CDZ Where Do Guns Used In Crimes Come From?

[320 Years of History]

• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003
  
• Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts -- One section of this analysis indicates that the legality of guns may not be a relevant factor.
  
• FFL NEWSLETTER
  
• Reducing Illegal Firearms Trafficking
  • As of July 1999, the National Crime Information Center database listed 2,341,023 stolen firearms (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1999)
• TRACING THE GUNS: THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL GUNS ON VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO
  • The largest out-of-state sources of Chicago’s illegal guns were Indiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin, which supplied 19 percent, 6.7 percent, and 3.6 percent of these crime guns, respectively. None of these states have laws that require background checks for purchasers who buy firearms at gun shows or on the Internet.
    
  • Although the majority of Chicago’s crime guns come from the other 49 states combined, between 2009 and 2013, just four local dealers supplied nearly 20 percent of the guns recovered at Chicago crime scenes. These stores – Chucks (Riverdale, IL), Midwest Sporting Goods (Lyons, IL), Shore Galleries (Lincolnwood, IL), and Westforth Sports, Inc. (Gary, IN)— are all within a short drive of Chicago and are the source of thousands of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago. By contrast, during that same time period, the average number of guns traced back to all other gun stores was three.
    
    Between 2009 and 2013, Midwest Gun in Lyons, Illinois, sold 659 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 333 (approximately 51 percent) of those firearms were recovered within three years of the original purchase at Midwest Gun. Chucks Gun Shop in Riverdale, Illinois, sold 1,516 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 529 (approximately 35 percent) of these guns were recovered within three years of purchase. Chucks alone accounts for a whopping eight percent of the total number of guns that were recovered and traced to crimes in Chicago in the last five years.

Some thoughts:

• People commonly note that gun sales/ownership have increased and gun crime has decreased. I have yet to see any of them establish the veracity of there being a causal link between those two observations. I can see as well as the next person that both events seem like they should be more than just circumstantially related, but I have yet to see anything showing the relationship is anything more than circumstantial.
• People commonly note that "such and such" gun regulation would not have stopped "this or that" murderer/shooter, inferring, in turn, that "no" shooter/murderer would ever be stopped by that regulation. What they never bother to point out is how many shooters that very same regulation would have stopped, and, in turn, how many people would be alive/uninjured today were the regulation under discussion implemented. They posit the quantity of lives saved and shooters deterred is zero, but they never produce anything showing that to be so. In contrast, consider Christopher Pittman. Were guns illegal and the child's parents law abiding in accordance with that law, just where would he have come by a shotgun? Just how does one argue that the 256 minor who shot someone in 2015 would have done so were the law abiding adults around them to not own guns?
  
  
  
  Can one say that the adults in those children's lives were stupid, insouciant, "whatever?" Sure, but that just indicates they had no business with a gun any more than did the children whom they allowed to get hold of them. It's a responsible adult's burden/duty to secure their deadly weapons, guns among others, so that children don't get hold of them. So tell me, just how, short of enacting gun possession prohibitions, are we to guard against the glibness of otherwise law abiding adults? After a child around them has injured or killed another person with the adult's gun, it's a bit too late, isn't it?
  
  
• People commonly state that making guns harder to get or in some cases outright illegal to possess won't stop shooters because the shooters will merely buy guns illegally. What they fail to address is that the greater the quantity there is of legal guns available and/or in circulation, the greater quantity of guns that exist to be illegally "procured" from legal owners/sellers.

What one observes then is that repeatedly, while gun rights advocates have some sort of response to all manners of things, they routinely do not directly address those things that actually matter in the discussion of any given proposal for abating or curtailing gun-related deaths/violence. When all else fails, they revert to a Constitutional and SCOTUS line of argument. Even there, however, they again do not address the fact that neither the Founders nor any SCOTUS jurist aimed to create a situation in which one's right to bear arms contributes to citizens' involuntary injury and death.

Progressive "thought": something bad happened somewhere, therefore everyone needs to give up a key fundamental right!

Progressives have an awful track record once they disarm their citizens, the body count is over 100,000,000 people murdered by Progressive gungrabbing Fascists

Rather than mocking a solution idea you don't like, you can offer an alternative solution approach of your own.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

None of these things have anything to do with straw purchases;
Straw purchases demonstrate the inanity of the idea that it is possible for a law to prevent people from breaking another law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

1. It will take years, maybe decades, but it will happen. After the assault weapon ban, murders by assault weapons fell dramatically.

This is a lie.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003
  
• Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts -- One section of this analysis indicates that the legality of guns may not be a relevant factor.
  
• FFL NEWSLETTER
  
• Reducing Illegal Firearms Trafficking
  • As of July 1999, the National Crime Information Center database listed 2,341,023 stolen firearms (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1999)
• TRACING THE GUNS: THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL GUNS ON VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO
  • The largest out-of-state sources of Chicago’s illegal guns were Indiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin, which supplied 19 percent, 6.7 percent, and 3.6 percent of these crime guns, respectively. None of these states have laws that require background checks for purchasers who buy firearms at gun shows or on the Internet.
    
  • Although the majority of Chicago’s crime guns come from the other 49 states combined, between 2009 and 2013, just four local dealers supplied nearly 20 percent of the guns recovered at Chicago crime scenes. These stores – Chucks (Riverdale, IL), Midwest Sporting Goods (Lyons, IL), Shore Galleries (Lincolnwood, IL), and Westforth Sports, Inc. (Gary, IN)— are all within a short drive of Chicago and are the source of thousands of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago. By contrast, during that same time period, the average number of guns traced back to all other gun stores was three.
    
    Between 2009 and 2013, Midwest Gun in Lyons, Illinois, sold 659 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 333 (approximately 51 percent) of those firearms were recovered within three years of the original purchase at Midwest Gun. Chucks Gun Shop in Riverdale, Illinois, sold 1,516 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 529 (approximately 35 percent) of these guns were recovered within three years of purchase. Chucks alone accounts for a whopping eight percent of the total number of guns that were recovered and traced to crimes in Chicago in the last five years.

Some thoughts:

• People commonly note that gun sales/ownership have increased and gun crime has decreased. I have yet to see any of them establish the veracity of there being a causal link between those two observations. I can see as well as the next person that both events seem like they should be more than just circumstantially related, but I have yet to see anything showing the relationship is anything more than circumstantial.
• People commonly note that "such and such" gun regulation would not have stopped "this or that" murderer/shooter, inferring, in turn, that "no" shooter/murderer would ever be stopped by that regulation. What they never bother to point out is how many shooters that very same regulation would have stopped, and, in turn, how many people would be alive/uninjured today were the regulation under discussion implemented. They posit the quantity of lives saved and shooters deterred is zero, but they never produce anything showing that to be so. In contrast, consider Christopher Pittman. Were guns illegal and the child's parents law abiding in accordance with that law, just where would he have come by a shotgun? Just how does one argue that the 256 minor who shot someone in 2015 would have done so were the law abiding adults around them to not own guns?
  
  
  
  Can one say that the adults in those children's lives were stupid, insouciant, "whatever?" Sure, but that just indicates they had no business with a gun any more than did the children whom they allowed to get hold of them. It's a responsible adult's burden/duty to secure their deadly weapons, guns among others, so that children don't get hold of them. So tell me, just how, short of enacting gun possession prohibitions, are we to guard against the glibness of otherwise law abiding adults? After a child around them has injured or killed another person with the adult's gun, it's a bit too late, isn't it?
  
  
• People commonly state that making guns harder to get or in some cases outright illegal to possess won't stop shooters because the shooters will merely buy guns illegally. What they fail to address is that the greater the quantity there is of legal guns available and/or in circulation, the greater quantity of guns that exist to be illegally "procured" from legal owners/sellers.

What one observes then is that repeatedly, while gun rights advocates have some sort of response to all manners of things, they routinely do not directly address those things that actually matter in the discussion of any given proposal for abating or curtailing gun-related deaths/violence. When all else fails, they revert to a Constitutional and SCOTUS line of argument. Even there, however, they again do not address the fact that neither the Founders nor any SCOTUS jurist aimed to create a situation in which one's right to bear arms contributes to citizens' involuntary injury and death.

Progressive "thought": something bad happened somewhere, therefore everyone needs to give up a key fundamental right!

Progressives have an awful track record once they disarm their citizens, the body count is over 100,000,000 people murdered by Progressive gungrabbing Fascists

Rather than mocking a solution idea you don't like, you can offer an alternative solution approach of your own.

Solution to what? Crime? What's the underlying problem you keep misidentifying? You thinks guns are the problem, and they're not

 

[M14 Shooter]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

Oh yeah, brother. 52K games, love the Grille 15. Been steadily picking up the Wn8. I offered Dodoma money to play my account for a month and get me into green territory, he laughed

 

[320 Years of History]

• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003
  
• Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts -- One section of this analysis indicates that the legality of guns may not be a relevant factor.
  
• FFL NEWSLETTER
  
• Reducing Illegal Firearms Trafficking
  • As of July 1999, the National Crime Information Center database listed 2,341,023 stolen firearms (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1999)
• TRACING THE GUNS: THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL GUNS ON VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO
  • The largest out-of-state sources of Chicago’s illegal guns were Indiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin, which supplied 19 percent, 6.7 percent, and 3.6 percent of these crime guns, respectively. None of these states have laws that require background checks for purchasers who buy firearms at gun shows or on the Internet.
    
  • Although the majority of Chicago’s crime guns come from the other 49 states combined, between 2009 and 2013, just four local dealers supplied nearly 20 percent of the guns recovered at Chicago crime scenes. These stores – Chucks (Riverdale, IL), Midwest Sporting Goods (Lyons, IL), Shore Galleries (Lincolnwood, IL), and Westforth Sports, Inc. (Gary, IN)— are all within a short drive of Chicago and are the source of thousands of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago. By contrast, during that same time period, the average number of guns traced back to all other gun stores was three.
    
    Between 2009 and 2013, Midwest Gun in Lyons, Illinois, sold 659 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 333 (approximately 51 percent) of those firearms were recovered within three years of the original purchase at Midwest Gun. Chucks Gun Shop in Riverdale, Illinois, sold 1,516 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 529 (approximately 35 percent) of these guns were recovered within three years of purchase. Chucks alone accounts for a whopping eight percent of the total number of guns that were recovered and traced to crimes in Chicago in the last five years.

Some thoughts:

• People commonly note that gun sales/ownership have increased and gun crime has decreased. I have yet to see any of them establish the veracity of there being a causal link between those two observations. I can see as well as the next person that both events seem like they should be more than just circumstantially related, but I have yet to see anything showing the relationship is anything more than circumstantial.
• People commonly note that "such and such" gun regulation would not have stopped "this or that" murderer/shooter, inferring, in turn, that "no" shooter/murderer would ever be stopped by that regulation. What they never bother to point out is how many shooters that very same regulation would have stopped, and, in turn, how many people would be alive/uninjured today were the regulation under discussion implemented. They posit the quantity of lives saved and shooters deterred is zero, but they never produce anything showing that to be so. In contrast, consider Christopher Pittman. Were guns illegal and the child's parents law abiding in accordance with that law, just where would he have come by a shotgun? Just how does one argue that the 256 minor who shot someone in 2015 would have done so were the law abiding adults around them to not own guns?
  
  
  
  Can one say that the adults in those children's lives were stupid, insouciant, "whatever?" Sure, but that just indicates they had no business with a gun any more than did the children whom they allowed to get hold of them. It's a responsible adult's burden/duty to secure their deadly weapons, guns among others, so that children don't get hold of them. So tell me, just how, short of enacting gun possession prohibitions, are we to guard against the glibness of otherwise law abiding adults? After a child around them has injured or killed another person with the adult's gun, it's a bit too late, isn't it?
  
  
• People commonly state that making guns harder to get or in some cases outright illegal to possess won't stop shooters because the shooters will merely buy guns illegally. What they fail to address is that the greater the quantity there is of legal guns available and/or in circulation, the greater quantity of guns that exist to be illegally "procured" from legal owners/sellers.

What one observes then is that repeatedly, while gun rights advocates have some sort of response to all manners of things, they routinely do not directly address those things that actually matter in the discussion of any given proposal for abating or curtailing gun-related deaths/violence. When all else fails, they revert to a Constitutional and SCOTUS line of argument. Even there, however, they again do not address the fact that neither the Founders nor any SCOTUS jurist aimed to create a situation in which one's right to bear arms contributes to citizens' involuntary injury and death.

Progressive "thought": something bad happened somewhere, therefore everyone needs to give up a key fundamental right!

Progressives have an awful track record once they disarm their citizens, the body count is over 100,000,000 people murdered by Progressive gungrabbing Fascists

Rather than mocking a solution idea you don't like, you can offer an alternative solution approach of your own.

Solution to what? Crime? What's the underlying problem you keep misidentifying?

Red:
You replied to my post; you tell me what be the underlying problems I've misidentified. You surely don't think I have the first idea what problem you think I've misidentified, do you? Read the solution options I discussed as ways to address the specific matters I discussed, and then offer your own solution idea(s) that're, in your opinion, better.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

Oh yeah, brother. 52K games, love the Grille 15. Been steadily picking up the Wn8. I offered Dodoma money to play my account for a month and get me into green territory, he laughed

Ha! Funny!
I still play 2-3 games per day; working on a Flakpanzer crew to move into the Emil.
Hard to play TDs these days in a medium-oriented game, unless you have a JTiger or 704 or somesuch..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

Oh yeah, brother. 52K games, love the Grille 15. Been steadily picking up the Wn8. I offered Dodoma money to play my account for a month and get me into green territory, he laughed

Ha! Funny!
I still play 2-3 games per day; working on a Flakpanzer crew to move into the Emil.
Hard to play TDs these days in a medium-oriented game, unless you have a JTiger or 704 or somesuch..

Yeah, that's why I like the Grille, you can get out of Dodge in a hurry. Also the flight time of the shell is just sick, it's the fastest in the game

I liked the Emil, it hulls down like a US heavy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

Oh yeah, brother. 52K games, love the Grille 15. Been steadily picking up the Wn8. I offered Dodoma money to play my account for a month and get me into green territory, he laughed

Ha! Funny!
I still play 2-3 games per day; working on a Flakpanzer crew to move into the Emil.
Hard to play TDs these days in a medium-oriented game, unless you have a JTiger or 704 or somesuch..

Yeah, that's why I like the Grille, you can get out of Dodge in a hurry. Also the flight time of the shell is just sick, it's the fastest in the game

I liked the Emil, it hulls down like a US heavy.

i fought and killed the new UK T-X TD the other day in my E75.
14mm turret armor? I could shave coaxed hm to death. Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Solution to what? Crime?

Clearly, the solution to crime is to pass laws that make it harder for the law abiding to exercise their rights.

Still playing WoT?

Oh yeah, brother. 52K games, love the Grille 15. Been steadily picking up the Wn8. I offered Dodoma money to play my account for a month and get me into green territory, he laughed

Ha! Funny!
I still play 2-3 games per day; working on a Flakpanzer crew to move into the Emil.
Hard to play TDs these days in a medium-oriented game, unless you have a JTiger or 704 or somesuch..

Yeah, that's why I like the Grille, you can get out of Dodge in a hurry. Also the flight time of the shell is just sick, it's the fastest in the game

I liked the Emil, it hulls down like a US heavy.

i fought and killed the new UK T-X TD the other day in my E75.
14mm turret armor? I could shave coaxed hm to death. Who thought that was a good idea?

Haven't see that one yet.
Love the E75, E100 is like 2 left feet for me

 

[2aguy]

• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003
  
• Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts -- One section of this analysis indicates that the legality of guns may not be a relevant factor.
  
• FFL NEWSLETTER
  
• Reducing Illegal Firearms Trafficking
  • As of July 1999, the National Crime Information Center database listed 2,341,023 stolen firearms (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1999)
• TRACING THE GUNS: THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL GUNS ON VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO
  • The largest out-of-state sources of Chicago’s illegal guns were Indiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin, which supplied 19 percent, 6.7 percent, and 3.6 percent of these crime guns, respectively. None of these states have laws that require background checks for purchasers who buy firearms at gun shows or on the Internet.
    
  • Although the majority of Chicago’s crime guns come from the other 49 states combined, between 2009 and 2013, just four local dealers supplied nearly 20 percent of the guns recovered at Chicago crime scenes. These stores – Chucks (Riverdale, IL), Midwest Sporting Goods (Lyons, IL), Shore Galleries (Lincolnwood, IL), and Westforth Sports, Inc. (Gary, IN)— are all within a short drive of Chicago and are the source of thousands of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago. By contrast, during that same time period, the average number of guns traced back to all other gun stores was three.
    
    Between 2009 and 2013, Midwest Gun in Lyons, Illinois, sold 659 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 333 (approximately 51 percent) of those firearms were recovered within three years of the original purchase at Midwest Gun. Chucks Gun Shop in Riverdale, Illinois, sold 1,516 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 529 (approximately 35 percent) of these guns were recovered within three years of purchase. Chucks alone accounts for a whopping eight percent of the total number of guns that were recovered and traced to crimes in Chicago in the last five years.

Some thoughts:

• People commonly note that gun sales/ownership have increased and gun crime has decreased. I have yet to see any of them establish the veracity of there being a causal link between those two observations. I can see as well as the next person that both events seem like they should be more than just circumstantially related, but I have yet to see anything showing the relationship is anything more than circumstantial.
• People commonly note that "such and such" gun regulation would not have stopped "this or that" murderer/shooter, inferring, in turn, that "no" shooter/murderer would ever be stopped by that regulation. What they never bother to point out is how many shooters that very same regulation would have stopped, and, in turn, how many people would be alive/uninjured today were the regulation under discussion implemented. They posit the quantity of lives saved and shooters deterred is zero, but they never produce anything showing that to be so. In contrast, consider Christopher Pittman. Were guns illegal and the child's parents law abiding in accordance with that law, just where would he have come by a shotgun? Just how does one argue that the 256 minor who shot someone in 2015 would have done so were the law abiding adults around them to not own guns?
  
  
  
  Can one say that the adults in those children's lives were stupid, insouciant, "whatever?" Sure, but that just indicates they had no business with a gun any more than did the children whom they allowed to get hold of them. It's a responsible adult's burden/duty to secure their deadly weapons, guns among others, so that children don't get hold of them. So tell me, just how, short of enacting gun possession prohibitions, are we to guard against the glibness of otherwise law abiding adults? After a child around them has injured or killed another person with the adult's gun, it's a bit too late, isn't it?
  
  
• People commonly state that making guns harder to get or in some cases outright illegal to possess won't stop shooters because the shooters will merely buy guns illegally. What they fail to address is that the greater the quantity there is of legal guns available and/or in circulation, the greater quantity of guns that exist to be illegally "procured" from legal owners/sellers.

What one observes then is that repeatedly, while gun rights advocates have some sort of response to all manners of things, they routinely do not directly address those things that actually matter in the discussion of any given proposal for abating or curtailing gun-related deaths/violence. When all else fails, they revert to a Constitutional and SCOTUS line of argument. Even there, however, they again do not address the fact that neither the Founders nor any SCOTUS jurist aimed to create a situation in which one's right to bear arms contributes to citizens' involuntary injury and death.

Look at the graphic in the quoted post above

Just what the hell is up with three year olds, or more appropriately, their parents/guardians? I'm sorry, but there is nothing in the world that will justify to me that three year olds should lead the minor population in the actus rea of gun shootings. To say nothing of 2, 3, and 4 year old toddlers shooting/killing more people than do 15, 16 and 17 year olds. And there are actually folks who have the temerity to tell me that the parents of those "terrifying" toddlers should be permitted to exercise their 2nd Amendment right.

I'm sorry, the toddlers, though they have no business getting hold of a gun, is not to blame and has no ability to exercise a 2nd Amendment right. The adults around them are to blame, and clearly they lack the maturity to have been allowed to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. I'm sorry, but there is nothing in the world one can say that can rationally account for an adult allowing a toddler to (1) get hold of a gun and (2) fire the thing at someone (or the child itself) and kill or injure them.

I mean really...come the "F" on! How does one have the audacity to defend the right to bear arms when one has nary the faintest glimmer of an enforceable and 99% reliable proposal for how to stop toddlers' supervising adults from allowing the kids to get hold of a gun, to say nothing of shooting it at someone?

Those 3 year olds........I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass....they are not the children of normal families who own guns...they live in inner cities ruled by drugs and gang violence....so if you want to save their lives.......then you have to fix the single, teenage mother problem in this country.....

And again....I wouldn't trust Everytown........go to the CDC.....

 

[2aguy]

It's a simple question. Where do guns used in crimes come from? westwall mentioned in another thread

The reality is that gun laws only keep guns out of the hands of the law abiding. Period end of story. Mexico has some of the harshest laws in the world and every drug thug has a machinegun. Clearly they don't work. So, what does? Putting violent criminals behind bars forever. In Chicago they have 150,000 KNOWN gangbangers. There is a fairly small percentage of those (around 10%) that are incredibly violent. the KNOW who these guys are, and they continuously let them out to prey on their victims.

Let's do one thing that we know works. If you murder someone you go to jail FOREVER.

So we need to discuss the issue.

In our country as many have said theft, straw purchase and so on. Guns are just avaliable. My first gun was given to me. It was a Kragen Jorganson rifle that was painted gray and used to prop a door open. This is a gun country so guns are everywhere legal and otherwise. This is why a ban will never do anything to change gun crime. What I find interesting is that with Mexico in the southwest, and Cuba off in the south east, is that there is not a flood of illegal full auto commi made AK 47's and such on the streets. All through the Caribbean islands and into South America there is a strong market in smuggled military grade weapons. Wonder why the chips and Bloods and MS 13 haven't taken to using those instead.

That's easy.......full size rifles are hard to conceal in your baby momma's purse or under the seat of your stolen car.......our criminals are very practical...they have to conceal their weapons so they prefer pistols........the gangs in Mexico...who work with the police and military don't have to hide their guns....so they use military weapons from Europe, China and the Mexican government.

 

[320 Years of History]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

Just put 2aguy on the memo line. I'll be sure to have them keep an eye open for it.

 

[2aguy]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

sorry...I have run the numbers.......accidental gun deaths of children are down...from the CDC......not from bloom ergs anti gun group......

 

[2aguy]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

Just put 2aguy on the memo line. I'll be sure to have them keep an eye open for it.

So....here you have the actual hard number...from the CDC.......

WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports

2014.....

Accidental gun deaths of children...up to 14....in a country with over 357,000,000 guns, and 74.2 million children....

Age 1-4......22

Age 5-9....14

Age 10-14... 12

Total: 48

2013 Total for the same ages.... 69

So the accidental gun death total from 2013-2014 went down by 21 children....as gun ownership went up...twit.

For 2013.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39

Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)[/QUOTE]

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

It is already against the law to straw purchase a firearm or illegally obtain one, so how many more laws do you need?

Supreme Court Rules Against Gun 'Straw Purchases'

 

[2aguy]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

Just put 2aguy on the memo line. I'll be sure to have them keep an eye open for it.

And if the home life of almost all of the children killed by accidental gun use were available...you can make your payment to the #1 gun safety organization that works to actually keep children safe, the NRA..........

Another thing you can do.....tell your anti gun buddies to stop fighting gun safety education for kids......the kind that keeps them alive.....they fight it every step of the way......

 

[2aguy]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

Just put 2aguy on the memo line. I'll be sure to have them keep an eye open for it.

You misidentified that group.....they don't want to stop gun violence they want to end private ownership of guns......big difference.....nothing they promote actually stops gun violence.......

 

[320 Years of History]

I would take any bet that those children are the children of 16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass

Since you'd "take any bet," let's be reasonable and call it $50.

• Mother fatally shot by two-year-old son from the back seat of car in Milwaukee
  
• 4-YEAR-OLD FLORIDA BOY SHOOTS MOTHER IN THE BACK
  
• 2-year-old boy took gun from mother’s purse, fatally shot himself
  • Kanisha Shelton, 23, was charged with neglect of a dependent resulting in death after police say her son found a gun in her purse and fatally shot himself last month.
• 3-year-old killed in accidental shooting in Paulding County

That's a bet you lose, and here's the address to which you can remit your check or money order:

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
805 15th Street NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005​

sorry...I have run the numbers.......accidental gun deaths of children are down...from the CDC......not from bloom ergs anti gun group......

Run all the numbers you want. None of them will make the those toddlers (and specifically the three year olds) noted in the links I provided the children of "16 year old baby mamas of our criminal underclass."

Does this Paulding County family referred to in the fourth link look like members of any "underclass" to you?

This is the mother of the four year old. She was a staunch and outspoken (albeit, as is typical of "gunnies," loud, strong and wrong) gun-rights advocate.

She doesn't look like a member of any "underclass" to me.