Zone1 Who created all things?

[cnm]

No, we don't have fear--particularly that one.

Yes you do. All the time. 'Gawd dun it' is seen on these pages all the time.

 

[cnm]

That's false. Jesus didn't create anything. Only Jehovah, the Father of Jesus, has the ability to create. Scripture says Jesus himself is a created being.

So do parts of Jehovah have an inability to create or is Jesus not part of Jehovah?

It's all so confusing...

 

[Meriweather]

Yes you do. All the time. 'Gawd dun it' is seen on these pages all the time.

I'm here a lot. It is not here all the time, or even some of the time. Again...it seems that it is always (or at least often) atheists that bring up fear. What is it atheists fear?

 

[Alter2Ego]

The Hebrew word translated Possessed at Prov 8:22 means created-Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation. So yes he is created, That is Why-HE=Jehovah created it all.

Firstborn doesn't mean created. You've been lied to. Exodus 4:22 God says Israel is His Firstborn son. Explain that.

BS Filter:

I've got news for you. The word "born," in and of itself, means someone that was created or sired. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament, Jesus is repeatedly referred to as "begotten" (which is the past participle of beget). Below are the definitions of "born" and "beget" and " "begotten."


DEFINITION OF BORN:
"1. To be born is to be produced or brought into life."

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

webstersdictionary1828.com

DEFINITION OF BEGET:
"to be the father of:"
In the Bible it says that Adam begat Cain and Abel."

beget

1. to be the father of: 2. to cause: 3. to be the father of:

dictionary.cambridge.org

DEFINITION OF BEGOTTEN:
": brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

Firstborn​

In the patriarchal order, the firstborn son is the heir and inherits the leadership of the family upon the death of the father. This is often spoken of in the scriptures as birthright (Gen. 43:33). Under the law of Moses, the firstborn son was regarded as belonging to God, and special ordinances were provided for his redemption (Ex. 13:12–15; 22:29; Num. 3:45; Luke 2:22–23). The eldest son received a double portion of his father’s possessions (Deut. 21:17); and after his father’s death, he was responsible for the care of the mother and sisters. The male firstborn of animals also belonged to God. Clean animals were used for sacrifices, while unclean animals might be redeemed, sold, or put to death (Ex. 13:2–13; 34:19–20; Lev. 27:11–13, 26–27).

Jesus is the firstborn of the spirit children of our Heavenly Father, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, and the first to rise from the dead in the Resurrection, “that in all things he might have the preeminence” (Col. 1:13–18).

The faithful saints were made members of the Church of the Firstborn in eternity, since they receive through Jesus Christ the inheritance of the firstborn (D&C 93:21–22). Joseph, though not the firstborn of Jacob, received the inheritance as though he were the firstborn (1 Chr. 5:1–2), as also did Ephraim (Gen. 48; Jer. 31:9).

In matters of priesthood, in the Aaronic order, certain prerogatives descend upon the firstborn. For example, the right of presidency, to hold the keys of that priesthood, pertains to the firstborn in the family of Aaron (D&C 68:16–21).

onefour1

You might as well have saved yourself the effort at dancing around the fact that Jesus is a created being. Scripture makes it clear that he was literally the first thing that Jehovah God created, which is why he is referred to as the "firstborn of all creation" at Colossians 1:15.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15 -- World English Bible)


Alter2Ego

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Sigh. You see nothing. And, no, I am not "trying" to say what you think I said. You mix up what I say quite a lot, you know.

I could not care less that you have no belief in God. What I do give a care to is your complete lack of understanding of why people of faith do believe. You dismiss it (and us) with a "You were duped." Or, "You were frightened/scared." Or, "It comforts you." It's funny how you try to disprove God by asserting people of faith are simply duped, frightened, or in need of comfort. The icing on the cake is is what you seem to regard as your oh, so clever twisting of scripture--and that twisting falls flat on its face. Attempting to twist what one doesn't understand to begin with always results in failure.

If you want to explain why you don't believe, that would be interesting. Telling us why you think we believe is pure twaddle on your part. Perhaps skip past that gibberish and stick with why atheism works for you.

Duly noted you agree that your verse contradicts.

 

[BS Filter]

BS Filter:

I've got news for you. The word "born," in and of itself, means someone that was created or sired. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament, Jesus is repeatedly referred to as "begotten" (which is the past participle of beget). Below are the definitions of "born" and "beget" and " "begotten."


DEFINITION OF BORN:
"1. To be born is to be produced or brought into life."

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

webstersdictionary1828.com

DEFINITION OF BEGET:
"to be the father of:"
In the Bible it says that Adam begat Cain and Abel."

beget

1. to be the father of: 2. to cause: 3. to be the father of:

dictionary.cambridge.org

DEFINITION OF BEGOTTEN:
": brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Alter2Ego

BS Filter:

I've got news for you. The word "born," in and of itself, means someone that was created or sired. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament, Jesus is repeatedly referred to as "begotten" (which is the past participle of beget). Below are the definitions of "born" and "beget" and " "begotten."


DEFINITION OF BORN:
"1. To be born is to be produced or brought into life."

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Born

webstersdictionary1828.com

DEFINITION OF BEGET:
"to be the father of:"
In the Bible it says that Adam begat Cain and Abel."

beget

1. to be the father of: 2. to cause: 3. to be the father of:

dictionary.cambridge.org

DEFINITION OF BEGOTTEN:
": brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Alter2Ego

In the Bible, "Firstborn" refers to pre-eminence. Israel is called God's Firstborn. David is called Firstborn, yet he was the youngest son. Do some research on the Biblical definition of "Firstborn".

 

[Alter2Ego]

You didn't answer my question. Scripture says God calls Israel His Firstborn. Explain that.

It was his firstborn religion as his chosen ones. Any on Earth could join that religion( proselytes they were called from other nations)

Lie. The word "religion" isnt in the Scripture. What does the term "Firstborn" mean in Scripture?

BS Filter:

You asked kjw47 a question, and he gave you the correct answer. The word "religion" doesn't need to be in the scripture at Exodus chapter 4 where Jehovah gave Moses instructions about what should Moses should say to the Egyptian Pharoah who was enslaving the ancient Israelites. The implication is clearly stated within Jehovah's words to Moses. Notice below.

Exodus 4:22​

"You must say to Pharʹaoh, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Israel is my son, my firstborn."

Exodus 4:23​

"I say to you, Send my son away so that he may serve me. But if you refuse to send him away, I am going to kill your son, your firstborn.”’”


The words "that he [the nation of Israel] may serve me" is with reference to their worship of Jehovah (their religious practices as dictated by Jehovah). Israel was the only nation in this type of relationship with Jehovah at that time.

Deuteronomy 7:6​

"For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth." (Deuteronomy 7:6 -- American Standard Version)



This is confirmed by several independent sources not affiliated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Notice one of those sources below.

"In the symbolic sense Israel was God’s first born, being the only nation He has chosen to be His own. In Exodus 4:22-23 God was equating His relationship with Israel to Pharaoh’s relationship with his son. He told Moses to make this connection so Pharaoh could see how important Israel was to Him and to tie Pharaoh’s later refusal to let Israel go to the punishment God was going to inflict on him for this, he death of all the firstborn of Egypt including Pharaoh’s firstborn son."

Israel, God's First Born Son? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

Alter2Ego

 

[onefour1]

onefour1

You might as well have saved yourself the effort at dancing around the fact that Jesus is a created being. Scripture makes it clear that he was literally the first thing that Jehovah God created, which is why he is referred to as the "firstborn of all creation" at Colossians 1:15.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15 -- World English Bible)


Alter2Ego

After reading you reply, I am scratching my head and wondering if you even read what I posted and you are replying to. Jesus is the firstborn spirit child of God the Father. When God the Father created our spirits, Jesus Christ was his firstborn. Our spirits have existed from before the creation of the earth. So remind me again how I am dancing around the fact that Jesus is a created being? Many of your responses seem to presuppose false beliefs onto me.

 

[BS Filter]

BS Filter:

You asked kjw47 a question, and he gave you the correct answer. The word "religion" doesn't need to be in the scripture at Exodus chapter 4 where Jehovah gave Moses instructions about what should Moses should say to the Egyptian Pharoah who was enslaving the ancient Israelites. The implication is clearly stated within Jehovah's words to Moses. Notice below.

Exodus 4:22​

"You must say to Pharʹaoh, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Israel is my son, my firstborn."

Exodus 4:23​

"I say to you, Send my son away so that he may serve me. But if you refuse to send him away, I am going to kill your son, your firstborn.”’”


The words "that he [the nation of Israel] may serve me" is with reference to their worship of Jehovah (their religious practices as dictated by Jehovah). Israel was the only nation in this type of relationship with Jehovah at that time.

Deuteronomy 7:6​

"For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth." (Deuteronomy 7:6 -- American Standard Version)



This is confirmed by several independent sources not affiliated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Notice one of those sources below.

"In the symbolic sense Israel was God’s first born, being the only nation He has chosen to be His own. In Exodus 4:22-23 God was equating His relationship with Israel to Pharaoh’s relationship with his son. He told Moses to make this connection so Pharaoh could see how important Israel was to Him and to tie Pharaoh’s later refusal to let Israel go to the punishment God was going to inflict on him for this, he death of all the firstborn of Egypt including Pharaoh’s firstborn son."

Israel, God's First Born Son? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

Alter2Ego

Here, read this. Kjw47 is totally wrong on everything. He's a Jehovah's Witness.

Why is the firstborn so important in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Why is the firstborn so important in the Bible? What is the role of the firstborn in the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

This one explains the pre-eminence of Jesus.

What does it mean that Jesus is the “firstborn” over Creation? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus is the “firstborn” over Creation? Does Jesus being the firstborn / first-born mean that He was born?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Alter2Ego]

In the Bible, "Firstborn" refers to pre-eminence. Israel is called God's Firstborn. David is called Firstborn, yet he was the youngest son. Do some research on the Biblical definition of "Firstborn".

BS Filter:

At times it does. At other times, it is literal. I just provided you with scripture at Colossians 1:15 where Jesus is referred to as firstborn of all creation. You're now trying to play slick by claiming it refers to pre-eminence over other created beings, despite the fact at John 3:16, it clearly refers to Jesus as Jehovah's "only-begotten son."

John 3:16​

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Definition of BEGOTTEN:
"begotten

2 of 2

adjective​

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

See that? The definition of begotten refers to a created being who was brought into existence. Now, suppose you show those reading this thread where the word "begotten" means pre-eminence.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

Here, read this. Kjw47 is totally wrong on everything. He's a Jehovah's Witness.

Why is the firstborn so important in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Why is the firstborn so important in the Bible? What is the role of the firstborn in the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

BS Filter:

I don't click links unless the relevant portion from the source is quoted within the post from the other person.


BTW: kjw47 has been totally correct on everything. You, meanwhile, are the one who is consistently wrong.


Alter2Ego

 

[BS Filter]

BS Filter:

At times it does. At other times, it is literal. I just provided you with scripture at Colossians 1:15 where Jesus is referred to as firstborn of all creation. You're now trying to play slick by claiming it refers to pre-eminence over other created beings, despite the fact at John 3:16, it clearly refers to Jesus as Jehovah's "only-begotten son."

John 3:16​

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Definition of BEGOTTEN:
"begotten

2 of 2

adjective​

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

See that? The definition of begotten refers to a created being who was brought into existence. Now, suppose you show those reading this thread where the word "begotten" means pre-eminence.


Alter2Ego

Jesus is eternal. He was the firstborn male in the physical sense. However, the "firstborn" of creation" refers to his pre-eminence. Jesus is the Creator. Jesus is the IAM. Jesus is God Almighty. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last.

 

[Alter2Ego]

After reading you reply, I am scratching my head and wondering if you even read what I posted and you are replying to. Jesus is the firstborn spirit child of God the Father. When God the Father created our spirits, Jesus Christ was his firstborn. Our spirits have existed from before the creation of the earth. So remind me again how I am dancing around the fact that Jesus is a created being? Many of your responses seem to presuppose false beliefs onto me.

onefour1:

I read your post in which you are using the same lame argument as BS Filter, claiming that "firstborn" refers to pre-eminence despite the fact scripture throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) repeatedly refers to Jesus Christ as "begotten." Someone who was begotten is someone who was sired, literally born or created and did not exist before he/she was begotten.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

Jesus is eternal. He was the firstborn male in the physical sense. However, the "firstborn" of creation" refers to his pre-eminence. Jesus is the Creator. Jesus is the IAM. Jesus is God Almighty. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last.

BS Filter:

That's false. An eternal person cannot have a beginning and cannot have an end. Jesus literally died.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

So in the Christian paradigm, humans can't create?

cnm:

Even someone who isn't a Christian knows humans are incapable of creating. They might not own up to it, but that's a fact. Why? Because anything that humans invent is done with pre-existing materials that humans did not create.

Humans can only invent. They cannot create.


Alter2Ego

 

[BS Filter]

BS Filter:

That's false. An eternal person cannot have a beginning and cannot have an end. Jesus literally died.


Alter2Ego

Yes, Jesus died and He ressurected. Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus said He is IAm. Jesus said.."Before Abraham was, I Am.

 

[Alter2Ego]

BS Filter:

That's false. An eternal person cannot have a beginning and cannot have an end. Jesus literally died.


Alter2Ego

Yes, Jesus died and He ressurected. Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus said He is IAm. Jesus said.."Before Abraham was, I Am.

BS Filter:

According to you, God died and resurrected himself. Tell us more of your fairytale.

BTW: Be sure and provide scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, to prove your claim that Jesus is Jehovah.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

So do parts of Jehovah have an inability to create or is Jesus not part of Jehovah?

It's all so confusing...

cnm:

What are you talking about when you say "parts of." Jehovah is one God and doesn't have other parts. You need to take questions like that to the Trinitarians within this thread who insist there are three persons combined into a single god. Never mind that there are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support this false teaching.


Alter2Ego

 

[BS Filter]

BS Filter:

According to you, God died and resurrected himself. Tell us more of your fairytale.

BTW: Be sure and provide scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, to prove your claim that Jesus is Jehovah.


Alter2Ego

John 2:19. You might want to knock off the sarcastic arrogance, unless you're intent on embarrasing yourself.