Which Came First Creation Or Evolution?

[ding]

There are several ways to express The SLoT. I am surprised you don’t know that. Heat loss is one of them. It is what prevents perpetual motion. Keep demonstrating your ignorance.

There may be several ways to express the SLoT to YOU, but they ALL must conform to the equation I posted.

We went through this before, it prevents perpetual motion in MACHINES, not in nature.
Keep demonstrating your STUPIDITY.

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

 

[ding]

I’m not the one arguing against the leading cosmological model. You are.

Your fabrication isn't even a cosmological model. It is pure bullshit.

I think they win a nobel prize for it. What have you ever accomplished?

No nobel prize has ever been awarded for the inflation theory
Just keep on lying and make your God proud.

Not yet, but I think they will win one. What have you ever done?

Made a fool of you!

No, you didn't, but you have made a fool of yourself by arguing against Hawking and Vilenkin. And by showing you don't know the first thing you are talking about.

 

[edthecynic]

The heat death of the universe is a plausible ultimate fate of the universe in which the universe has evolved to a state of no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. Heat death does not imply any particular absolute temperature; it only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. In the language of physics, this is when the universe reaches thermodynamic equilibrium (maximum entropy).

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

The heat death of the universe violates the TLoT.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
There is no temperature at which all motion (kinetic energy) stops therefore there will never be a time when no work can be done because kinetic energy does work.
How many times do you have to be told the same thing before you stop lying in service to your God?????

 

[edthecynic]

There are several ways to express The SLoT. I am surprised you don’t know that. Heat loss is one of them. It is what prevents perpetual motion. Keep demonstrating your ignorance.

There may be several ways to express the SLoT to YOU, but they ALL must conform to the equation I posted.

We went through this before, it prevents perpetual motion in MACHINES, not in nature.
Keep demonstrating your STUPIDITY.

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

Well then perpetual motion exists in nature as no matter could exist if entropy could not equal zero.
You see there IS a reason the actual real scientific SLoT says entropy can equal zero, and your fake phony Creationist SLoT does not!!!

 

[ding]

The heat death of the universe violates the TLoT.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
There is no temperature at which all motion (kinetic energy) stops therefore there will never be a time when no work can be done because kinetic energy does work.
How many times do you have to be told the same thing before you stop lying in service to your God?????

Actually it doesn't. It is only mathematically impossible to reach absolute zero when restricted to finite time and resources. We are talking about infinity.

But regardless what we would see if the universe were infinite is a very cold place where the only activity was at the atomic level. This we do not see. You lose again.

 

[ding]

There are several ways to express The SLoT. I am surprised you don’t know that. Heat loss is one of them. It is what prevents perpetual motion. Keep demonstrating your ignorance.

There may be several ways to express the SLoT to YOU, but they ALL must conform to the equation I posted.

We went through this before, it prevents perpetual motion in MACHINES, not in nature.
Keep demonstrating your STUPIDITY.

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

Well then perpetual motion exists in nature as no matter could exist if entropy could not equal zero.
You see there IS a reason the actual real scientific SLoT says entropy can equal zero, and your fake phony Creationist SLoT does not!!!

Is the universe cooling down?

 

[edthecynic]

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium.

Entropy - Wikipedia

And there it is from your own source again, never decreases and NOT always increases as you and Creationists lie. Never decreases means "greater than OR EQUAL TO zero.

 

[ding]

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium.

Entropy - Wikipedia

And there it is from your own source again, never decreases and NOT always increases as you and Creationists lie. Never decreases means "greater than OR EQUAL TO zero.

Does heat flow from cooler objects to hotter objects?
Or does heat flow from hotter objects to cooler objects?

 

[edthecynic]

There may be several ways to express the SLoT to YOU, but they ALL must conform to the equation I posted.

We went through this before, it prevents perpetual motion in MACHINES, not in nature.
Keep demonstrating your STUPIDITY.

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

Well then perpetual motion exists in nature as no matter could exist if entropy could not equal zero.
You see there IS a reason the actual real scientific SLoT says entropy can equal zero, and your fake phony Creationist SLoT does not!!!

Is the universe cooling down?

Does matter exist?

 

[edthecynic]

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium.

Entropy - Wikipedia

And there it is from your own source again, never decreases and NOT always increases as you and Creationists lie. Never decreases means "greater than OR EQUAL TO zero.

Does heat flow from cooler objects to hotter objects?
Or does heat flow from hotter objects to cooler objects?

Does matter exist or are atoms nothing?

 

[ding]

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

Well then perpetual motion exists in nature as no matter could exist if entropy could not equal zero.
You see there IS a reason the actual real scientific SLoT says entropy can equal zero, and your fake phony Creationist SLoT does not!!!

Is the universe cooling down?

Does matter exist?

Yes, I already answered this. It was created ~14 billion years ago. Since that time it has expanded and cooled.

The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy.

• During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy.
• Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient.
• The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is.
• Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy.

Key Terms

• second law of thermodynamics: Every energy transfer or transformation increases the entropy of the universe since all energy transfers result in the loss of some usable energy.
• entropy: A measure of randomness and disorder in a system.

 

[ding]

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium.

Entropy - Wikipedia

And there it is from your own source again, never decreases and NOT always increases as you and Creationists lie. Never decreases means "greater than OR EQUAL TO zero.

Does heat flow from cooler objects to hotter objects?
Or does heat flow from hotter objects to cooler objects?

Does matter exist or are atoms nothing?

Yes, I already answered this. It was created ~14 billion years ago. Since that time it has expanded and cooled down.

The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy.

• During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy.
• Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient.
• The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is.
• Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy.

Key Terms

• second law of thermodynamics: Every energy transfer or transformation increases the entropy of the universe since all energy transfers result in the loss of some usable energy.
• entropy: A measure of randomness and disorder in a system.

As time approaches infinity the temperature of the universe will equalize because heat flows from hotter object to colder objects.

Thermal equilibrium does not imply any particular absolute temperature; it only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. In the language of physics, this is when the universe reaches thermodynamic equilibrium (maximum entropy).

This we do not see. Which means the universe has not existed forever.

 

[ding]

There are several ways to express The SLoT. I am surprised you don’t know that. Heat loss is one of them. It is what prevents perpetual motion. Keep demonstrating your ignorance.

There may be several ways to express the SLoT to YOU, but they ALL must conform to the equation I posted.

We went through this before, it prevents perpetual motion in MACHINES, not in nature.
Keep demonstrating your STUPIDITY.

You mean the stupidity of Hawking and Vilenkin?

Is the universe heating up or cooling down?

Quite name dropping.
Does matter exist?

Why? Because I have experts that I relied upon and you don't?

Yes, matter and energy exists. It was created ~14 billion years ago through a quantum process without violating any conservation laws.

Well then perpetual motion exists in nature as no matter could exist if entropy could not equal zero.
You see there IS a reason the actual real scientific SLoT says entropy can equal zero, and your fake phony Creationist SLoT does not!!!

As time approaches infinity the temperature of the universe will equalize because heat flows from hotter object to colder objects.

Thermal equilibrium does not imply any particular absolute temperature; it only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. In the language of physics, this is when the universe reaches thermodynamic equilibrium (maximum entropy).

This we do not see. Which means the universe has not existed forever.

 

[edthecynic]

The heat death of the universe violates the TLoT.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
There is no temperature at which all motion (kinetic energy) stops therefore there will never be a time when no work can be done because kinetic energy does work.
How many times do you have to be told the same thing before you stop lying in service to your God?????

Actually it doesn't. It is only mathematically impossible to reach absolute zero when restricted to finite time and resources. We are talking about infinity.

But regardless what we would see if the universe were infinite is a very cold place where the only activity was at the atomic level. This we do not see. You lose again.

From your own damn link:

Max Planck wrote that the phrase "entropy of the universe" has no meaning because it admits of no accurate definition.[23][24] More recently, Grandy writes: "It is rather presumptuous to speak of the entropy of a universe about which we still understand so little, and we wonder how one might define thermodynamic entropy for a universe and its major constituents that have never been in equilibrium in their entire existence."[25] According to Tisza: "If an isolated system is not in equilibrium, we cannot associate an entropy with it."[26] Buchdahl writes of "the entirely unjustifiable assumption that the universe can be treated as a closed thermodynamic system".[27] According to Gallavotti: "... there is no universally accepted notion of entropy for systems out of equilibrium, even when in a stationary state."[28]Discussing the question of entropy for non-equilibrium states in general, Lieb and Yngvason express their opinion as follows: "Despite the fact that most physicists believe in such a nonequilibrium entropy, it has so far proved impossible to define it in a clearly satisfactory way."[29] In Landsberg's opinion: "The third misconception is that thermodynamics, and in particular, the concept of entropy, can without further enquiry be applied to the whole universe. ... These questions have a certain fascination, but the answers are speculations, and lie beyond the scope of this book."[30]

A recent analysis of entropy states, "The entropy of a general gravitational field is still not known", and, "gravitational entropy is difficult to quantify". The analysis considers several possible assumptions that would be needed for estimates and suggests that the observable universe has more entropy than previously thought. This is because the analysis concludes that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor.[31] Lee Smolin goes further: "It has long been known that gravity is important for keeping the universe out of thermal equilibrium. Gravitationally bound systems have negative specific heat—that is, the velocities of their components increase when energy is removed. ... Such a system does not evolve toward a homogeneous equilibrium state. Instead it becomes increasingly structured and heterogeneous as it fragments into subsystems."[32]

 

[ding]

The heat death of the universe violates the TLoT.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
There is no temperature at which all motion (kinetic energy) stops therefore there will never be a time when no work can be done because kinetic energy does work.
How many times do you have to be told the same thing before you stop lying in service to your God?????

Actually it doesn't. It is only mathematically impossible to reach absolute zero when restricted to finite time and resources. We are talking about infinity.

But regardless what we would see if the universe were infinite is a very cold place where the only activity was at the atomic level. This we do not see. You lose again.

From your own damn link:

Max Planck wrote that the phrase "entropy of the universe" has no meaning because it admits of no accurate definition.[23][24] More recently, Grandy writes: "It is rather presumptuous to speak of the entropy of a universe about which we still understand so little, and we wonder how one might define thermodynamic entropy for a universe and its major constituents that have never been in equilibrium in their entire existence."[25] According to Tisza: "If an isolated system is not in equilibrium, we cannot associate an entropy with it."[26] Buchdahl writes of "the entirely unjustifiable assumption that the universe can be treated as a closed thermodynamic system".[27] According to Gallavotti: "... there is no universally accepted notion of entropy for systems out of equilibrium, even when in a stationary state."[28]Discussing the question of entropy for non-equilibrium states in general, Lieb and Yngvason express their opinion as follows: "Despite the fact that most physicists believe in such a nonequilibrium entropy, it has so far proved impossible to define it in a clearly satisfactory way."[29] In Landsberg's opinion: "The third misconception is that thermodynamics, and in particular, the concept of entropy, can without further enquiry be applied to the whole universe. ... These questions have a certain fascination, but the answers are speculations, and lie beyond the scope of this book."[30]

A recent analysis of entropy states, "The entropy of a general gravitational field is still not known", and, "gravitational entropy is difficult to quantify". The analysis considers several possible assumptions that would be needed for estimates and suggests that the observable universe has more entropy than previously thought. This is because the analysis concludes that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor.[31] Lee Smolin goes further: "It has long been known that gravity is important for keeping the universe out of thermal equilibrium. Gravitationally bound systems have negative specific heat—that is, the velocities of their components increase when energy is removed. ... Such a system does not evolve toward a homogeneous equilibrium state. Instead it becomes increasingly structured and heterogeneous as it fragments into subsystems."[32]

Max didn’t know about the cosmic background radiation, red shift, Friedman’s solution to Einstein’s field equations or inflation theory.

Hawking and Vilenkin and every other leading cosmologist do.

This discussion isn’t about gravitational entropy. This discussion is about heat and infinity. As time approaches infinity the universe will approach thermal equilibrium. This we do not see.

I win again.

 

[Likkmee]

We know from this one the laws of nature were already in place.

That's right the laws of NATURE, not God!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One in the same.

Then God is NOT supernatural and didn't create any religions.

No one said God created religions. He created existence. Supernatural is a construct of man.

Mother Nature is a SHE!

 

[ding]

For some odd reason the fact that the universe had a beginning drives militant atheists bat shit crazy.

 

[edthecynic]

This discussion isn’t about gravitational entropy. This discussion is about heat and infinity. As time approaches infinity the universe will approach thermal equilibrium. This we do not see.

I win again.

Again from YOUR own link:
Lee Smolin goes further: "It has long been known that gravity is important for keeping the universe out of thermal equilibrium. Gravitationally bound systems have negative specific heat—that is, the velocities of their components increase when energy is removed. ... Such a system does not evolve toward a homogeneous equilibrium state. Instead it becomes increasingly structured and heterogeneous as it fragments into subsystems."[32]

LOSER!!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

For some odd reason the fact that the universe had a beginning drives militant atheists bat shit crazy.

No, we are objecting to your obvious LIE that ENERGY had a beginning!!!!

You God of lies must be very proud of you.

 

[ding]

This discussion isn’t about gravitational entropy. This discussion is about heat and infinity. As time approaches infinity the universe will approach thermal equilibrium. This we do not see.

I win again.

Again from YOUR own link:
Lee Smolin goes further: "It has long been known that gravity is important for keeping the universe out of thermal equilibrium. Gravitationally bound systems have negative specific heat—that is, the velocities of their components increase when energy is removed. ... Such a system does not evolve toward a homogeneous equilibrium state. Instead it becomes increasingly structured and heterogeneous as it fragments into subsystems."[32]

LOSER!!!!!

You can cherry pick from that link until the cows come home. It doesn’t change the fact that cosmic background radiation, red shift, Friedman’s solution to Einstein’s field equations and every single cosmological model shows that 14 billion years ago all the matter and energy in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom began to expand and cool.