Zone1 Who created all things?

It's more like your biases have blinded you from reality. I doubt that is a one off situation for you. I can hardly wait for you to experience all of the predictable surprises from following failed behaviors.
You are flailing and failing again and I detect your upset at my pushback and facts that destroy the talking points given to you by the Church fathers as you inject the famous fear card of my nonbeliefs leading me to eternal damnation upon death. As I said this is a mafiosi tactic of "Believe what I say or else" and even more insidious because you invoke an unseen God using an OT and NT where there is zero proof that any god inspired it. At least people can see the horror that the mafia will inflict on them if they don't believe the apostle of the mafia kingpin.
 
You are flailing and failing again and I detect your upset at my pushback and facts that destroy the talking points given to you by the Church fathers as you inject the famous fear card of my nonbeliefs leading me to eternal damnation upon death. As I said this is a mafiosi tactic of "Believe what I say or else" and even more insidious because you invoke an unseen God using an OT and NT where there is zero proof that any god inspired it. At least people can see the horror that the mafia will inflict on them if they don't believe the apostle of the mafia kingpin.
You misspelled winning.
 
"Believe what I say or else" and even more insidious because you invoke an unseen God using an OT and NT where there is zero proof that any god inspired it. At least people can see the horror that the mafia will inflict on them if they don't believe the apostle of the mafia kingpin.
The founders of communism saw it the exact same way which is why they abolished religion.
 
The founders of communism saw it the exact same way which is why they abolished religion.
Secular countries such as Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, and New Zealand are the happiest countries on earth with strong moral values. They wouldn't think of mass murder and your constant inclusion of Communism is annoying because they didn't commit atrocities in the name of their political beliefs and as we see other countries with similar SECULAR leanings are very peaceful, happy, and loving so your theory is garbage.
 
Secular countries such as Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, and New Zealand are the happiest countries on earth with strong moral values. They wouldn't think of mass murder and your constant inclusion of Communism is annoying because they didn't commit atrocities in the name of their political beliefs and as we see other countries with similar SECULAR leanings are very peaceful, happy, and loving so your theory is garbage.
They didn't endorse abolishing religion like you do and the atheistic communist regimes of the 20th century did.
 
They didn't endorse abolishing religion like you do and the atheistic communist regimes of the 20th century did.
Irrelevant. That is not the issue. They have effectively abolished it without an announcement on CNN.
 
Irrelevant. That is not the issue. They have effectively abolished it without an announcement on CNN.
It's not irrelevant. You are an extremist like the atheistic communist regimes of the 20th century were extremists. You are just as unhinged as they were towards religion. Your bias is 100% relevant to these discussions. It skews every opinion of yours.
 
You have as much contempt and anger at nonbelievers as I do for those who are duped...
No, I don't. Quite the opposite. You either keep forgetting or choose to ignore I grew up and married within a group of atheists. I also took note of Bible verses such as Jesus saying no one comes to him unless the Father draws him; and that faith is a gift from God. I don't know what kind of family/community in which you grew up, but mine has been one of acceptance and understanding. If some are not given the gift of faith; if the Father does not draw all to Jesus, I trust his reasons are just, loving, and merciful.
 
Irrelevant. That is not the issue. They have effectively abolished it without an announcement on CNN.
You may wish to re-check the percentages of Christians and religious belief in all the countries you named as secular....
 
Are you saying that God the Father and Jesus have physical sex?
I believe that in heaven, if you have been sealed to an eternal spouse and have obtained the highest degree in heaven, you will retain the power to procreate. Because God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have obtained the highest degree in heaven, yes they retain the power to procreate. However, just as on this earth, it is only lawful to have intercourse with your eternal spouse to procreate. Because of this, I do not believe that God the Father had sex with Mary. I believe that God artificially inseminated Mary with his seed. Thus she was still a virgin who had the Son of God as a child. However, in heaven, God does procreate and all who are on this earth are the spirit offspring of the Father.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
I believe that in heaven, if you have been sealed to an eternal spouse and have obtained the highest degree in heaven, you will retain the power to procreate. Because God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have obtained the highest degree in heaven, yes they retain the power to procreate. However, just as on this earth, it is only lawful to have intercourse with your eternal spouse to procreate. Because of this, I do not believe that God the Father had sex with Mary. I believe that God artificially inseminated Mary with his seed. Thus she was still a virgin who had the Son of God as a child. However, in heaven, God does procreate and all who are on this earth are the spirit offspring of the Father.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Well, your beliefs are LDS doctrine, that's for sure. You are twisting Scripture. Spiritual birth isn't the same as physical birth. Are you born again in the way that Jesus taught in John 3?
 
No, I don't. Quite the opposite. You either keep forgetting or choose to ignore I grew up and married within a group of atheists. I also took note of Bible verses such as Jesus saying no one comes to him unless the Father draws him; and that faith is a gift from God. I don't know what kind of family/community in which you grew up, but mine has been one of acceptance and understanding. If some are not given the gift of faith; if the Father does not draw all to Jesus, I trust his reasons are just, loving, and merciful.
You can't see how illogical and preposterous the bible verse is. Jesus is also "god" AND the "father". That means that he is talking about two separate entities and needs the father to draw people to him. There can be no other explanation and this is why it took 300 years for the Catholics to realize that people were treating Jesus as only the son, a lesser god than the father because he said he needed the father (the real God) to draw people to him.

In any event, if people need the "father" to draw people that means the people cannot do that themselves. Your religion is completely illogical and irrational.
 
Well, your beliefs are LDS doctrine, that's for sure. You are twisting Scripture. Spiritual birth isn't the same as physical birth. Are you born again in the way that Jesus taught in John 3?
I do believe that one must spiritually have a change of heart and be converted to believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost and the gospel. This I believe is being born again of the spirit here on this earth to believe in God and his gospel. But don't confuse this with how we came to be what we are. I believe that in the eternities, there is a part of mankind that is coeternal with God. It is known as our intelligences. I believe that God took our self-existing intelligences and through the process of procreation combined our intelligences with eternal spirit matter to form our spirits. In this way we are the literal offspring of God and his very children. Christ was the firstborn of all the spirit children of God the Father. The rest of us are his spirit brothers and sisters. Because our intelligences are self-existing and have always existed, God could not create them. Thus God could not create them to be perfect. For us to progress and become more perfect, God gives us this mortal experience so that we can experience good and evil and learn to choose good over evil. This must be done under our personal free will in order that we, of our own free will and choice, choose to become good beings in and of ourselves. If God were to use force to make us be good beings, then we would not truly be good beings in and of ourselves. Because of our imperfect self-existing intelligences, God needed a means to allow us to receive forgiveness for our short comings. Thus the atoning sacrifice of our Savior. This allows us to overcome our mistakes as we work toward becoming more Christ like. While on this earth, we are given physical mortal bodies. The reason we are given physical bodies is so that we can receive greater joy. There is something to being connected to elements that brings our spirits greater joy. For this reason God grants all of us immortality through the resurrection of the dead. In our mortal bodies, God has made it so that we can procreate and experience the joy of family and relationships. God can make these relationships eternal if we learn to follow his plan of happiness.

You accuse me of twisting scripture. Through modern day prophets, God has revealed more of his will concerning us here on this earth. Today we have additional scripture that has revealed more about God and his plan for his children. Here are some verses that have been revealed teaching me the things that I am telling you:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abraham 3

Moses 3:4-7
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints our canon of scripture consists of:

Bible Old Testament New Testament

Book of Mormon

Doctrine and Covenants

Pearl of Great Price
 
I do believe that one must spiritually have a change of heart and be converted to believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost and the gospel. This I believe is being born again of the spirit here on this earth to believe in God and his gospel. But don't confuse this with how we came to be what we are. I believe that in the eternities, there is a part of mankind that is coeternal with God. It is known as our intelligences. I believe that God took our self-existing intelligences and through the process of procreation combined our intelligences with eternal spirit matter to form our spirits. In this way we are the literal offspring of God and his very children. Christ was the firstborn of all the spirit children of God the Father. The rest of us are his spirit brothers and sisters. Because our intelligences are self-existing and have always existed, God could not create them. Thus God could not create them to be perfect. For us to progress and become more perfect, God gives us this mortal experience so that we can experience good and evil and learn to choose good over evil. This must be done under our personal free will in order that we, of our own free will and choice, choose to become good beings in and of ourselves. If God were to use force to make us be good beings, then we would not truly be good beings in and of ourselves. Because of our imperfect self-existing intelligences, God needed a means to allow us to receive forgiveness for our short comings. Thus the atoning sacrifice of our Savior. This allows us to overcome our mistakes as we work toward becoming more Christ like. While on this earth, we are given physical mortal bodies. The reason we are given physical bodies is so that we can receive greater joy. There is something to being connected to elements that brings our spirits greater joy. For this reason God grants all of us immortality through the resurrection of the dead. In our mortal bodies, God has made it so that we can procreate and experience the joy of family and relationships. God can make these relationships eternal if we learn to follow his plan of happiness.

You accuse me of twisting scripture. Through modern day prophets, God has revealed more of his will concerning us here on this earth. Today we have additional scripture that has revealed more about God and his plan for his children. Here are some verses that have been revealed teaching me the things that I am telling you:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abraham 3

Moses 3:4-7
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints our canon of scripture consists of:

Bible Old Testament New Testament

Book of Mormon

Doctrine and Covenants

Pearl of Great Price
I understand the LDS doctrine, but it doesn't agree with Scripture.
 

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