of a doctor (one of my black doctors is a 3rd generation doctor!) and is now earning $400,000, do you?

Well, the parameters you laid out in the OP were a bit silly. That doctor making $400,000 is paying FAR more in taxes than that Mechanic making $40K.

Here, let me help you out.

Just going by the Single Filing- The black doctor pays 24% of his income on $400,000 - or $96,000
The white mechanic (who must really suck at his job, because average pay for Mechanics is 37-70K according to Glassdoor) is paying 12% - or $4,800

So that black doctor is paying 20 times what the Mechanic is paying... he'd probably be paying himself. Or conversely, he is paying for programs that probably benefit that Mechanic more then he is getting.

What about black children whose parents went college, and even grad school, via affirmative action, and thus they grew up in middle class comfort? These next generation kids have benefited from the pro-black favoritism in admissions as far back as the 70s.

When you delve deeper, this whole reparations thing would be a mess to figure out.

No, actually, it wouldn't. We've already done this, when we paid reparations to Japanese-Americans who were incarcerated during WWII. Each Japanese-American who was locked up in a camp received $20,000. It didn't matter if they were one of the people who was only held for a year, or the ones who were locked up for the duration of the war. It didn't matter if they were at one of the nicer camps or one of the awful ones. it didn't matter if they were economically devastated or did okay for themselves. Every last one of them got $20,000. Actor George Takai donated his to charity. $20,000 in 1988 was not a life-changing amount no matter what tax bracket you were in. It was the acknowledgement that the government did wrong that was important.

So let's say we give every African American a payment of $20,000 and a formal apology for slavery and everything else. Seems reasonable. It's not the amount of money that really is the issue, it's the acknowledgement that the country did these people wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

To be fair, women of every race have been more excluded from the workforce than any other minority. Especially heinous in that women aren't even a minority, just economically and socially subjugated to second-class status for all but a infinitesimal fraction of human history.

I think the difference is that once you got past the notion of women in the workplace, which actually did have very big economic implications for everyone, people just considered it as normal and didn't give it much thought.

Blacks still encounter job discrimination.

That sounds great and a very logical argument except for one flaw.
The majority of blacks that graduate medical school and become doctors. Abandon the black community and move to white gated communities to set up their medical practice.

Some do, some don't. We could make graduation from medical school contingent on serving underserved communities for a certain number of years in exchange for scholarships.

 

[alexa]

What about black children whose parents went college, and even grad school, via affirmative action, and thus they grew up in middle class comfort? These next generation kids have benefited from the pro-black favoritism in admissions as far back as the 70s.

When you delve deeper, this whole reparations thing would be a mess to figure out.

I said

if they did not get such a good standard of education

and admitted I did not know what your education was like. Unless it is beyond awful these parents will make sure their children get a good education so even if they throw it away they wouldn't fit in.

 

[fncceo]

Blacks still encounter job discrimination.

And women in the workplace, of all races, still make less overall than their male counterparts.

 

[JoeB131]

And women in the workplace, of all races, still make less overall than their male counterparts.

True.

And most of them are fine with it. Because usually in a family, the husband's salary is considered the base and the wife's is considered supplemental.

So the ironic thing is that the 2008 Recession was called the "Man-Cession" because all these companies got rid of their higher paid men and kept their lower paid women.

 

[fncceo]

And most of them are fine with it.

You really believe that?

 

[JoeB131]

You really believe that?

Yeah, actually, I kind of do. As someone who writes resumes as a business, what I find is my male customers are almost always looking for a promotion or more pay, while my female customers are more likely to be looking for less stress or a better work/life balance. Post Covid, I find a lot of them want work-from-home jobs - even if they pay less - because they can spend more time with their kids and save on day-care.

 

[Lisa558]

So now we have whites trying to determine eligibility for black reparations. Since whites did not do that for any other group, I suggest this thread be closed because it's a bait thread.

Whites are the ones who will have to shoulder the burden. You think blacks should not only demand reparations, but decide who has to pay for it? Fat chance.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Any person who was forced to work without recompense deserves reparations.

Those who have led their life already priviledged via Affirmative Action do not.

AA was SUPPOSED to act as that recompense, and as an acknowledgement of previous wrongs. Decades later, and after three generations of failing to take advantages of these advantages that they DO have, race hustlers have turned to strong-armed tactics because they would rather get something for nothing than put out the effort necessary to improve themselves.

 

[TheParser]

There should be reparations for no group, especially not for group X.

It would be a different matter, of course, if group X had been an exemplary group of people who worked hard, showed good manners in public, and -- above all -- committed very little violent crime.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

There should be reparations for no group, especially not for group X.

It would be a different matter, of course, if group X had been an exemplary group of people who worked hard, showed good manners in public, and -- above all -- committed very little violent crime.

Racial shake down artists are like the toddler screaming for that candy bar in the grocery check-out line. Rewarding the black shakedown artists is like giving in to the toddler and buying the candy. All it does is teach them that it is bad behavior that gets them what they want.

Affirmative Action provides all black people with a road to success, but it only works if they TAKE it.

Far too many find it easier to use intimidation to get free stuff, instead.

 

[Lisa558]

Racial shake down artists are like the toddler screaming for that candy bar in the grocery check-out line. Rewarding the black shakedown artists is like giving in to the toddler and buying the candy. All it does is teach them that it is bad behavior that gets them what they want.

Affirmative Action provides all black people with a road to success, but it only works if they TAKE it.

Far too many find it easier to use intimidation to get free stuff, instead.

I agree. I don’t think blacks should get ANY reparations (except those 70+ who lived in Jim Crow states).

The discussion was really to inject a dose of reality into the whole reparations demands. In what world, for example, would it be fair for the White high school educated guy working the counter at the mechanic’s shop have to turn a portion of his earnings over to the black doctor, whose father was also a black doctor, and who went to prep school and the Ivy League?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Opinion are like..... noses.....everyone has one.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Opinion are like..... noses.....everyone has one.

And they all smell.

 

[AZrailwhale]

And women in the workplace, of all races, still make less overall than their male counterparts.

And that’s mostly because of women’s work habits. Women typically take more time off and refuse more work than men. I spent a career working at a union TELCO. Women made the same hourly wage as men, but in almost all cases earned less yearly. That’s because women generally refused to work the same levels of overtime as men. Even when overtime was mandatory, women would file union grievances to get out of it claiming family responsibilities or excess fatigue from twelve plus hour days for weeks and months on end. Management would give in to them rather than face an EEO complaint.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Opinion are like..... noses.....everyone has one.

I certainly picked mine!





Ummm, opinions that is.

 

[JoeB131]

Any person who was forced to work without recompense deserves reparations.

Those who have led their life already priviledged via Affirmative Action do not.

AA was SUPPOSED to act as that recompense, and as an acknowledgement of previous wrongs. Decades later, and after three generations of failing to take advantages of these advantages that they DO have, race hustlers have turned to strong-armed tactics because they would rather get something for nothing than put out the effort necessary to improve themselves.

Affirmative Action has benefited white women more than black people.

It really doesn't make up for the inherent advantages of the good old boy system. I've known one black person who had her job because of AA who was unqualified. I've known a couple dozen white people who had jobs because of family or friendship connections. And that's today, in my adult lifetime of about 42 years.

The discussion was really to inject a dose of reality into the whole reparations demands. In what world, for example, would it be fair for the White high school educated guy working the counter at the mechanic’s shop have to turn a portion of his earnings over to the black doctor, whose father was also a black doctor, and who went to prep school and the Ivy League?

Uh, the black doctor pays $96,000 a year in income taxes. The Mechanic pays $4800 a year in income taxes. The Mechanic is not the one losing in this situation.

 

[JoeB131]

Whites are the ones who will have to shoulder the burden. You think blacks should not only demand reparations, but decide who has to pay for it? Fat chance.

Actually RICH people will bear the burden. I really don't have a problem with that.

Let's just skip the next Middle East War and pay reparations... given that black folks are the ones who end up fighting them instead of the rich people and Zionists who instigate them.