Where do moral laws come from?

[Iceweasel]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Where did you come up with all that? Did you form your own religion or cobble pieces together from others?

Laws come from man, they differ from state to state, country from country.

Arbitrary laws differ (i.e., positive law), and are more leftist in nature.

Law that we learn from revelation is universal. Reason and experience do not impose on us, which is what laws do that violate the natural law. Of course laws differ in different societies; some governments are more intrusive than others.

Law and morality do not mean the same thing. Morality from revelation is the most inconsistent it could be. In a society we cannot let law be determined by individual morality.

 

[rightwinger]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

 

[dblack]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

But that's not why they are illegal. These acts are illegal because they violate the rights of others.

 

[Boss]

When humans were primarily small family tribes of hunter gatherers they would routinely attempt kill anyone not known to them.

as we became more socialized that type of xenophobic violence actually would hurt the community rather than protect it so it slowly stopped and the attitude that killing for no reason was undesirable became prevalent

Except you're wrong about some things. There was no "community" just the tribe and the laws of nature. What intervened at some point to change the game was human spirituality. Once man became spiritually connected, he was able to conceptualize empathy and compassion. This enabled trust relationships rooted in the universal understanding of powers greater than self. THEN you had communities and civilizations.

 

[Skull Pilot]

When humans were primarily small family tribes of hunter gatherers they would routinely attempt kill anyone not known to them.

as we became more socialized that type of xenophobic violence actually would hurt the community rather than protect it so it slowly stopped and the attitude that killing for no reason was undesirable became prevalent

Except you're wrong about some things. There was no "community" just the tribe and the laws of nature. What intervened at some point to change the game was human spirituality. Once man became spiritually connected, he was able to conceptualize empathy and compassion. This enabled trust relationships rooted in the universal understanding of powers greater than self. THEN you had communities and civilizations.

I disagree. Once people stopped wandering and started settlements the tendency for xenophobic violence had to end because it was no longer possible to know every person in a settlement. It had nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with expediency

 

[Boss]

I disagree. Once people stopped wandering and started settlements the tendency for xenophobic violence had to end because it was no longer possible to know every person in a settlement. It had nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with expediency

There weren't any settlements. There were only tribes. The tribes were mostly family. You're jumping way ahead to a settlement... that's post-civilization. There is no evidence of any civilization existing without spirituality.

Now, neither of us knows for certain, the answer is elusive. But it's my theory that human spirituality must've preceded civilization or we would've found remnants of ancient civilizations devoid of spiritualism. And I can conjecture how this spiritual connection was something early man could use in forming trust relationships with others. Tribes suddenly grew into civilizations.

 

[rightwinger]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

But that's not why they are illegal. These acts are illegal because they violate the rights of others.

Isn't that what morality is?

Your interaction with others

 

[xband]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

 

[hobelim]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

Studies have show that social creatures, animals that never read a book or heard about God, develop a sense of fairness and unfairness and discourage the tendency towards behaviors that are perceived as unjust or greedy as a natural consequence of the cooperative nature demanded by creatures whose survival strategy is based on being in groups.

 

[xband]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

Studies have show that social creatures, animals that never read a book or heard about God, develop a sense of fairness and unfairness and discourage the tendency towards behaviors that are perceived as unjust or greedy as a natural consequence of the cooperative nature demanded by creatures whose survival strategy is based on being in groups.

I am beginning to comprehend what you wrote but have to read it at least ten more times before I agree or disagree.

 

[G.T.]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

you started a logical discussion with unsubstanciated claims. ughh

 

[xband]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

Studies have show that social creatures, animals that never read a book or heard about God, develop a sense of fairness and unfairness and discourage the tendency towards behaviors that are perceived as unjust or greedy as a natural consequence of the cooperative nature demanded by creatures whose survival strategy is based on being in groups.

I am beginning to comprehend what you wrote but have to read it at least ten more times before I agree or disagree.

I think you are saying there is honor among thieves.

 

[hobelim]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

Studies have show that social creatures, animals that never read a book or heard about God, develop a sense of fairness and unfairness and discourage the tendency towards behaviors that are perceived as unjust or greedy as a natural consequence of the cooperative nature demanded by creatures whose survival strategy is based on being in groups.

I am beginning to comprehend what you wrote but have to read it at least ten more times before I agree or disagree.

I think you are saying there is honor among thieves.

Yes, but whether among the religious, the unbelievers, or thieves, being in a group brings up the questions of morality and fairness among those that join whatever group.

Even when there is a supreme pack leader and no one questions his right to plunder out of fear, the subjects are all in the same boat and will squabble amongst themselves over the leftovers to get their fair share..

 

[rightwinger]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Morality stems in my inner psyche or Id as Freud called it. Freud described Id, Ego and Superego. I have a powerful superego that defeats ego which wants to do what id wants and id wants everything and anything.

Studies have show that social creatures, animals that never read a book or heard about God, develop a sense of fairness and unfairness and discourage the tendency towards behaviors that are perceived as unjust or greedy as a natural consequence of the cooperative nature demanded by creatures whose survival strategy is based on being in groups.

I am beginning to comprehend what you wrote but have to read it at least ten more times before I agree or disagree.

I think you are saying there is honor among thieves.

They have their own moral code that they enforce

 

[dblack]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

But that's not why they are illegal. These acts are illegal because they violate the rights of others.

Isn't that what morality is?

Your interaction with others

No.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I disagree. Once people stopped wandering and started settlements the tendency for xenophobic violence had to end because it was no longer possible to know every person in a settlement. It had nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with expediency

There weren't any settlements. There were only tribes. The tribes were mostly family. You're jumping way ahead to a settlement... that's post-civilization. There is no evidence of any civilization existing without spirituality.

Now, neither of us knows for certain, the answer is elusive. But it's my theory that human spirituality must've preceded civilization or we would've found remnants of ancient civilizations devoid of spiritualism. And I can conjecture how this spiritual connection was something early man could use in forming trust relationships with others. Tribes suddenly grew into civilizations.

I said once people stopped wandering and started settlements

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that

before that xenophobic violence was the norm

 

[BreezeWood]

.
cause and effect have a great deal of influence in the perception of morality, whether good or evil is the contentious dilemma.

 

[rightwinger]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

But that's not why they are illegal. These acts are illegal because they violate the rights of others.

Isn't that what morality is?

Your interaction with others

No.

What is the moral code of an individual by himself other than survival?

 

[bodecea]

Before space and time were created the laws of nature were already in place. The potential for all realities existed before space and time existed because those laws of nature were in place before space and time. Everything which has unfolded since space and time were created occurred because of the laws of nature. Moral Laws existed before beings that know and create existed. Moral Laws were waiting in time for beings that now and create to catch up to them, thus realizing its potential and fulfilling their role in progressing our conscience and consciousness. So where did the moral laws come from? They came from God who is existence itself; who s reality itself.

Very simple...the golden rule which can be found in just about every culture thru-out history.

 

[dblack]

You can not legislate morality!

Of course you can

Murder is not moral. We have laws against it
Stealing the property of others is not moral......We have laws against it
Assault and rape is not moral...We have laws against it

But that's not why they are illegal. These acts are illegal because they violate the rights of others.

Isn't that what morality is?

Your interaction with others

No.

What is the moral code of an individual by himself other than survival?

I dunno. What are you implying? You asked "Isn't that what morality is?" in response to my statement that the acts in question were illegal because they violated rights, not because they were immoral. To which I answer no, morality is different than rights. You threw in "Your interaction with others" for some reason, but that's not morality either.