CDZ Where Do Guns Used In Crimes Come From?

[Fenton Lum]

The gun as a fetish in american society is more sacred than life, any who question anything are blasphemers.

 

[defcon4]

Try to buy a gun on the internet and see what happens and how that goes. Educate yourself.

It's easier to buy a gun on the Internet than it is to take out a book from the Library...or something

He thinks that way. Buying on the internet is same as buying in a gun shop. The left brainwashed these people.

 

[defcon4]

The gun as a fetish in american society is more sacred than life, any who question anything are blasphemers.

It is not a fetish and your stupid remark was unwarranted to have an intelligent conversation. Gun ownership is a RIGHT what is recognized by the U.S. Constitution. It is not a right granted by the U.S. Constitution but an unalienable right recognized by the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Howey]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

Try to buy a gun on the internet and see what happens and how that goes. Educate yourself.

Pennysaver has them all the time. No questions asked.

 

[320 Years of History]

• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003
  
• Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts -- One section of this analysis indicates that the legality of guns may not be a relevant factor.
  
• FFL NEWSLETTER
  
• Reducing Illegal Firearms Trafficking
  • As of July 1999, the National Crime Information Center database listed 2,341,023 stolen firearms (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1999)
• TRACING THE GUNS: THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL GUNS ON VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO
  • The largest out-of-state sources of Chicago’s illegal guns were Indiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin, which supplied 19 percent, 6.7 percent, and 3.6 percent of these crime guns, respectively. None of these states have laws that require background checks for purchasers who buy firearms at gun shows or on the Internet.
    
  • Although the majority of Chicago’s crime guns come from the other 49 states combined, between 2009 and 2013, just four local dealers supplied nearly 20 percent of the guns recovered at Chicago crime scenes. These stores – Chucks (Riverdale, IL), Midwest Sporting Goods (Lyons, IL), Shore Galleries (Lincolnwood, IL), and Westforth Sports, Inc. (Gary, IN)— are all within a short drive of Chicago and are the source of thousands of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago. By contrast, during that same time period, the average number of guns traced back to all other gun stores was three.
    
    Between 2009 and 2013, Midwest Gun in Lyons, Illinois, sold 659 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 333 (approximately 51 percent) of those firearms were recovered within three years of the original purchase at Midwest Gun. Chucks Gun Shop in Riverdale, Illinois, sold 1,516 guns that were used in crimes in Chicago, and 529 (approximately 35 percent) of these guns were recovered within three years of purchase. Chucks alone accounts for a whopping eight percent of the total number of guns that were recovered and traced to crimes in Chicago in the last five years.

Some thoughts:

• People commonly note that gun sales/ownership have increased and gun crime has decreased. I have yet to see any of them establish the veracity of there being a causal link between those two observations. I can see as well as the next person that both events seem like they should be more than just circumstantially related, but I have yet to see anything showing the relationship is anything more than circumstantial.
• People commonly note that "such and such" gun regulation would not have stopped "this or that" murderer/shooter, inferring, in turn, that "no" shooter/murderer would ever be stopped by that regulation. What they never bother to point out is how many shooters that very same regulation would have stopped, and, in turn, how many people would be alive/uninjured today were the regulation under discussion implemented. They posit the quantity of lives saved and shooters deterred is zero, but they never produce anything showing that to be so. In contrast, consider Christopher Pittman. Were guns illegal and the child's parents law abiding in accordance with that law, just where would he have come by a shotgun? Just how does one argue that the 256 minor who shot someone in 2015 would have done so were the law abiding adults around them to not own guns?
  
  
  
  Can one say that the adults in those children's lives were stupid, insouciant, "whatever?" Sure, but that just indicates they had no business with a gun any more than did the children whom they allowed to get hold of them. It's a responsible adult's burden/duty to secure their deadly weapons, guns among others, so that children don't get hold of them. So tell me, just how, short of enacting gun possession prohibitions, are we to guard against the glibness of otherwise law abiding adults? After a child around them has injured or killed another person with the adult's gun, it's a bit too late, isn't it?
  
  
• People commonly state that making guns harder to get or in some cases outright illegal to possess won't stop shooters because the shooters will merely buy guns illegally. What they fail to address is that the greater the quantity there is of legal guns available and/or in circulation, the greater quantity of guns that exist to be illegally "procured" from legal owners/sellers.

What one observes then is that repeatedly, while gun rights advocates have some sort of response to all manners of things, they routinely do not directly address those things that actually matter in the discussion of any given proposal for abating or curtailing gun-related deaths/violence. When all else fails, they revert to a Constitutional and SCOTUS line of argument. Even there, however, they again do not address the fact that neither the Founders nor any SCOTUS jurist aimed to create a situation in which one's right to bear arms contributes to citizens' involuntary injury and death.

 

[Wyatt earp]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

Jesus you can make your own guns and ammo.

 

[Ridgerunner]

320YoH wait till one of these sfb's question your sources... Nice post

 

[defcon4]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

Try to buy a gun on the internet and see what happens and how that goes. Educate yourself.

Pennysaver has them all the time. No questions asked.

What is Pennysaver? Here is a tip, go on to "Gunbroker" and see it for yourself how it goes. To whom the seller delivers your purchase? There are strict rules based on existing laws on internet purchases. Please do not display your total ignorance in the matter. Educate yourself before engaging in debates on subjects you know nothing about.

 

[Hiryuu]

• Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003

Thank you, that was an interesting read, and has a lot of common sense evaluations.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Jesus you can make your own guns and ammo.

Bear you are giving way to much credit to a large portion of society. Hell some of these folks have to have a recipe book to go through a drive thru at a fast food restaurant...

 

[Wyatt earp]

Jesus you can make your own guns and ammo.

Bear you are giving way to much credit to a large portion of society. Hell some of these folks have to have a recipe book to go through a drive thru at a fast food restaurant...

Really? I thought every one had a Bridgeport. a lathe and every known tool possible in their garage.

My gramps had them

My dad had them

I have them..

 

[Ridgerunner]

The tools can be replaced. The knowledge you have is irreplaceable.. Hope you have a understudy to pass this knowledge to...

 

[Wyatt earp]

Not necessarily I am still mad about a coworker stealing my favorite Armstrong 12 inch crescent wrench back it the 90s..

But you are right about passing on knowledge..my 19 year old daughter knows how to turn a wrench and most everything else she wanted to know.

 

[defcon4]

Not necessarily I am still mad about a coworker stealing my favorite Armstrong 12 inch crescent wrench back it the 90s..

 

[320 Years of History]

320YoH wait till one of these sfb's question your sources... Nice post

Thank you.

Okay...I'm used to folks refuting my references. I'm also used them to doing so, by and large, with nothing credible/cogent. (I can recall one person, off the top of my head, who sometimes offers substantive counterarguments.)

 

[Arianrhod]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

Apparently they're among the top items stolen in home break-ins.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Apparently they're among the top items stolen in home break-ins.

Drugs, Guns, Money and lawyers... In that order...

 

[2aguy]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

You can't......but you can arrest them when you catch them...just like any other crime.....you guys want guns treated differently.......

 

[2aguy]

theft, straw purchases, illegal purchases.

theft: Who do they steal them from? Legitimate gun owners?

straw purchase: Absolutely. Can laws be amended to preclude back room gun deals, internet sales, etc?

illegal purchases: See above. How else can we eliminate illegal purchases?

Here's how I see it:

1. There is NO WAY to stop ALL illegal gun sales.
2. Criminals will always have guns.
3. Police cannot be everywhere all the time.
4. The ONLY sane answer is to make it easier for law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Am I missing anything?

1. It will take years, maybe decades, but it will happen. After the assault weapon ban, murders by assault weapons fell dramatically.

2. Where do they get those guns?

3, That is a sad fact of life.

4. It's not working now, is it?

You would have to link to that because it isn't true...there was no change in deaths by rifles with detachable magazines during the ban...that's why no one care when it ended.......

In 34 years...rifles with detachable magazin s were used in mass public shootings and murdered 157 people......in 34 years......

Knives ...1,567 in just 2014.....and over 1,500 every single year......

You guys only care about these rifles because you have un addressed mental health issues....

 

[2aguy]

there are a lot floating around out there. we need to be doing more buy-back programs

Indeed


thousands of criminals are waiting for a local buy back program to get rid of their illegal firearms.

It's not all about the criminals. a legitimate gun owner may take advantage - someone that might otherwise have sold the gun to someone less reputable.

and yes, even criminals may take advantage. the point is if we can lower the number and availability of guns in problem areas qe can lower gun crime

And how do you do that? Right now criminals use the friend and family plan....they use baby momma's and grandmothers to buy their guns for them...often under threat of physical harm.....

Criminals do not trust buying from individuals they do not know.....so universal background checks beside being easily bypassed by the same straw buyers who can pass background checks at gun stores, will be avoided for fear of cops.....