Zone1 Who created all things?

[onefour1]

I understand the LDS doctrine, but it doesn't agree with Scripture.

To me the doctrine fits perfectly with scripture. So, for you to say it doesn't agree with scripture comes down to how you personally interpret scripture compared to how I interpret scripture.

 

[BS Filter]

To me the doctrine fits perfectly with scripture. So, for you to say it doesn't agree with scripture comes down to how you personally interpret scripture compared to how I interpret scripture.

then you don"understand Scripture. Good luck.

 

[onefour1]

then you don"understand Scripture. Good luck.

Again, that is your personal opinion. My opinion is that you are not understanding scripture.

 

[BS Filter]

Again, that is your personal opinion. My opinion is that you are not understanding scripture.

Of course.

 

[Meriweather]

You can't see how illogical and preposterous the bible verse is. Jesus is also "god" AND the "father". That means that he is talking about two separate entities and needs the father to draw people to him. There can be no other explanation and this is why it took 300 years for the Catholics to realize that people were treating Jesus as only the son, a lesser god than the father because he said he needed the father (the real God) to draw people to him.

In any event, if people need the "father" to draw people that means the people cannot do that themselves. Your religion is completely illogical and irrational.

It is a mistake to think God and man are alike or comparable. Your argument only works if God is man. It's like comparing a human being to a giraffe. I am comfortable knowing God is not like me. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is One, working together. Everyone agrees that is not how it works with individual humans. The Father is Creator, and it is by his Word, through the power of the Holy Spirit, that creation takes place.

Jesus has two natures: He is fully divine and he is fully human. This does not make him a "lesser" anything. It is who he is.

The Father, drawing people to Jesus, does not mean people cannot do that themselves, for scripture also teaches, Knock and it shall be opened to you; seek and you will find. Another passage to keep in mind is Jesus saying, "No one comes to the Father except through me." God is One, and scripture notes how Father, Son, and Holy Spirit work as One.

 

[Meriweather]

I did.

No.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

It is a mistake to think God and man are alike or comparable. Your argument only works if God is man. It's like comparing a human being to a giraffe. I am comfortable knowing God is not like me. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is One, working together. Everyone agrees that is not how it works with individual humans. The Father is Creator, and it is by his Word, through the power of the Holy Spirit, that creation takes place.

Jesus has two natures: He is fully divine and he is fully human. This does not make him a "lesser" anything. It is who he is.

The Father, drawing people to Jesus, does not mean people cannot do that themselves, for scripture also teaches, Knock and it shall be opened to you; seek and you will find. Another passage to keep in mind is Jesus saying, "No one comes to the Father except through me." God is One, and scripture notes how Father, Son, and Holy Spirit work as One.

I see you are using a contradictory verse to get out of the dilemma of Jesus saying ONLY the Father (who is himself) can draw people to him. You are also doing a switcheroo by saying that Jesus is part of the trinity as the son but not less than God himself and this is not what Catholicism teaches or what Jesus alleged he was when he supposedly said "I and the father are one" Now you are trying to say he wasn't and that he was a son and separate.

 

[Meriweather]

I see you are using a contradictory verse to get out of the dilemma of Jesus saying ONLY the Father (who is himself) can draw people to him. You are also doing a switcheroo by saying that Jesus is part of the trinity as the son but not less than God himself and this is not what Catholicism teaches or what Jesus alleged he was when he supposedly said "I and the father are one" Now you are trying to say he wasn't and that he was a son and separate.

Sigh. You see nothing. And, no, I am not "trying" to say what you think I said. You mix up what I say quite a lot, you know.

I could not care less that you have no belief in God. What I do give a care to is your complete lack of understanding of why people of faith do believe. You dismiss it (and us) with a "You were duped." Or, "You were frightened/scared." Or, "It comforts you." It's funny how you try to disprove God by asserting people of faith are simply duped, frightened, or in need of comfort. The icing on the cake is is what you seem to regard as your oh, so clever twisting of scripture--and that twisting falls flat on its face. Attempting to twist what one doesn't understand to begin with always results in failure.

If you want to explain why you don't believe, that would be interesting. Telling us why you think we believe is pure twaddle on your part. Perhaps skip past that gibberish and stick with why atheism works for you.

 

[cnm]

No strawman at all. I've yet to find an atheist here who hasn't argued against the mainstream science. Would you like to be the first?

Mainstream science presents the current best explanations for things. No one, except possibly you, expects all current explanations to remain valid. They may do, but experience shows us new evidence begets new explanations.

That you wish to argue nature can be explained by 'gawd, he done it' merely reinforces your fear of the unknown.

 

[cnm]

The founders of communism saw it the exact same way which is why they abolished religion.

Remember to check under your bed to make sure the dust bunnies don't have companions.

That's nice. I'm glad you were able to get that off of your chest.

Did you too find the Book nearly as boring as the Book?

 

[Meriweather]

That you wish to argue nature can be explained by 'gawd, he done it' merely reinforces your fear of the unknown.

What fear of the unknown? It seems atheists often cite "fear of the unknown". What is it that atheists fear about the unknown? As an educator, I find the unknown interesting--a captivating exploration. How can I help atheists get over their fear of the unknown?

 

[cnm]

But Christianity and other religions still exist there.

In NZ, a politician promoting their religion is dead in the water. The various Christian loony parties can't pass the minimum 5% of the vote to be assigned party seats.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Like I said, your "translators" just substituted words instead of actually translating the original texts. They couldn't because they can't read the originals. Jesus created all things = God created all things. You have to just change words to avoid that one. Jesus sits at God's right hand and receives worship. Again, you have to change words.

habit:

That's false. Jesus didn't create anything. Only Jehovah, the Father of Jesus, has the ability to create. Scripture says Jesus himself is a created being.

"{7} just as you learned it from Epaphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf {15} He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:7 and 15 -- English Standard Version)


"{7} As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; {15} Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"
(Colossians 1:7 and 15 -- King James Bible)


"{7} That is what you have learned from our beloved fellow slave Epʹa·phras, who is a faithful minister of the Christ on our behalf. {15} He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;" (Colossians 1:7 and 15 -- New World Translation by Jehovah's Witnesses)

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=colossians+1&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fbible%3Fsort%3Drel%26q%3Dcolossians%25201

I quoted verse 7 so that you could see the subject of verse 15 is none other than Jesus Christ. A created being is incapable of creating.




Alter2Ego

 

[cnm]

What fear of the unknown?

The fear of saying 'I don't know'. Theists have it.

 

[cnm]

A created being is incapable of creating.

So in the Christian paradigm, humans can't create?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Jesus has a God= no worship--God does not have a God.

Like I said, your "translators" just substituted words instead of actually translating the original texts. They couldn't because they can't read the originals. Jesus created all things = God created all things. You have to just change words to avoid that one. Jesus sits at God's right hand and receives worship. Again, you have to change words.

hadit:

Wrong again. I quoted from two different Trinitarian Bible translations at Post 373 (English Standard Version and King James Version), after which I quoted last from the New World Translation. The King James Bible went so far as to refer to Jesus Christ as a creature aka a created being. As all reading this thread can see, the translation by Jehovah's Witnesses is saying the exact same thing as the two Trinitarian Bibles.

Weblink to Post 373

Zone1 Post in thread 'Who created all things?'

Jun 2, 2025

Like I said, your "translators" just substituted words instead of actually translating the original texts. They couldn't because they can't read the originals. Jesus created all things = God created all things. You have to just change words to avoid that one. Jesus sits at God's right hand and receives worship. Again, you have to change words.

habit:

That's false. Jesus didn't create anything. Only Jehovah, the Father of Jesus, has the ability to create. Scripture says Jesus himself is a created being.

"{7} just as you learned it from Epaphras our...

• Alter2Ego

Alter2Ego

 

[cnm]

The Hebrew word translated Possessed at Prov 8:22 means created-Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation. So yes he is created, That is Why-HE=Jehovah created it all.

If Jehovah didn't create itself, how can it have created all? Assuming for the purpose of discussion that Jehovah isn't just the creation of paranoia and wishful thinking.

 

[cnm]

Thats not creation, its starting with a seed.

So humans cannot create life.

TIL

 

[Meriweather]

The fear of saying 'I don't know'. Theists have it.

No, we don't have fear--particularly that one. This tells me it is a fear you have that you project onto others. So....Why, your fear?

 

[cnm]

FYI: Almighty God is not "something." He is someone.

Is she part of everything/all?